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-   -   Using the Logic Pro Compressor as a De-Esser (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/381284-using-logic-pro-compressor-de-esser.html)

Lagerfeldt 12th April 2009 09:21 AM

Using the Logic Pro Compressor as a De-Esser
 
Using the Logic Compressor as a De-Esser
This has also been posted on Logic Pro Help :: Logic Pro Forums in this thread: Logic Pro Help :: View topic - Using the Logic Compressor as a De-Esser

What and why
The bundled de-esser in Logic Pro is not that good for vocals. Since it can't function in wideband mode it tends to make the vocal lisp very quickly.

This preset does a much better job in my opinion though it's built on a very simple technique: using a resonant high pass filter in the internal sidechain of the Logic compressor.

How to use the preset during mixing
1) Solo the vocal track and loop a couple of bars. Find a part that contains lots of sibilance ("s" and "t" sounds).
2) Switch the Activity parameter from "On" to "Listen", and tune the Frequency parameter until the sibilance is worst. Switch Activity back to "On".
3) Lower the threshold parameter until the compressor ducks on sibilance but not during the rest of the vocal. This is very important to avoid overdoing it.
4) Adjust the ratio if necessary to make the ducking less (lower ratio) or more agressive (higher ratio). The default ratio of 10:1 is fairly aggressive but sounds great.

How to counter a wide sibilance area
Normally a sibilance problem occurs within a specific area, e.g. around 7 kHz. If you're having problems with both "sss" and the lower frequency "chh" sounds then try lowering the Q value. Go from the preset default of Q=5 to around 2 or even lower. Do this while in the "Listen" mode in step 2 above. You need to re-adjust your threshold after doing this.

Where to insert a de-esser
Insert a de-esser early or first in the vocal chain, before equalizing or regular compression. This will give you the most natural sounding result.

However, if you're boosting lots of highs in your vocal eq then you may get better results by inserting the de-esser after the equalizer but still before regular compression. You need to re-adjust your de-esser threshold when doing this, and you could possibly be getting a few more "false positives", i.e. ducking on normal parts of the vocal.

Nerdy stuff you can skip
I've chosen a high pass filter and not a parametric eq in order to detect from the specified frequency and upwards, though it focuses on the specified frequency due to the resonance caused by the high Q value in the filter. The best of both worlds then.

Since the compressor works in wideband during the actual ducking you won't get the lisping artifacts associated with many splitband de-essers. But it also means this de-esser preset is most useful on vocals. If you're trying to remove a fret noise in a guitar recording you may want to use Logic's own de-esser plug-in.

Download and install
Links | Audio Articles, Technical Tips, Download Presets

Move the de-esser preset (.pst file) to this location:

Mac HD > Users > YourUserName > Library > Application Support > Logic > Plug-in Settings > Compressor

Audio examples
Original vocal without de-essing

Same vocal with de-essing preset
Notice how the "s" and "t" sounds are more controlled and lower in a pleasant way without lisping, and the rest of the vocal is untouched.

Using the original vocal WAV file clip you can experiment with the preset yourself. The WAV files are included in the above ZIP download.

Screenshot
http://www.popmusic.dk/download/logi...screenshot.png

Rev. Robb 12th April 2009 03:07 PM

Thanks! howdy

Mr Balle 12th April 2009 10:36 PM

Cheers for this! It works amazingly well on my voice. Beautiful! ;-)

Lagerfeldt 12th April 2009 10:40 PM

That's great!

I'm going to update the first post with a detailed step-by-step guide on how to tune and use this preset very soon, so those with less de-esser experience can get the maximum benefit too.

LeMauce 12th April 2009 10:40 PM

Damn L, you did it again with logic stock plugin!
I try'd it and it works 9 out of 10 on French Rap (where alot alot alot SSSS'ss are and hell difficult to get it right).
A winner concept L for me!
Big thanks again.

Lagerfeldt 12th April 2009 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMauce (Post 4087372)
I try'd it and it works 9 out of 10 on French Rap (where alot alot alot SSSS'ss are and hell difficult to get it right).
A winner concept L for me!

Yeah, also on rap you need a good de-esser to keep things under control. Especially in a language like French that has both sibilants and lots of shibilants. This preset seems to work well with all kinds of vocal material.

