Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   The Moan Zone (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/the-moan-zone/)
-   -   The DAW controller market ....I spit on it ! I spit on it ! (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/the-moan-zone/425156-daw-controller-market-i-spit-i-spit.html)

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 12:35 PM

The DAW controller market ....I spit on it ! I spit on it !
 
Why oh, Why oh, Why oh, Whyyyy !
Is it too much to ask for a quality reasonably priced DAW Controller ? Is it ? Is it too much to ask for 16 to 24 touch-sensitive motorized faders ? Is it ?
Is it too much to ask for an ergonomic design and simple functionality ? Is it ?
Or has ITB mixing not reached the point where we deserve 16 to 24 faders ? All we have available to the ITB market is the Mackie Control Pro, and the the Euphonix MC ( both only have 8 faders ) and you pay out the a** for any more faders ! And I don't need built in crappy converters either, just a good quality DAW CONTROLLER. Am I the only person that is frustrated with this market, knowing full well they can develope a 24 channel or more desk at a reasonable price ( Tascam US 2400 ) but due to commercial gain they are probably holding this off till 2012 !!!

...damn this thread belongs in the moan zone !

...I'm about to make my own controller if I have to wait any longer !!! hjghfgg

JB872 23rd September 2009 05:36 PM

I feel the same way. A guy who goes by the name bitmon on this site was able to put together a full console for his daw using bcf 2000's, bcr 2000's, and a little computer programming. So it' definitely possible at an affordable price.

7161 23rd September 2009 05:47 PM

yup - gaping hole in the market. someone could clean up

tobymusic 23rd September 2009 05:47 PM

I'm with you man! And i hope if we will ever see such a thing it'll not use the HUI protocol to be able to talk to Pro Tools!

Ishaan 23rd September 2009 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4606762)

...I'm about to make my own controller if I have to wait any longer !!! hjghfgg

hmmm....how would you go about doing that? i'd be interested in knowing, lol

trock 23rd September 2009 06:10 PM

i have had my mixed logic M24 for a couple years now and have loved it. great support, great for multiple DAW's with the touch of a button and menu change

built really well

updates are the only lagging point, they are slowwwww

but i have used it with

Sonar PE 7
LOGIC 9
Cubase 5 - which is my main DAW now
SAMP 10.2 pro

Mixed Logic

Tube World 23rd September 2009 06:34 PM

If I want to use a DAW controller I need one with scribble strips. The Mackie controller pro works great; it offers you control on the faders, pan, solo, mute, transport, jog wheel, and allows you to customized over 16 commands with your DAW. I added a extender and I have 16 faders to work with. I have no complaints here for my project home studio. It does everything I need it to do. If you have a pro studio, you would probably want to go up to the SSL Matrix. But for home studios the Mackie is excellent. Another option is to use a digital mixer like the Tascam DM 3200 or Yamaha DM 1000 or 02R96. If you want something cheaper than the Mackie with scribble strips and quality' it won't be there. I never liked the Tascam controller with it's 24 faders. They felt very cheap and again it lacked the scribble strips. I don't want to guess what fader I am touching so the led scribble so on top is very important. tutt

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tube World (Post 4607850)
If I want to use a DAW controller I need one with scribble strips. The Mackie controller pro works great; it offers you control on the faders, pan, solo, mute, transport, jog wheel, and allows you to customized over 16 commands with your DAW. I added a extender and I have 16 faders to work with.

Do you work for mackie ? Ok, lets do the maths... £951.98 + £629.52 for 16 channels... ok I want 24 channels now so + £629.52 x 2 = £2842 in total ! ...are you friggin serious ! just so I can move 24 DAW faders and access a couple of basic functions like play... record... rewind etc Mackie wants £2842 out of me ! Its an utter joke ! You can get a digital mixing desk for that price as you rightly pointed out !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tube World (Post 4607850)
SSL Matrix. But for home studios the Mackie is excellent.

