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-   -   soundcloud non-free = rip-off? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-business/697791-soundcloud-non-free-rip-off.html)

Dubber 8th February 2012 11:28 PM

soundcloud non-free = rip-off?
 
i always thought soundcloud only charges for real premium features.

but even the free acc is limited to only 120 minutes upload time for tracks and a maximum of 100 download per track?!?! what the f..........!!!!

so i need at least an solo acc to offer unlimited downloads which is 9 €/month... and so I pay to let others download my tracks for free?!?!? wtf again..

what acc types do you use there and why?

dhollmusik 8th February 2012 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7541926)
i always thought soundcloud only charges for real premium features.

but even the free acc is limited to only 120 minutes upload time for tracks and a maximum of 100 download per track?!?! what the f..........!!!!

so i need at least an solo acc to offer unlimited downloads which is 9 €/month... and so I pay to let others download my tracks for free?!?!? wtf again..

what acc types do you use there and why?


I...ahem...am slightly ashamed to admit I have 2 active Soundclouds which are already full. They're all gear demos which are useful for other people to find, and I'm not earning anything from them. So I guess for now it's still morally ok for me to open a 3rd account.

I did want to open a paid-for account...until I saw the prices. It does seem a bit steep, especially as I'm not looking to promote myself, rather I just want to put loads of audio-demos of hardware gear out there for people looking to make gear decisions to check out.

What I will do is if and when I want to promote myself and my own proper music I will be happy to pay for the bandwidth and service Soundcloud provide, as it is a tool I'll be using for my own benefit.

Maybe you should consider why it is you're using Soundcloud, then you'll get the answer as to whether it's worth your money.


Alternative: bandcamp is free and very good.

Yoozer 8th February 2012 11:40 PM

You are paying far more if you want to host that yourself by conventional means and you have to link to a physical file while SoundCloud embedding is commonplace on various forums.

Bandwidth is cheap but not free. You want availability; you pay for it. Nothing strange about this.

Cheaper than that is dumping it on Youtube; but forget downloads in that case.

Dubber 8th February 2012 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoozer (Post 7541977)
Cheaper than that is dumping it on Youtube; but forget downloads in that case.

it's not cheaper - it's 100% free! ;)

download-urls can be placed directly below the video in the description box

Simonator 8th February 2012 11:46 PM

I'm sure it must cost them an absolute fortune in terms of the HUGE storage they need to keep (Just ONE 24 bit Wav can be well in excess of 100MB), then you've got the bandwidth + upkeep fees on top of that.

Seems to me like the free account is pretty ****ing generous.

If you really want more free download capacity, you could always stick the tune onto something like Rapidshare, then post the link in the tracks description & mention this in the Soundcloud track title-
DJ Funky Pants - Banging Tune (download link in description)

spaceacademy 8th February 2012 11:47 PM

Hmm, I have always thought they were to expensive for the space they offer users. But of course I acknowledge theres a community on there so if you want to pay for that then thats cool.

Simonator 8th February 2012 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542000)
download-urls can be placed directly below the video in the description box

Why don't you just do this on Soundcloud?

dhollmusik 8th February 2012 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoozer (Post 7541977)
Bandwidth is cheap but not free. You want availability; you pay for it. Nothing strange about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542000)
it's not cheaper - it's 100% free! ;)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542002)
I'm sure it must cost them an absolute fortune in terms of the HUGE storage they need to keep (Just ONE 24 bit Wav can be well in excess of 100MB), then you've got the bandwidth + upkeep fees on top of that.

Seems to me like the free account is pretty ****ing generous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceacademy (Post 7542007)
Hmm, I have always thought they were to expensive for the space they offer users. But of course I acknowledge theres a community on there so if you want to pay for that then thats cool.



For some mysterious reason the suggestion of Bandcamp is always ignored.

