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-   -   Orpheus got me confused (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/440997-orpheus-got-me-confused.html)

chrisdee 18th November 2009 12:15 AM

Orpheus ?
 
I'm a bit confused when it comes to the Prism Orpheus. For weeks I'v been reading up on posts about this soundcard here on GS. About 99% of the time positiv reviews and feedback from GS users.

What confuses me is that I have called stores all a cross the country where I live, and nobody reccomends it. Most say it's great sounding, but don't reccomend buying a $6000 dollar soundcard, but say I should rather use the money on a high quality preamp instead.

I'v also been told that it needs it's own firewire bus to function stable. I'v also been told that the mixer is complicated, and it's not straight forward to use it in DAW's. On the other hand many users on this thread say the complete oposite.

I'v been searching for a new solution at work to replace the 2 years old Focusrite Saffire Pro40 soundcard (wich in my opinion has a terrible mixer with I cant understand).

After listening to my local music store (wich has been on inspection at the studio at work) we landed on a Focusrite ISA 428 (w/digital card) wich will be going into the Saffire though ADAT. The sales rep thought this would be the best solution for our needs. Our needs by the way is to record people reading in the university phonetics recording studio. The recording will later be analysed.

But as I said, Im confused if I'v choosen the right solution and why there are so conflicting reccomendations reguarding the Prism Sound Orpheus ?

chrisdee 18th November 2009 12:19 AM

Could it be that the store simply doesnt se the need for the orpheus at our work setting and rather reccomends a good neutral preamp instead ?

Soundgeeza 18th November 2009 11:36 AM

Orpheus is not suitable for every application or situation, but then again, is ANY piece of gear?

For your needs, I would say that Orpheus has 4 perfect mic pre-amps and they ARE very good quality pre's ...

I have also read that people have had problems running extra devices on the same Firewire bus. This doesn't matter in my world as Orpheus is the only thing that I use on Firewire, so I can't comment.

The mixer software really isn't THAT complicated and you really shouldn't worry about that being an issue in making your decision.

I've said it before and I'll say it again .. this is probably one of the best investments that I have ever made in my modest studio. I have never once regretted buying it...

It might be worth checking out Funky Junk (Pro Audio Europe), as they may be able to supply you with one cheaper than you can get one in Norway. I have NO affiliation with Funky Junk, it's just that I bought mine there and they have a great price on them, so even with postage, you may get a good deal!

Good luck with which ever way you go...

Cheers

creative.control 18th November 2009 12:11 PM

That sounds like very strange advise indeed, converters should really be a higher concern that preamps when your starting from the foundations and the onboard preamps on the Orpheus are ISA league (I actually prefer them).

Yep everyone hates firewire, but the Orpheus is pretty stable. it glitches occasionally but that's probably down to generally firewire flakeyness then the actual unit, but I've never had to stop a session for longer than a minute, to do a quick hard reset on the Orpheus (pull the mains cable out, wait 10 seconds, put in back in), this happens 1 time out of 30 perhaps.

The mixer is a complete doddle to use, I can't see what the fuss is about, if people are constantly using complex DAW systems they should really have no trouble at all with the Orpheus' mixer, the manual is very well written and layed out too if you need guidance.

chrisdee 18th November 2009 01:32 PM

Thanks for answersthumbsup

Well, I'm the only technical person on the department so for me this is probably not a problem. I'v been using ProTools for about 3 years. However the people that will be using it are non technical people wich basically only want a simple one click record solution.

It somewhat worries me that you say you have problems 1 out of 30 times. In the settings we work people do recordings up to one hour in lenght. If would be a big problem if something where to go wrong after one hour and they have to start reading and recording all over again.

Although I'v had my eye on the Orpheus for months and really want a one in all solution stability is the most important thing. It's got to work 100% of the time. I cant expect non technical users to restart the unit and disconnect the power 1 out of 30 times.

chrisdee 18th November 2009 01:47 PM

I guess maby a DA converter like for example the Rosetta 800 would be an better option for these kind of settings.?

Lab of Sound 18th November 2009 09:04 PM

Could it be possible that the music stores you contacted lack experience with the Orpheus, and rather want to sell you something they either have in stock or is easier for them to order? Have you contacted LydRommet ? They should be able to help you out because they carry the Prismsound brand. IMO, you cannot go wrong with the Orpheus. It is versatile, and the mixer is very easy to use.

Cheers,

Jack

Silver Sonya 19th November 2009 12:58 AM

Mixer?

It's just a converter.

And it's amazing.

Has fantastic on-board mic preamps and a really nice DI.

Ignore the clowns you've been talking to.

- c

chrisdee 19th November 2009 01:03 AM

At one store they called a orpheus user and checked, and at another store they have tested the orpheus against ansamble and metric halo and others.

Silver Sonya 19th November 2009 01:23 AM

You are dealing with clowns.