And don't get me started on the SSL Matrix tutt ...so for £14,375.00 I get a motorised DAW controller with no onboard Pre's and no onboard compressor... I just want a DAW Controller with 24 quality faders... one unit ! ...I haven't asked for the world !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tube World (Post 4607850)
Another option is to use a digital mixer like the Tascam DM 3200 or Yamaha DM 1000 or 02R96. If you want something cheaper than the Mackie with scribble strips and quality' it won't be the

All the above options start at £3000 to £7000 ...for a good quality DAW controller... just a good quality DAW controller ! hjghfgg

Yeah I'm mad... cos I know Mackie, Tascam, Euphonix and even Behringer can do it... make a one unit - BAM ! 24 channels - BAM ! Digital and Scribble strips - BAM ! A DAW controller for all to enjoy and do it cheap, BAM, BAM, BAM !!! ...but they won't !!! Not till 2012 or there after ! WHYYYYY ! I want one NOWWWWW ! (I'm about to throw my toys out the playpen)

Rant over ! abduction

noexitrecords 23rd September 2009 08:15 PM

Buy used. I got a Mackie Control Universal Pro and two extenders for cheap from a fellow poster on this website.

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noexitrecords (Post 4608243)
Buy used. I got a Mackie Control Universal Pro and two extenders for cheap from a fellow poster on this website.

OK... at this point I confess, I owned the Mackie Control Universal Pro for 2 days and sold it ! Why ? To be honest I found it overly complicated, just too many unneeded buttons ...not that mentally it was a challenge to work with but just I didn't feel like 1. I had enough faders ( 24 would be nice ) ...and 2. I just didn't like the build, felt too plasticy... I want to almost have that analogue desk feel ...I bet I'm sounding like a studio brat now. I do have the AlphaTrack now which I must say I love, but its only one fader.

jcschild 23rd September 2009 08:28 PM

as mentioned the mixed logic is 24 faders and is by far the best i have seen (without geting into the stratasphere pricing wise)
$2800 us is well worth it

too much for you? well you get what you pay for.

Scott
ADK

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcschild (Post 4608292)
as mentioned the mixed logic is 24 faders and is by far the best i have seen (without geting into the stratasphere pricing wise)
$2800 us is well worth it

too much for you? well you get what you pay for.

Scott
ADK

And this unit works in Logic Pro 8 no problem, anyone using one and care to comment ?

jproc 23rd September 2009 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishaan (Post 4607764)
hmmm....how would you go about doing that? i'd be interested in knowing, lol

It's quite do-able with limited electronics knowledge and an over-abundance of patience.... check out the midibox.org projects at www.uCApps.de
In particular, check the gallery of Midibox64 & MidiboxLC controllers people have built....

Tube World 23rd September 2009 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4608183)
Do you work for mackie ? Ok, lets do the maths... £951.98 + £629.52 for 16 channels... ok I want 24 channels now so + £629.52 x 2 = £2842 in total ! ...are you friggin serious ! just so I can move 24 DAW faders and access a couple of basic functions like play... record... rewind etc Mackie wants £2842 out of me ! Its an utter joke ! You can get a digital mixing desk for that price as you rightly pointed out !



And don't get me started on the SSL Matrix tutt ...so for £14,375.00 I get a motorised DAW controller with no onboard Pre's and no onboard compressor... I just want a DAW Controller with 24 quality faders... one unit ! ...I haven't asked for the world !



All the above options start at £3000 to £7000 ...for a good quality DAW controller... just a good quality DAW controller ! hjghfgg

Yeah I'm mad... cos I know Mackie, Tascam, Euphonix and even Behringer can do it... make a one unit - BAM ! 24 channels - BAM ! Digital and Scribble strips - BAM ! A DAW controller for all to enjoy and do it cheap, BAM, BAM, BAM !!! ...but they won't !!! Not till 2012 or there after ! WHYYYYY ! I want one NOWWWWW ! (I'm about to throw my toys out the playpen)

Rant over ! abduction

I bet you live at home with your parents. peachh Anyone who has a serious home studio and wants Penny and Giles faders and some quality built into it, will have to spend some money for decent controllers. That is just the way it is. If you don't care about moving faders, buy a Behringer.