Let me try again:

- best streaming sound-quality on the web
- unlimited downloads at different qualities (MP3 or WAV's...Bandcamp do all the converting for you, just upload as WAV)
- nice-looking artist-page, split by albums
- no ads, no pro account
- you sell your songs/albums directly off your Bandcamp page, the money goes straight into your Paypal



How do Bandcamp survive? Bandcamp survive by taking a cut off your sales. Like Ebay or Amazon do if you sell your stuff with them.

Simple.

What Bandcamp doesn't offer is community, which they feel is unnecessary as your Bandcamp page is your artist page. If you want social interaction and promotion-within-community you've got Soundcloud, Youtube, Facebook, Reverb Nation and the rest. Bandcamp isn't competing with that. It's ostensibly competing with i-Tunes by empowering the artist to decide every aspect.


Read more here:

Frequently Asked Questions | Bandcamp

Dubber 8th February 2012 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542010)
Why don't you just do this on Soundcloud?

because it's not possible?! :)

Dubber 9th February 2012 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542043)
For some mysterious reason the suggestion of Bandcamp is always ignored.

i don't want another myspace-profile... i just want a player like soundcloud with a download option ready for boards like this

Ausgeno 9th February 2012 12:04 AM

Do any other sites display the track waveform and allow people to add comment markers along the track?

Simonator 9th February 2012 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542043)
For some mysterious reason the suggestion of Bandcamp is always ignored.

...


Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542043)
Simple.

What Bandcamp doesn't offer is community

Seems you answered that one yourself.




It absolutely beats the **** out of me why Soundcloud doesn't start direct sales like Bandcamp does... then you'd have the best of both worlds.


For me personally, I view Bandcamp at present as a place where artists who aren't signed can go & DIY it.
I know there are some signed & moderately successful artists on BC, I'm just saying that this is my perception, and I expect I'm not alone.
; Soundcloud is where I expect to find artists that I'm into, and via them, find other new artists.

Simonator 9th February 2012 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542048)
because it's not possible?! :)

What do you mean?

Why can't you just upload to Rapidshare, then post this link in the track's description, or in a comment, or both?

dhollmusik 9th February 2012 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542053)
i don't want another myspace-profile... i just want a player like soundcloud with a download option ready for boards like this

:facepalm:


all my words for nothing...

dhollmusik 9th February 2012 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542072)
For me personally, I view Bandcamp at present as a place where artists who aren't signed can go & DIY it.

Yes, that's pretty much it. And in my opinion it's the best place to go for that.

Community can be distracting abduction

boon 9th February 2012 12:16 AM

i like bandcamp. soundcloud is way too spendy and doesn't really offer that much imo.

community? whatever.. i don't find it that good for that.. i mean.. how many communities does one need? forums, facebook, twitter.. who cares if i can message someone on soundlcoud.. there's 100 different ways to get in touch with people and share tracks.. soundcloud is not relevant to me.

boon 9th February 2012 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542072)
For me personally, I view Bandcamp at present as a place where artists who aren't signed can go & DIY it.
I know there are some signed & moderately successful artists on BC, I'm just saying that this is my perception, and I expect I'm not alone.
; Soundcloud is where I expect to find artists that I'm into, and via them, find other new artists.

to me soundlcoud is a dumping ground. its like youtube w/o the videos. good for dj mixes though and for all kinds of demos of gear. there's a few things here or there that i come across but i hate looking around there. i don't like the interface. as a social environment it's pretty lousy i think. FB and twitter lead me to more music than soundcloud and soundcloud is full of music.. which is odd.

i think we'll see more and more artists going to bandcamp so long as they aren't tied to a label that doesn't allow them to do so. venetian snares even posted a new release there last month. there is more showing up there all the time.

edit: i guess the point is there are different things for everyone and we aren't all forced to use the same thing. so, options are good.

Simonator 9th February 2012 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542072)
I view Bandcamp at present as a place where artists who aren't signed can go & DIY it.