- c

Alndln 19th November 2009 02:08 AM

Does his spoken word phonetics needs require high end converters/pres? Or is that overkill for the application.

drbob1970 19th November 2009 10:22 AM

Hi!
in my experience, the glitches with the Orpheus happens at startup. In my case, once I'm up and running, I've never had any problem even in day-long sessions. Moreover, even if the Orpheus would glitch at some point, you wouldn't have to re-record everything, all the work up to that point would be saved in your DAW.

As far as the price is concerned, I would also advice you to contact Funky Junk UK. This is where I bought mine, and it was about 3000 Euro (about 24000 NOK by now I suppose). Norway is definitely not the cheapest place to buy this type of equipment.

Are you at NTNU?
Best regards
Eric
peachh

pdiddy boy 19th November 2009 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya (Post 4798526)
You are dealing with clowns.

- c

I co-sign that comment...

I'm the proud owner of a Prism Sound Orpheus sound card connected to a Mac Pro 2x2.8 running Logic Pro 8. It is absolutely the best ever sounding converters I have even heard period. I periously owned an apogee duet and ensemble both excellent units by the way... but not in the league of the Orpheus. The drivers have never let me down either. Seriously your plugins come alive with great converters.

chrisdee 19th November 2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbob1970 (Post 4799761)
Hi!
in my experience, the glitches with the Orpheus happens at startup. In my case, once I'm up and running, I've never had any problem even in day-long sessions. Moreover, even if the Orpheus would glitch at some point, you wouldn't have to re-record everything, all the work up to that point would be saved in your DAW.

As far as the price is concerned, I would also advice you to contact Funky Junk UK. This is where I bought mine, and it was about 3000 Euro (about 24000 NOK by now I suppose). Norway is definitely not the cheapest place to buy this type of equipment.

Are you at NTNU?
Best regards
Eric
peachh


Yes, I work at NTNU.

At one store here in norway they sell it for kr.40 000. Thats about $6000 dollars. Kr.24000 is about $3500. Even with taxes is cost over $2000 more here.

chrisdee 19th November 2009 03:58 PM

I wonder in wich country it's cheapest to buy high-end gear.

matt thomas 19th November 2009 04:18 PM

Although I have to say, there is nothing wrong with the solution of the focusrite ISA that you now have

matt

UrgentMW 19th November 2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdee (Post 4793933)
What confuses me is that I have called stores all a cross the country where I live, and nobody reccomends it. Most say it's great sounding, but don't reccomend buying a $6000 dollar soundcard, but say I should rather use the money on a high quality preamp instead.

Your 1st question to any of the stores should be "do you have it in stock?"

No store on the planet is going to recommend a preamp over a $6000 non-mainstream interface if they have it in stock, even if it sounds horrible; they're going to try to unload it all costs. You can be in the store looking for an XLR cable and they'll recommend the Prism Orpheus.

As far as sound quality goes, I'm very familiar with Focusrite products (I've a Saffire Pro and Lite, and a Liquid Mix) The Apogee Duet was a huge step up in sound quality from the Saffire Pro. The Prism Orpheus' sound quality will bring tears to your eyes if you compare it to a Saffire Pro. The question is, do you really need that level of quality to record speech?

Forget the driver issues you've heard about because they've mostly been sorted. The stores are not recommending it because they either don't know exactly what it is or they don't have it in stock. Probably both.

pdiddy boy 19th November 2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrgentMW (Post 4800691)
The Apogee Duet was a huge step up in sound quality from the Saffire Pro. The Prism Orpheus' sound quality will bring tears to your eyes if you compare it to a Saffire Pro. The question is, do you really need that level of quality to record speech?

That is the question... for speech I would say the Prism Orpheus is an over kill and the Apogee Duet or Ensemble would probably meet your needs. However if money is no object... Prism Orpheus is the clear winner !

chrisdee 20th November 2009 12:17 AM

It sounds like the Orpheus is a better option for my home studio where I actually make music:)

25ghosts 20th November 2009 03:05 AM

As a matter of fact I have just finished testing the two units(ULN-8 Orpheus) against each other.

Metric Halo's preamps are superior to the ones from Prism. Period. With that you wont need to invest in an external Pre. The ULN has 8.
Converter wise, you've gotta be a super bat to hear the difference. Both are excellent.
The ULN-8 comes with some pretty nice plugs which are integrating smoothly via the very nice MIO Console concept.

Both are awesome interfaces but I would choose the ULN-8 over the Prism any day. If doing native recording. The DReam series from Prism I would choose before the ULN-8 for PT HD system if planning on integrating it into PT. ULN-8 and Orpheus cannot be integrated into PT in a smooth manor.

Lab of Sound 20th November 2009 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya (Post 4798427)
Mixer?

It's just a converter.
- c

The Orpheus has onboard digital mixer functionality that is software controlled via the Orpheus control panel.

Lab of Sound 20th November 2009 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdee (Post 4800385)
Yes, I work at NTNU.

