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Midlandmorgan 30th May 2003 05:46 PM

Bubba Does Punk
 
As some of you know, West Texas is mostly hispanic or country music...until last night...had an opportunity to work with a thrash punk band (yes...we had to move the banjo...) and it was ... interesting to say the least.

With that, anyone offer any insights to getting "THE" sound, mix wise, for this kind of stuff? Country and Americana techniques would be a little out of place, I believe....Vocal ideas, compression, and so forth (got some pretty good tracks; just not sure what to do with them!)

All ideas welcomed...

Ken

BTW: during the course of the session, there were 2 domestic quabbles, one fist fight between the guitar and bass guys, and so on...is this
normal , or did I just get really lucky?

imacgreg 30th May 2003 07:00 PM

Re: Bubba Does Punk
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Midlandmorgan

BTW: during the course of the session, there were 2 domestic quabbles, one fist fight between the guitar and bass guys, and so on...is this
normal , or did I just get really lucky?

No blood spilt? No drunken rages? Man you got off easy... cooge

As far as sound goes,
Everyone is gonna want to be the loudest in the mix, but I guess that is sorta normal. Don't be afraid to be aggresive with compression, you really want the drums to pop and smack. (whatever that means...) People's definitions of music styles can be different, but one of my favorite records of all time that I would consider thrash punk is Refused's "The shape of punk to come". It's huge and super tight. The guitars are rediculously huge but you never really lose anything.

ian

XHipHop 30th May 2003 09:41 PM

Re: Re: Bubba Does Punk
 
Quote:

Originally posted by imacgreg
..one of my favorite records of all time that I would consider thrash punk is Refused's "The shape of punk to come".
ian

What a rediculously good album.

But, you have to explain what these guys sound like a little more. While bands like Refused and I guess Finch are considered 'hardcore', their productions are super clean and definitely not the punk rock norm. Unless you are talking about the MTV definition of punk rock.

The best bet is to ask them for some cds for reference of productions they like.

If they are more street or gutter punk (aka: leather jackets, smell bad, have fake british accents) maybe Jay can give you some tips because i see he recorded Blanks 77 and they fit that mold.

Other than the Refused record above, I think some of Rancid's records are benchmarks for what punk rock should sound like so maybe you should check those out.

subspace 30th May 2003 10:42 PM

Yeah, gotta get a little more specific about what "school" of punk this is. Mixing an emo punk record with lots of Mesa/ Marshall layers, catchy harmonies, drums that go clickety-clack, plus the occasional cello arrangement, is a whole different thing than mixing some "old school" live punk record. Last one of those I did, we cut the vocal live on a hand-held 57, right in front of the kit and used a heap of distortion on it at mix. The guitar was an L.A. Metal pedal into a V4 with a 57 pre-amped through a Series 80 mic pre, full-on clipping. Most of the drum sound came from a 57 right above the kick, pointed at the drummers crotch, compressed ridiculously. The bass we didn't touch, it sounded like crap on it's own, but not surprisingly fit right in at mix... Bottom rolled off everything, no discernible effects, a dirty little punk rock record...

Midlandmorgan 31st May 2003 12:54 AM

Well...there are some fake Cockney accents, and the music sounds sort of like a cross between Johnny Rotten and Gawd-Knows-What...in actually a decent way...

Guitar: Indonesian strat copy thru a DOD distortion of some sort, into a Peavey Studio Pro amp at max gain/low volume...hummed like an old girlfriend...

Bass: Cheaper Indonesian P-Bass thru a DOD bassfuzz, direct...

I've been 'listening' to the local alternative (why do they call it that when everyone is doing it? but that's another thread) to get some ideas, although I have no clue who the reference artists were...BUT: clients are estatic thus far, and their deposit check cleared, so we're in good shape...

They left about 30 minutes ago - its been Bob Wills and Hank Thompson since they left..."Six-Pack To Go" at 92 dB...YEAH, BABY!

Thanks for the help!

