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9321 13th July 2005 06:29 AM

Help me with MY PRE'S
 
Hey guys...

I have searched this forum on this topic and have read many threads on it, but no one dealt with my DIRECT situation.. So here it is.

I have a Aphex 1100 (stereo pre w/AES out as well), Boutique Audio 1272 pair, Api 312 Vin and 312 Avedis mod, Avalon 737 (7 pres in all) and a Brauner VM1 and C12 (green).

Question is for drum set up, what mics and through which pre would you suggest for me to use? Could either one of the mics I have be used in the setup and give the drums justice? Also I'm thinking I need one more pre to complete my set up, recommendations on that would be great as well.
I'm using PT through a Rosetta 800 (Only 8 channels in)
Thanks,
T.
diddlydoo

9321 14th July 2005 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
Hey guys...

I have searched this forum on this topic and have read many threads on it, but no one dealt with my DIRECT situation.. So here it is.

I have a Aphex 1100 (stereo pre w/AES out as well), Boutique Audio 1272 pair, Api 312 Vin and 312 Avedis mod, Avalon 737 (7 pres in all) and a Brauner VM1 and C12 (green).

Question is for drum set up, what mics and through which pre would you suggest for me to use? Could either one of the mics I have be used in the setup and give the drums justice? Also I'm thinking I need one more pre to complete my set up, recommendations on that would be great as well.
I'm using PT through a Rosetta 800 (Only 8 channels in)
Thanks,
T.
diddlydoo

Thanks guys.....
khrthjdrt

cdog 14th July 2005 04:56 PM

You listed 7 pres and only 2 mics. khrthjdrt

Sounds like you need 5 more mics to me. hidz

max cooper 14th July 2005 08:37 PM

ok... 312's on kick and snare.

C12 -> 1272 mono OH (green...so that's a VR, right?)

Brauner -> 1272 down low for the room.

These are just suggestions... fun though!

Say, do you use the 800's limiter on drums? Just wondering.

9321 15th July 2005 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdog
You listed 7 pres and only 2 mics. khrthjdrt

Sounds like you need 5 more mics to me. hidz

That's Y I put this thread up... Any suggestions on the other 5?

9321 15th July 2005 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper
ok... 312's on kick and snare.

C12 -> 1272 mono OH (green...so that's a VR, right?)

Brauner -> 1272 down low for the room.

These are just suggestions... fun though!

Say, do you use the 800's limiter on drums? Just wondering.

Max,

Haven't tried the 800's limiter on the drums... Gotta get some more mics for the set... Any suggestions on what to use for the kik, snare, toms, hat??
T.
howdy

9321 15th July 2005 09:36 AM

Ok how about this
 
So maybe I wasn't as clear... Can you guys also suggest some mics for the other pieces of the drums? For an old school (funk) and new school (rock) sound through the pres I have already and maybe suggesting one more pre.
Please suggest some mics that are versatile to use for different kind of applications..
Thanks,
T.
hidz

Fletcher 15th July 2005 07:45 PM

You might want to check out some Josephson e22S's for the toms, maybe a Microtech Gefell M-300 for snare, a couple of Coles 4040's for oerheads and a Gefell M****0 in the hole in the kik drum... [or the VM-1 in the kik]... I'd probably suggest the pre from the 737 for the snare, and some combination of the like the Avedis modded 312's for overheads with the Boutique 1272's for the toms and the vintage 312's for kik and H/H [the C-12 VR should work pretty good for H/H... try putting it over the spindle aimed away from the drummer towards the edge of the hat in like a hyper cardioid pattern and you might be very surprised... or it could suck and I'm a complete asshole].

Best of luck with it.

NathanEldred 16th July 2005 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
I have a Aphex 1100 (stereo pre w/AES out as well), Boutique Audio 1272 pair, Api 312 Vin and 312 Avedis mod, Avalon 737 (7 pres in all) and a Brauner VM1 and C12 (green).


Boutique audio pair = kick and snare
API and Avedis = overheads
Aphex pair = toms
Avalon = ride


I haven't met a high hat that didn't cut through the overheads loud enough to be heard easily even in a dense mix. With ride that's not always the case.

9321 16th July 2005 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanEldred
Boutique audio pair = kick and snare
API and Avedis = overheads
Aphex pair = toms
Avalon = ride

Thanks Nathan.. Any suggestions on which mics to pick up to go through the preamps outside of the ones I have? (if they are usuable for drums)
jkthtyrt

9321 16th July 2005 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletcher
You might want to check out some Josephson e22S's for the toms, maybe a Microtech Gefell M-300 for snare, a couple of Coles 4040's for oerheads and a Gefell M****0 in the hole in the kik drum... [or the VM-1 in the kik]... I'd probably suggest the pre from the 737 for the snare, and some combination of the like the Avedis modded 312's for overheads with the Boutique 1272's for the toms and the vintage 312's for kik and H/H [the C-12 VR should work pretty good for H/H... try putting it over the spindle aimed away from the drummer towards the edge of the hat in like a hyper cardioid pattern and you might be very surprised... or it could suck and I'm a complete asshole].

Best of luck with it.