At one store here in norway they sell it for kr.40 000. Thats about $6000 dollars. Kr.24000 is about $3500. Even with taxes is cost over $2000 more here.

You should be able to find one for 3000-3200 euros (including tax), especially after Prism lowered the price a few months ago.

pdiddy boy 20th November 2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya (Post 4798427)

It's just a converter.

- c

It has a built in Midi Interface ! jummpp

chrisdee 20th November 2009 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 25ghosts (Post 4802853)
As a matter of fact I have just finished testing the two units(ULN-8 Orpheus) against each other.

Metric Halo's preamps are superior to the ones from Prism. Period. With that you wont need to invest in an external Pre. The ULN has 8.
Converter wise, you've gotta be a super bat to hear the difference. Both are excellent.
The ULN-8 comes with some pretty nice plugs which are integrating smoothly via the very nice MIO Console concept.

Both are awesome interfaces but I would choose the ULN-8 over the Prism any day. If doing native recording. The DReam series from Prism I would choose before the ULN-8 for PT HD system if planning on integrating it into PT. ULN-8 and Orpheus cannot be integrated into PT in a smooth manor.

This is interresting. I'm a Pro Tools user for just over 3 years now. I'v used a long time to learn PT and I have no plan to switch DAW. If Orpheus cannot be integrated into PT in a smooth manor then it is pretty much ruled out.

chrisdee 20th November 2009 01:38 PM

Seems like I'v made the right choice buying the ISA428 for work.
Thanks guy'skfhkh

wildpark 20th November 2009 01:59 PM

and a field mixer setting
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4803948)
It has a built in Midi Interface ! jummpp


pdiddy boy 20th November 2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdee (Post 4804040)
Seems like I'v made the right choice buying the ISA428 for work.
Thanks guy'skfhkh

Great ! You made the right choice... "for you" ! Well done !

25ghosts 20th November 2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdee (Post 4804037)
This is interresting. I'm a Pro Tools user for just over 3 years now. I'v used a long time to learn PT and I have no plan to switch DAW. If Orpheus cannot be integrated into PT in a smooth manor then it is pretty much ruled out.

Not just the Orpheus integrates badly into protools. The ULN-8 as well. ANY core audio interface integrates horrible with Protools.

I am on HD so I dont have any problems getting nice converters with HD interfaces like Prisms Dream, Lynx, Apogee etc.

If I had to choose a core audio interface it would be the ULN-8... Reason mainly is the preamps. They are really really really great. Besides that I really like the (takes getting used to) MIO concept. And the Channel Strip PI does not need any further props, its simply put one of the best sounding digital EQs I've ever heard and very versatile too.

mh_bj 20th November 2009 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 25ghosts (Post 4805174)
Not just the Orpheus integrates badly into protools. The ULN-8 as well. ANY core audio interface integrates horrible with Protools.

I am on HD so I dont have any problems getting nice converters with HD interfaces like Prisms Dream, Lynx, Apogee etc.

If I had to choose a core audio interface it would be the ULN-8... Reason mainly is the preamps. They are really really really great. Besides that I really like the (takes getting used to) MIO concept. And the Channel Strip PI does not need any further props, its simply put one of the best sounding digital EQs I've ever heard and very versatile too.

Well -- there is a difference between the ULN-8 and the Orpheus for PT integration. The ULN-8 has 8 channels of AES, so you can use it just like any other stand-alone converter at all sample rates with PT HD (via AES). The Orpheus cannot do this (obviously other Prism products can, and the Dream ADA also has the reverse-engineered PTHD I/O card available so you don't need AES for that usage). Also, the ULN-8 has ConsoleConnect as a PT plugin, so you can integrate the control and processing in the interface into your PT session. So, while I would agree that you can't simply use the ULN-8 as direct interface for PT, I would have to disagree that its integration is horrible; unlike most CA interfaces, it does not rely on CA to get audio through the box and things like PT integration were a consideration when we designed it.

Just my 2c

wildpark 22nd November 2009 10:29 PM

well in a smalish pro setup,its a set and forget.
if you need more protoolsish comfort !
go with the bigger prism and a hd card
Quote:

Originally Posted by mh_bj (Post 4805543)
Well -- there is a difference between the ULN-8 and the Orpheus for PT integration. The ULN-8 has 8 channels of AES, so you can use it just like any other stand-alone converter at all sample rates with PT HD (via AES). The Orpheus cannot do this (obviously other Prism products can, and the Dream ADA also has the reverse-engineered PTHD I/O card available so you don't need AES for that usage). Also, the ULN-8 has ConsoleConnect as a PT plugin, so you can integrate the control and processing in the interface into your PT session. So, while I would agree that you can't simply use the ULN-8 as direct interface for PT, I would have to disagree that its integration is horrible; unlike most CA interfaces, it does not rely on CA to get audio through the box and things like PT integration were a consideration when we designed it.

Just my 2c