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-   -   How to make Kicks/Bass BANG without distortion? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-and-production/657713-how-make-kicks-bass-bang-without-distortion.html)

MitchGeist 13th October 2011 06:56 PM

How to make Kicks/Bass BANG without distortion?
 
Whatsup everybody? I've been messing around a lot lately in my MPC 4000 trying to get the best kick sound I possibly can. I use primarily Croups Drums with a combination of some 808/lower frequency sounds throwed in for layers. I always use EQ and Compression and while these techniques work sometimes, I still haven't found what I'm looking for. I like the kind of kicks that sound natural but also have a lot of "oomph" in them, like Dre (of course!)

Thunderdan 13th October 2011 07:01 PM

try turning your kicks down and your speakers up...its really that easy

MitchGeist 13th October 2011 07:02 PM

I want my kicks to be able to bang when I have my speakers loud with no distortion. Otherwise they just sound flat and weak. I'm on KRK Rokit 6's

Thunderdan 13th October 2011 07:03 PM

right...try it out, you'll be surprised

David Ray 13th October 2011 07:08 PM

How to make Kicks/Bass BANG without distortion?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderdan
try turning your kicks down and your speakers up...its really that easy

It really is.

mgthefuture 13th October 2011 07:10 PM

Perspective.

As it's been suggested, if your kick is already near 0db, it can't go past that, or it will distort.

So if its at unity, and your speakers are turned up, and it's still flat...then your 808 sample is weak.

Now if it only does that when other instrumentation is in the way, then try turning some of those instruments down more.

Try hi pass filtering some things that may be masking the bass.

Try some parallel compression as well. Decapitator, Waves H Comp, etc etc

And last but not least, and surely not recommended for beginners...

Harmonic Exciters.

Like the ones on Ozone...you crank one of those up and you will feel your bass already.

Yet it has a tendency of being too much or throwing the balance of your mix off if you dont do it right.

And especially if you still tryna figure out how to make the low end solid.

So take your time, and learn it all.

MitchGeist 13th October 2011 07:11 PM

How would that change my kick? That's just changing the volume

MitchGeist 13th October 2011 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgthefuture (Post 7124091)
Perspective.

As it's been suggested, if your kick is already near 0db, it can't go past that, or it will distort.

So if its at unity, and your speakers are turned up, and it's still flat...then your 808 sample is weak.

Now if it only does that when other instrumentation is in the way, then try turning some of those instruments down more.

Try hi pass filtering some things that may be masking the bass.

Try some parallel compression as well. Decapitator, Waves H Comp, etc etc

And last but not least, and surely not recommended for beginners...

Harmonic Exciters.

Like the ones on Ozone...you crank one of those up and you will feel your bass already.

Yet it has a tendency of being too much or throwing the balance of your mix off if you dont do it right.

And especially if you still tryna figure out how to make the low end solid.

So take your time, and learn it all.

Good info. High pass filtering is something I've been using a lot.

WinnyP 13th October 2011 07:37 PM

Waves renaissance bass plugin, try it.

yosemitesam 13th October 2011 08:59 PM

...Are you really, really sure you don't want any distortion at all? It's a common modern style. And besides making your kick straight up louder, it will also add some higher frequency content, making your kick more present in the mix. Try adding just a dB or three of overdrive on your favorite plugin (I use Bitcrusher in Logic), and see if you really hate it or not. (Just make sure that you're accurately A/B testing the drum sounds--tweak the gain on the plugin to make sure that when you bypass the plugin, your kick is peaking at the same level that it is when the plugin is on.)

Especially on something like an 808--any 808 you've heard that's been prominent in the mix, it's had some kind of higher frequency content added, probably from overdrive. Part of the popularity of those drums is that they'll hold up even if you drive them, they can take a beating.

MitchGeist 13th October 2011 09:12 PM

Woops, guess I forgot to leave out I dont want CLIPPING. Lol, my kicks and bass have been colliding a lot despite me using all the above techniques. Distortion can sometimes give me a good result, but most of the time it just isn't the sound I'm looking for. Most of my drums clip pretty bad when I'm trying to make em slam just the right amount. I've tried everything, sorry for the confusion guys.

yosemitesam 13th October 2011 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchGeist (Post 7124563)
Woops, guess I forgot to leave out I dont want CLIPPING.

Actually I was talking about clipping as well. If you don't like it you don't like it, I use it a lot though.


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MitchGeist 13th October 2011 10:54 PM

Are there actually different types of clipping? Cause what I'm hearing sounds like a pop in the speakers and is just plain annoying everytime the kick hits at full velocity.

Thunderdan 13th October 2011 11:09 PM

if you'd just turn your levels down and your speakers up you'll never ever ever clip...try it out

symmetricalSound 13th October 2011 11:14 PM

give them the space they need.

mgthefuture 13th October 2011 11:16 PM

If you did all the above, then its your samples or envelopes.

SIXTWOFOUR 13th October 2011 11:17 PM

Try a DBX 500 Boom Box.

Cashby 14th October 2011 12:24 AM

Lots of Layering.

Take a couple main kicks, a couple Vinyl Kicks and Lo-Pass them at lower dB's, and then a good 808.

EQ the two main kicks and boost each frequency, the Low End most, the Low-Mids a hair, leave the Hi-Mids alone, and maybe even boost the High End for a little color.