Agzilla 13th April 2009 12:18 AM

Cool....
 
This works like a charm... i got your other SSLike presets too, your a real asset to a place like this... good lookin' out man....

I'll be getting good use out of this...




Respect.

Zz.

Lagerfeldt 13th April 2009 10:15 AM

Cheers!

Thanks to fader8 for providing the filter analyzing graph.

http://www.popmusic.dk/download/logi...hainfilter.jpg

Notice that the gain parameter is inactive. This resonant boost is only caused by the Q setting in the high pass filter.

I've added the following to the original post:

How to counter a wide sibilance area
Normally a sibilance problem occurs within a specific area, e.g. around 7 kHz. If you're having problems with both "sss" and the lower frequency "chh" sounds then try lowering the Q value. Go from the preset default of Q=5 to around 2 or even lower. Do this while in the "Listen" mode in step 2 in the guide above. You need to re-adjust your threshold after doing this.

jimmydeluxe 13th April 2009 10:31 AM

Thanks!

Are the "SSL" presets here, or on the Logic forum?

Lagerfeldt 13th April 2009 10:34 AM

Here on Gearslutz:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-download.html

and here:
Logic Pro Help :: View topic - SSL 4000 G presets for Logic 8 Compressor (download)

Please keep other SSL emulation related questions in the relevant threads.kfhkh

jimmydeluxe 13th April 2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt (Post 4088526)
Here on Gearslutz:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-download.html

and here:
Logic Pro Help :: View topic - SSL 4000 G presets for Logic 8 Compressor (download)

Please keep other SSL emulation related questions in the relevant threads.kfhkh

Yes, of course--only asked because of above reference, and the fact that searching for, "ssl presets," on gs would seemingly be about as fruitful as searching, "best compressor for..."

Thanks again! thumbsup

felipeabel 13th April 2009 05:38 PM

Thanks Lagerfeldt!!!

I love the presets SSL for Logic and now this De-Esser!!!

Insomniaclown 13th April 2009 05:42 PM

Thanks for this tutorial! I have never known what t do with that bottom tab on the logic compressor. Now it all makes sense.

peacenik 13th April 2009 06:26 PM

Thanks!
(and I was just missing my FishFilets the other day with my new MacPro too! )

C Heat 27th April 2009 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt (Post 4087371)
That's great!

I'm going to update the first post with a detailed step-by-step guide on how to tune and use this preset very soon, so those with less de-esser experience can get the maximum benefit too.

Send it here.

You could make an easy $150.00

Lagerfeldt 27th April 2009 08:40 AM

Thank you for the suggestion. I've never heard of it before but it looks like a very interesting concept!

I don't think I'm going to be using that service, however. One of the requirements are "Your tutorial must be your original work and not published elsewhere."

While my tutorials are my original work, I like to publish them here on Gearslutz, Logic Pro Help, Wikiaudio, and my own forum Lydmaskinen - Alt om Lydteknik og Musikbranche | Forum (in Danish).

This way the maximum amount of people can get the benefit from my tutorials for free. While I do not get any money for posting these free tutorials I do get a lot of goodwill which is worth a lot more than $150 to me.

C Heat 27th April 2009 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt (Post 4133600)
While I do not get any money for posting these free tutorials I do get a lot of goodwill which is worth a lot more than $150 to me.

Good for you Lagerfeldt kfhkh

If I ever switch to Logic I'll definitely check your generous public offerings howdy

freshflowe

tom-tom 18th June 2009 10:24 PM

Problem with the settings
 
It's just a problem with your settings...after applying your preset it sounds like the sound (vocals) jumps up and down in volume. Have you noticed this? Is it a way to overcome this?

Excuse my writing, english is not my native launge.

/Tom

Lagerfeldt 19th June 2009 08:29 PM

Did you use the provided preset file?

...or did you input the values yourself using the screenshot? I'm wondering if you forgot to set something correctly such as the sidechain.

Did you adjust the frequency in the extended parameters section as explained in the provided guide?

Since the preset will only react to material in a narrow frequency range around the sibilance area, the compressor should not make vocals jump at all - unless you have excessive high frequency material in your recording all the time.