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jproc (Post 4608305)
It's quite do-able with limited electronics knowledge and an over-abundance of patience.... check out the midibox.org projects at www.uCApps.de
In particular, check the gallery of Midibox64 & MidiboxLC controllers people have built....

OK ...er ...well, its kind of primitive but I guess its a start ! Hmmmm hidz

....how much is the Mackie again ? cellfone

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_lc/midibox_lc_1.jpg

jproc 23rd September 2009 08:46 PM

some are pretty primitive... you missed looking at some of the really elaborate ones though - all built on the same platform:

http://www.midibox.org/midibox_gallery/axel_lc24_11.jpghttp://www.midibox.org/midibox_gallery/dan_lc1.jpghttp://www.midibox.org/midibox_gallery/axel17.jpg

jcschild 23rd September 2009 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4608303)
And this unit works in Logic Pro 8 no problem, anyone using one and care to comment ?

4 posts up from yours
Trock....

and yes it works with Logic. however it can be extremely complex it has menuing 5 deep and can bank almost infinately. its not your average controller.

basic operation is not hard to get but you can program it to do a lot more

DaveC 23rd September 2009 08:57 PM

Been using a Motormix and a Nocturn for quite a while now, and loving it!

trock 23rd September 2009 08:59 PM

yes the M24 works very very well with sonar. i am using it with cubase 5 now and it also works really well

both sonar and cubase i can get full functionality with just the USB cable also, vs 6 midi cables

hmm also logic 9 with the USB.

i used it when i had sonar on a PC, sonar PE 7. i also use it flawlessly now on a mac pro with cubase.

support is really good to. kevin borroman (sp?) is who i talk to when i need help. nice to know if something ever goes wrong i can email someone and get an instant response for anything on it

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jproc (Post 4608358)
some are pretty primitive... you missed looking at some of the really elaborate ones though - all built on the same platform:

http://www.midibox.org/midibox_gallery/axel_lc24_11.jpg

Now that's what I'm talking about !!

Franco 23rd September 2009 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobymusic (Post 4607695)
And i hope if we will ever see such a thing it'll not use the HUI protocol to be able to talk to Pro Tools!

HUI is the best you're probably going to get with Pro Tools. Digidesign sells their own controllers for PT and I don't think they'll allow other developers in on their code. HUI is fine with me (using a Mackie MCU and 1 extender). For the price, these things are great. I've had them for about 3 years but now 2 of the P&G faders are acting up, will have to open this up and clean them as others have done soon.

pdiddy boy 23rd September 2009 11:20 PM

...oh can I add, the DAW controller should have a talkback microphone too ! heh

kdp 24th September 2009 01:11 AM

I agree!!!! Let's have at it!!!32 channels.

latestflavor 24th September 2009 05:31 AM

op - you are correct, there is a hole in this (pretty small) market. and you are also correct, you absolutely need the track names (but maybe not scribble script) to come down from the DAW, because even at 24ch its not enough and you get way mixed up on the screen versus what is in front of you. i have four mackie controls and without those meager displays i want to curse at for not being able to hold more characters, i would snap.

i could not fathom getting by using the us-2400 or the mixed logic one mentioned here with no track displays. i would rather mix with a mouse then get caught up in a "which one is this" game on every song as the screen and bank changes depending on your track count.

however, if one needs to look as to the value of a proper one look no further - all my mackies are almost worth what they were 5 or 6 years later (must be a record for outdated digital crap). this is quote astonishing and i scratch my head why tascam can't release a 2400 with meters and big display for much cheaper.

i've had my eye on the euphonics becasue i hate gunking up all my midi bandwidth with these MCU's and would welcome the change in protocol but not $4 grand.

and given how we've all been waiting, years and years and years, i wouldn't hold my breath. buy some used mackie controls (that work, use the buyer protection in paypal) and just call it a day.