Boost the low end of the 808 and turn that lower than the Lo-Passed kicks--and you'll have a good sounding, banging kick.

I'd also use Saturation and good Bass boosting plug ins (Waves Renaissance Bass for example)

G. Kaye 14th October 2011 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderdan (Post 7124068)
try turning your kicks down and your speakers up...its really that easy

I cant speak for the OP, but it sounds like maybe he wants his kicks to bang with speakers turned down as well.

If you listen to a Dre beat, the kicks are bangin and punchy no matter what volume.

If you turn up the volume all the way, any drum will bang, but listeners don't listen with the volume up all the way all the time. So you want to try to get that punchiness to come through even at lower volumes. Which is the hard part.

mista min 14th October 2011 01:10 AM

Pultec style EQ on the kick at 30 Hz or 60 Hz and turn it up.

And maybe use an L1 limiter on the 808 to smash the **** out of it.

Also, a tape emulation after the eq and compressor.kfhkh

UCTION 14th October 2011 01:12 AM

I think if you want it to bang regardless of volume you're going to need a sample that is punchier and fatter.

I'm a visual person so think about this visually. For example a kick soundwave that's really hard-hitting would cover not just the fundamental frequency for the boom, but it would occupy space in some mids and highs too for pow and snap (lol).

An easy way to solve your problems is to study others. Reverse engineer a kick you like that you wish to understand by using frequency analyzers. Keep the kick on loop and watch what frequencies go off, how wide the range of frequencies are and their volumes. Sweep an EQ filter on that kick and try to hear just the lows, just the mids, and then just the highs. You are in essence hearing each separate layer somewhat, and can recreate your own kick this way by understanding frequencies. Once you have the basic sound compress it a bit to even it out so you can turn up the level on the kick. After that, effects can be added like distortion, but you can easily weaken if you over do it.

I'm sure some will say this is a horrible way to make or study kicks, but I'm here to learn just as much as you are.

3rd Degree 14th October 2011 02:25 AM

Just a real quick, basic question. You mention your MPC 4000. Are you mixing on your 4000, processing your drums with it's effects, or just want them to "bang" during playback? The reason why I ask is if it's just playback, don't worry if you are just going to track to a daw. If you are processing your drums on your 4000, you may want to do it in a daw instead. And if you are mixing on your 4000, you will probably have a hard time competing with most new music. Whenever I use hardware, as long as I like the sounds well enough, I leave it be and do all my mixing in a DAW.


If you are just saying you use an MPC and are talking about mixing elsewhere, disregard this post.

Itsgrandzbaby 14th October 2011 02:41 AM

Turn everything else down!!

MitchGeist 14th October 2011 02:47 AM

Been mixing everything in the mpc

MitchGeist 14th October 2011 05:05 AM

Bump

beat you down 14th October 2011 08:25 AM

be easy on the lows and make everything else sound small.

WhiteLieMusic 14th October 2011 08:32 AM

+1 for turn everything down...try it, mixing low does wonders

yosemitesam 14th October 2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchGeist (Post 7124839)
Are there actually different types of clipping? Cause what I'm hearing sounds like a pop in the speakers and is just plain annoying everytime the kick hits at full velocity.

Boi 1da alludes to letting his drums clip in some interview I can't find now (he talks about just "turning his drums up louder" to get them to bang, and there are other videos where you can see his drum tracks are clearly clipping). I suspect that's also what's going on in this song (produced by Lex Luger):



Rather than actually letting the tracks clip, I use Bitcrusher and overdrive them in there, so the track isn't clipping and ****ing up the rest of my mix, only the drums are clipping. I used this technique on the drum bus in the track in my signature (which is in my first post on this page, higher up).

I might very well be using some of these terms wrong/be wrong about the details, but the point is, experiment and see what you come up with.

KT1 14th October 2011 12:37 PM

I suggest you do a little research into the differences of harmonic distortion and clipping.

In th old day both went hand in hand. This is not the case in the digital domain. Great posts in this thread - one in particular mentioned compression and then decapitator in the same sentence. Dont confuse this good advice - Decapitator is a distortion plug. It allows you to use harmonic distortion by simulating analogue clipping - beyond 0db threshold.

In my opinon Distortion is the first port of call when trying to bring harmonic content to a kick drum. It is a staple of my drum engineering - more so than compression. In fact i rarely use compression on a kick. Ocassionally i will apply some comp to the drum buss but rare. When recording audio (live drums) i may use comp on way in...

I think distortion may be exactly what you're looking for. Please do not ignore the advice in this thread. Not only is it the answer to your problem but many suggestions made to improve.

Your next response should be ok ( here is original audio - here is with comp - here is with distortion) then we can take next steps.

Another very important point is wuality of the sample. Audio is King. If your sample is not the best to start with you will need significantly more work to bring it into line IMO.

Best of luck


The ideas page - Www.soundcloud.com/moo-10

KT1 14th October 2011 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mista min (Post 7125253)
Pultec style EQ on the kick at 30 Hz or 60 Hz and turn it up.

And maybe use an L1 limiter on the 808 to smash the **** out of it.

Also, a tape emulation after the eq and compressor.kfhkh

I like the 100 htz in the pultec emulations! the 60 is nice for bringing out that 100 thump for sure. I like the sound of the Puig by waves in particular. Great on kicks.