=

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542124)
Yes, that's pretty much it. And in my opinion it's the best place to go for that.

... Why would I want to go anywhere for second-rate unsigned music.

Most of the good releases appear on Soundcloud... and it's easy to just ignore all the other chaff. Bandcamp is seemingly 99.9% music that can't get signed.

Arthur Stone 9th February 2012 01:12 AM

Soundcloud is where it's happening (at the mo); I've met a lot of great people through it. I've got a paid account; if they intoduce some filtering options I might renew my subscription.

Dubber 9th February 2012 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542260)
Most of the good releases appear on Soundcloud... and it's easy to just ignore all the other chaff. Bandcamp is seemingly 99.9% music that can't get signed.

are you serious??? soundcloud is full of demos, snippets and unsigned tracks. even it's forbidden to upload releases that are registered at ascap, gema etc.

msl 9th February 2012 01:32 AM

I agree with Arthur. From what you describe, you should use youtube with p2p links in the description, and promote on FB.

I have a paid SC account for 2 years now. I use as a central place to store all my stuff, half of it is private, for me to send to people, labels, etc. I also use the players on my other sites... though i agree its too pricy atm.

Lots of good stuff and people on SC atm. I've got good contacts from radio, blogs, etc all through there, and a few vocalists too. Try that anywhere else...



.

dhollmusik 9th February 2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542260)
... Why would I want to go anywhere for second-rate unsigned music.

Most of the good releases appear on Soundcloud... and it's easy to just ignore all the other chaff. Bandcamp is seemingly 99.9% music that can't get signed.


Needlessly hyberbolic. 99.9% "second-rate"? Why do you post like this? It furthers nothing.


For me, I much enjoy Bandcamp more than Soundcloud for the pure pleasure of listening to new music for 4 key reasons:

- they are ordered into albums (and I for one enjoy listening to the classic album form)
- the wave-graphic isn't there (it's too tempting to skip the song when you're seeing the wave-graphic...Bandcamp's simple player system is more conducive to actually listening to the whole piece
- the audio quality is superior
- I've discovered more interesting unsigned artists on Bandcamp than Soundcloud.


A further advantage is without having to pay Bandcamp a fee you can lose the "bandcamp" part of the URL for your profile page.

Here's an example of that from one of my favourite Bandcamp discoveries (certainly not second-rate music and not something I would have found on Soundcloud):

Viandanze | Fabrizio Paterlini

Lute 9th February 2012 01:37 AM

Soundclick is free, try there. You can "friend" people there if you like. The forums are "lively" sometimes but it's all free. You can even build your own radio station if you want. They're a bit fussy about the files you upload, 128 MP3s are the norm but, if you pay, they're cool with higher rates. Pimp your page, etc, etc :cool:

Simonator 9th February 2012 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542352)
are you serious??? soundcloud is full of demos, snippets and unsigned tracks. even it's forbidden to upload releases that are registered at ascap, gema etc.

I've put ALL of my releases up there, and never had any issues with that so far.

Pretty much most of the artists I'm into have uploaded their releases to Soundcloud without issue too.

Are you talking about illegally pirating other people's music & uploading that?? Obviously you cant do that!!


Yes, on the point that there is loads of unsigned chaff up there... as I already said, it's easy to ignore. My point was that Bandcamp seems to be PRIMARILY unsigned chaff... with a hand-full of token famous artists... whereas it's normally a surprise to see that a successful house music producer DOES NOT have a Soundcloud page.

Simonator 9th February 2012 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msl (Post 7542385)
I agree with Arthur. From what you describe, you should use youtube with p2p links in the description, and promote on FB.

I have a paid SC account for 2 years now. I use as a central place to store all my stuff, half of it is private, for me to send to people, labels, etc. I also use the players on my other sites... though i agree its too pricy atm.

Lots of good stuff and people on SC atm. I've got good contacts from radio, blogs, etc all through there, and a few vocalists too. Try that anywhere else...