Since this presets does its detection in a narrow frequency area but the actual ducking in broadband (which explains why it can sound so natural) it also means it's not a split band ducker. On a normal vocal recording it will sound very natural when set correctly.

Twitchy 10th July 2009 05:06 PM

Hello Lagerfeldt!! This is my first post on Gearslutz. Is there anything out there that's better than this, 'cause this thing is actually killerkfhkh An elegantly created solution to De-Essing in Logic Pro 8. Beautifully explained, and wonderful graphs by fader8.

Really Good Stuff, thank you!!

makesijoseph 11th July 2009 01:23 AM

very nice
 
works really well on my vocals

Lagerfeldt 11th July 2009 11:41 AM

Quote:

An elegantly created solution to De-Essing in Logic Pro 8. Beautifully explained, and wonderful graphs by fader8.

Really Good Stuff, thank you!!
Glad you guys like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twitchy (Post 4363190)
Hello Lagerfeldt!! This is my first post on Gearslutz. Is there anything out there that's better than this, 'cause this thing is actually killerkfhkh

Well, there's the Waves Renaissance De-Esser, the Sonnox Oxford SuprEsser, and the Eiosis E2Deesser. I use my own Logic preset or the Renaissance in wideband mode.

liquidorange 11th July 2009 12:54 PM

sounds de-essed but theres a little meat gone from the original take. like to here it in context with the music too.

glissando 11th July 2009 06:57 PM

See, now that's awesome. Thanks so much for that. I'm so embarassed, but I didn't even know that the comp had a drop down menu at the bottom with all those options...opens up a whole new world for me...BTW the adlimiter has something similar at the bottom and is extremely useful....thanks again L.

Lagerfeldt 12th July 2009 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glissando (Post 4366426)
See, now that's awesome. Thanks so much for that. I'm so embarassed, but I didn't even know that the comp had a drop down menu at the bottom with all those options...opens up a whole new world for me...BTW the adlimiter has something similar at the bottom and is extremely useful....thanks again L.

Thanks. In fact many of Logic's plug-in have this dropdown menu or other hidden features, such as the EQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidorange (Post 4365621)
theres a little meat gone from the original take..

No, the rest of the vocal is unchanged in that regard.

_Morph_ 17th July 2009 01:41 AM

Lagerfeldt, I tried this today on a tough vocal and I must say: THANK YOU! The results with this are highly satisfying. The reduction is really transparent, whithout unwanted artifacts.

Lagerfeldt 28th October 2009 06:02 PM

That's great thumbsup

elmolemon 28th February 2010 12:47 PM

I just wanted to thank you for this one! kfhkh

I just stumbled across this thread yesterday and two instances of the logic compressor with your preset (slightly adjusted) solved the problem with an highly problematic vocal take!

I simply love logic and its possibilities and presets like this one or your take on the SSL-compressor show how far one can get with the logic-stock-tools, as long as you know what you are doing!

DaVinci 28th February 2010 06:10 PM

Yeah, thanks for this one. I came across this a few months ago, and I have been VERY disappointed with the software de-essers I've tried, so having another option helps.

What has been tremendously helpful too is combining this with another gem I've picked up: de-essing the reverb send rather than the vocal track. Often, the reverb adds a terrible amount of high end bite to the sibilances. If you can have all that "air" on the track overall, but keep it from biting in the sibilances, it tends to give a more even feel.

I've found more often than not that I get a much more natural sound by de-essing the send to the vocal reverb while letting the full vocal take come through... of course there are times where the source track is just too painful in spots.

Lagerfeldt 28th February 2010 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeAl (Post 5157196)
What has been tremendously helpful too is combining this with another gem I've picked up: de-essing the reverb send rather than the vocal track. Often, the reverb adds a terrible amount of high end bite to the sibilances. If you can have all that "air" on the track overall, but keep it from biting in the sibilances, it tends to give a more even feel.

Yes very useful, though I recommend de-essing both the vocal (if necessary) and the reverb send.

For those who aren't familiar with the trick: simply insert a de-esser on the reverb bus before the reverb insert. This de-esses the signal going into the reverb but not the actual reverb output or the original vocal track.

You can often de-ess massive amounts on the reverb send without any sacrifice.