DP40oz 24th September 2009 07:01 AM

If a controller doesn't have scribble strips in this day and age it's not a legitimate option. I've got a Control 24 and love it more then life. I feel for you non pro tools guys because there is really no decent mid-range option. This topic is not a new one and it's crazy because no companies are listening. A control 24 minus the pre's for native daws priced reasonably would be the biggest thing to hit the pro audio market in awhile.

Lackatee 24th September 2009 08:29 AM

Yeah, I own a Tascam US-2400 and the fact that i cant see the channel names on each track makes it almost completely useless as a mixing console. It's great for doing automation and a little on the fly muting and solo'ing.. but seriously... Trying to mix anything above 24 tracks is painful without track names. Forget about it if its 60-70 tracks..

I'm ready to get rid of mine and find a more intelligent solution..

Bassmankr 24th September 2009 06:32 PM

Just do what the analog mixers do, tape and a marker. If you are using bank switching on the digital controller then write each bank down on the tape over each other. Simple and cheap to use what you have. Anyone making a custom desk (like for the Behringers) then at least design in a dry erase scribble strip into it. While it's nice to have an electronic scribble strip, you have to give up width to keep the faders close together which results with too few characters on the strip to help much. It's just choosing your poisen, wide strips kills being able to move lots of faders at the same time (fingers only stretch so much).

code 10 24th September 2009 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4608282)
OK... at this point I confess, I owned the Mackie Control Universal Pro for 2 days and sold it ! Why ? To be honest I found it overly complicated, just too many unneeded buttons ...not that mentally it was a challenge to work with but just I didn't feel like 1. I had enough faders ( 24 would be nice ) ...and 2. I just didn't like the build, felt too plasticy... I want to almost have that analogue desk feel ...I bet I'm sounding like a studio brat now. I do have the AlphaTrack now which I must say I love, but its only one fader.

What utter nonsense!

The MCU Pro is hardly plasticy as you put it, out of the DAW controllers I've seen thus far it's heads and tails better than anything available other than a C-24 and all the other stratospherically priced controllers.

I've the MCU Pro and it's a fantastically well made piece of gear, the Euphonics series of controllers to my mind are plastic toot, wouldn't waste my cash on them, just way over priced, the Behiringer offerings = Fisher Price to me, they're ok if you want a very cheap as chips solution, other than that I wouldn't waste any hard eared on buying a Behringer controller.

You get what you pay for in this day and age, its pretty rare to buy something that is very well made and at a very sensible price point.

Just for giggles, give us a ballpark figure you had in mind that you would be prepared to pay for a 24 fader unit?

pdiddy boy 24th September 2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony--> (Post 4611766)
Just for giggles, give us a ballpark figure you had in mind that you would be prepared to pay for a 24 fader unit?

£1500 to £1800 is reasonable to me, and anyone else can chip in with a price if they like.

code 10 24th September 2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy boy (Post 4612347)
£1500 to £1800 is reasonable to me, and anyone else can chip in with a price if they like.

Well, a Control universal pro + 2 extenders tops out at £2,211.02, not too bad really, sure, it's a lotta wonga but the build of the units (the control universal pro in particular) is really very, very good, they make the Euphonics look ridiculous, plastic crap!

BTW, I don't work for Mackie, I picked my unit up from a guy on evil-bay for £600 just before the prices went stupid, maybe at some point they'll go down in price once everything starts to settle in the markets (FTSE, Dow Jones etc.)

Oh, and another thing, they certainly are not all plastic, they are pretty much all metal apart form the displays, you must of bought the old version of the MCU.