Jay Kahrs 31st May 2003 01:01 AM

I could write a whole book on recording punk, it's paid for most of the gear in my studio. Within punk there are lots of various sub-genres. There's hardcore punk like the Cro-Mags, gutter punk like the Blanx 77, pop-punk like Green Day, skater punk, emo, etc. You name it and I've probably worked on it and insulted a band by calling it the wrong sub-genre. shiee

Anywhoo... Ask the band for referance discs. Don't be afraid to use EQ and compression. Lots of it. On everything. The key is to make everything the loudest thing in the mix and the only way to do that is to hack things up and have things sound ugly when soloed. You'll probably **** it up. I know I hacked up a bunch of my early punk recordings. It's not a bad thing though. Some of the bands are just happy to hear themselves on tape and it doesn't matter if it doesn't sound good. They think that lo-fi is good and they don't want things too slick and polished.

As much as the bands will hate it get a Green Day CD, either Dookie or the one that came after it, I forget the name but it's the one I have. Most of the MXPX and Pennywise CD's also sound really good and are worth a spin.

archtop 2nd June 2003 07:39 PM

Distortion(the good tube kind) is your friend.Tuff stuff to mix,(too much,too fast,usually not the best players,Ibet the drummer hits the cymbays too hard and compromises the sound of ALL the drum mic's((my continuing soapbox topic)).

Good Punk senario:
Analog
Live minus vocal's(scratch O.K.)
Overdub vox,solo's
Mix:
Distortbass w/ any old tube pre
peg the low mid that works for that guitar, 400? 500?800? salt the top(6k ish) to taste .
GTR one hard left, GTR two hard right,(if no GTR two, suggest it)
very dry (wich mean's sneak in very small room or plate w/ out really anouncing it ).



The Steve Adamek's simple mixing tip "Make everything louder than everything else"

Jay Kahrs 5th June 2003 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Midlandmorgan
Well...there are some fake Cockney accents, and the music sounds sort of like a cross between Johnny Rotten and Gawd-Knows-What...in actually a decent way...

Guitar: Indonesian strat copy thru a DOD distortion of some sort, into a Peavey Studio Pro amp at max gain/low volume...hummed like an old girlfriend...

Bass: Cheaper Indonesian P-Bass thru a DOD bassfuzz, direct...

Try guitar hard right or left with a bit of verb or a slight doubling delay on the other side. The bass maybe a little off center, 1 o'clock or so. Shoot for something like the Sex Pistols record and you should be pretty close to decent. Just make sure the kick and snare come through, not too many cymbals. Compress the hell out of the lead vocal if it's not consistant. Sprinkle a general verb to taste, print mix, collect money.

mdbeh 5th June 2003 04:07 AM

If you can get them to go along with it, you might try doubling the Strat with some sort of Les Paul-ish guitar with humbuckers. It can be tough to get it thick enough with just single coils.

Midlandmorgan 5th June 2003 12:46 PM

Thanks for the tips, y'all...this is what we've done thus far...

- Ran guitar track copies through Revalver to get 3 completely different tones, then blended to get a very bottom heavy Recto-sound...added a touch of slap echo to one track.

- Compressed each vocal track, then compressed the vox submix

- Essentially dry vox...a bit a room simulator added to only one voice to act as reverb for entire vocal tracks...

- Drums the hard part...2 kicks, both identical...massive eq to one side to give impression there were 2 different kinds of drums...snare with a hi rolloff to give more 'oomph' less 'snap' (techno-speak...)

- Endorphined half to death...twice...tried to eq off anything over 18K...

So far, its actually decent.

Jay Kahrs 6th June 2003 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Midlandmorgan
- Drums the hard part...2 kicks, both identical...massive eq to one side to give impression there were 2 different kinds of drums...snare with a hi rolloff to give more 'oomph' less 'snap' (techno-speak...)

If the player has two identical kicks are you sure they aren't supposed to be identical like a traditional double bass setup? If it is and you treat them as two different drums you might piss off the player.

Midlandmorgan 6th June 2003 02:16 AM

That was my first question...the drummer had 2 kicks, with two identical sets of toms...and said she (!!!) wanted them to sound differently...Neither kick had any ports on the front skins....made things pretty interesting...

Jay Kahrs 9th June 2003 05:40 PM

Interesting. What did you end up doing?

Midlandmorgan 9th June 2003 11:44 PM

End result...two kiks EQ'd radically different...really helped that one was done with a 10" speaker, the other with a 57 and Oktava 319 in tandem...set them up as a low gain affair and made up the gain in DAW...panned to 11 and 1...o'heads at 9 and 3, snare dead center...

Big big big sounding set...compressed, then convoluted with a touch of .75 sec reverb...after doing all this, tweaking, copying, and adding bottom to gtr...I actually kinda like it...