.

ALL OF THIS.

Private links are super handy.

audioconsult 9th February 2012 02:38 AM

its a bit naive to assume that a service like soundcloud is ther to help musicans.. of cause its there to milk them..

Dubber 9th February 2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542442)
I've put ALL of my releases up there, and never had any issues with that so far. Pretty much most of the artists I'm into have uploaded their releases to Soundcloud without issue too. Are you talking about illegally pirating other people's music & uploading that?? Obviously you cant do that!!

you didn't read my post carefully :) hint: ascap, mcps, biem, gema, ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542442)
Yes, on the point that there is loads of unsigned chaff up there...

99,9%... and "unsigned" is the wrong name for that... 99% of those tracks are crap that will hever get signed. it's just a big trashcan for newbies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 7542442)
it's normally a surprise to see that a successful house music producer DOES NOT have a Soundcloud page.

maybe but what did they post there? full-lenght-tracks? sure not! only promo snippets in bad quality and some dj mixes. example: http://soundcloud.com/maceoplex

i like soundcloud because of the waveform-player. but the community itself is just for business purposes (drop tracks to labels, connect to other producers or djs) because there are almost no ordinary people/fans who just listen to music or buy tracks.

dhollmusik 9th February 2012 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542634)
99% of those tracks are crap that will hever get signed. it's just a big trashcan for newbies.

Jesus wept...the rubbish being spouted just gets trashier.

Newbies have never even heard of Bandcamp :facepalm:


You guys stick to your Soundcloud, pay them their €90 a year or whatever it is...other musicians will stay true to the album form and use Bandcamp.


Everyone lives happily ever after. Apart from maybe the ones who decide to use Reverb Nation.

Simonator 9th February 2012 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542634)
you didn't read my post carefully :) hint: ascap, mcps, biem, gema, ...

I am reading your posts carefully... but they are perhaps somewhat ambiguous. Would you care to share your cryptic meanings that I am missing?

... You cannot upload a DJ mix of OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC onto Soundcloud because of issues with the mechanical rights collections agencies that you mentioned... is this what you are trying to say??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542634)
99,9%... and "unsigned" is the wrong name for that... 99% of those tracks are crap that will hever get signed. it's just a big trashcan for newbies.

I don't really understand what this sentence means.

AGAIN (for the THIRD time)... I accept that there is a [email protected] of HYPER-$HIT music on Soundcloud. I GET THAT!!!
What I'm saying is, it's EASY to avoid that, and there is ALSO music from virtually ALL of the artists that I like on there too....
COMPARATIVELY TO...
Bandcamp, which also has a vast majority of chaff... but only has a TINY MINORITY of the artists I like on there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542634)
maybe but what did they post there? full-lenght-tracks? sure not! only promo snippets in bad quality and some dj mixes.





Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubber (Post 7542634)
i like soundcloud because of the waveform-player. but the community itself is just for business purposes (drop tracks to labels, connect to other producers or djs) because there are almost no ordinary people/fans who just listen to music or buy tracks.

Agreed... it's great IMO.



You didn't answer why you said it's impossible to post a link for a downloadin the description/comments of your own track (?)

Simonator 9th February 2012 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542664)
Jesus wept...the rubbish being spouted just gets trashier.

Newbies have never even heard of Bandcamp :facepalm:

Was he talking about Bandcamp? I thought he was referring to Soundcloud... but his post was so nebulous that it's anyone's guess.


Quote:

Originally Posted by dhollmusik (Post 7542664)
You guys stick to your Soundcloud, pay them their €90 a year or whatever it is...other musicians will stay true to the album form and use Bandcamp.

I pay €29 per year for my SC page... mainly to get the feature of being able to replace uploads with updated versions (ie after mastering etc) without killing the first link & starting a new one.
But the free version is perfectly useable.

I have a Bandcamp page too. I don't really use it though.