Fletch..
Thanks as always... Hopefully one day I can return the favor.. Maybe I could play on a session for you, lunch or something. You always come through. Google my name and maybe I can help you in some way for all your help...
Peace,
Tim Carmon

NathanEldred 17th July 2005 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
Thanks Nathan.. Any suggestions on which mics to pick up to go through the preamps outside of the ones I have? (if they are usuable for drums)
jkthtyrt


I like the Sennheiser 604 on snare, it's pretty hi-fi (especially compared to a SM-57 which just sounds plain bad to my ears most of the time) and responds to EQ well. Small diaphragm condensers are nice on snare, but it's guaranteed to get hit and smoke the microphone. Probably the Brauner in the kick, with one mic I like a large hole on the front head with the mic about mid way in the drum, it's a nice balance between boom and attack (and it's a lot easier added lows to a kick with lots of attack, than it is adding attack to a drum with primarily just lows). You could use the C12 on overheads, but you'll need another. For new mics Gefell 300's, Soundelux iFET7's, Soundelux U195, Gefell 295's, Josephson e22, Josephson C42 are all good overhead mics. I primarily use vintage KM86's, but all the above sound great. Toms...I like condensers, I think dynamics don't cut it. Gefell 930's, TLM103's, U195's, e22's...be prepared to sacrifice the mics. If you are on a tight budget, Sennheiser 604's are pretty good, a little bass shy. D112's sound really nice (big low end), but you'll need at least a 14" drum to keep it out of the drummers way. Room mics don't really matter to me. Everybody wants it tight, and the small amount of room that creeps into the mics at my place is plenty for 'air' (it's far from dead), the only thing that gets verb in a box added on drums during mix usually is the snare (sometimes toms and ride get it too, but less often...I compress toms with vintage 1176's and it brings up the room by doing that and they tend to sound huge).

9321 17th July 2005 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanEldred
I like the Sennheiser 604 on snare, it's pretty hi-fi (especially compared to a SM-57 which just sounds plain bad to my ears most of the time) and responds to EQ well. Small diaphragm condensers are nice on snare, but it's guaranteed to get hit and smoke the microphone. Probably the Brauner in the kick, with one mic I like a large hole on the front head with the mic about mid way in the drum, it's a nice balance between boom and attack (and it's a lot easier added lows to a kick with lots of attack, than it is adding attack to a drum with primarily just lows). You could use the C12 on overheads, but you'll need another. For new mics Gefell 300's, Soundelux iFET7's, Soundelux U195, Gefell 295's, Josephson e22, Josephson C42 are all good overhead mics. I primarily use vintage KM86's, but all the above sound great. Toms...I like condensers, I think dynamics don't cut it. Gefell 930's, TLM103's, U195's, e22's...be prepared to sacrifice the mics. If you are on a tight budget, Sennheiser 604's are pretty good, a little bass shy. D112's sound really nice (big low end), but you'll need at least a 14" drum to keep it out of the drummers way. Room mics don't really matter to me. Everybody wants it tight, and the small amount of room that creeps into the mics at my place is plenty for 'air' (it's far from dead), the only thing that gets verb in a box added on drums during mix usually is the snare (sometimes toms and ride get it too, but less often...I compress toms with vintage 1176's and it brings up the room by doing that and they tend to sound huge).

Nathan...

Thanks so much on that info.. I'm gonna find a rental house here and test them out. I've heard so much about using the sm57 and you're the first to say otherwise so I'm totally intrigued...
Thanks for all the tips.. I'll be back with some clips to check out..
T.

wworried

insomnio 18th July 2005 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max cooper
ok... 312's on kick and snare.

C12 -> 1272 mono OH (green...so that's a VR, right?)

Brauner -> 1272 down low for the room.

These are just suggestions... fun though!

Say, do you use the 800's limiter on drums? Just wondering.

Seems like a nice & cheap option. APIs in snare and kick (I guess).
Add an SM57 in snare and a SM7 in kick.

So, what Max said + SM57 + SM7= Nice and cheap!


I

themaidsroom 18th July 2005 12:33 AM

josephson e-22s - buy a few.

be well

- jack

9321 18th July 2005 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Seems like you put the cart before the horse. wworried

Is that your final answer??? Wrong... Had these already and were using them for diffent applications outside of drums.. Got some drums now and a room and posted this thread to get some "helpful" information..
mezed

9321 18th July 2005 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaidsroom
josephson e-22s - buy a few.

be well

- jack

Thanks Jack.. I'll let you know how it turns out.

9321 18th July 2005 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insomnio
Seems like a nice & cheap option. APIs in snare and kick (I guess).
Add an SM57 in snare and a SM7 in kick.

So, what Max said + SM57 + SM7= Nice and cheap!


I

Insomnio.. Thanks on that.. That 57 seems like a standard.. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll have some with the other mics to check out..
Cheap is always nice although I don't wanna sacrifice the sound. I would love for the records to leave from my room straight to mastering... So I'll spend where I need to.
thumbsup

Solunaris 18th July 2005 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletcher
You might want to check out some Josephson e22S's for the toms, maybe a Microtech Gefell M-300 for snare, a couple of Coles 4040's for overheads and a Gefell M****0 in the hole in the kik drum... ].
.

Fletcher, what kind of drum sound does that setup make? I'm quite interested....
Also, I have the Gefell UM900's which I'm going to use as overheads, what would you say those Coles do that these don't and vice versa? I haven't heard a ribbon on OH... as far as those josephson's on toms, compared to say a 421, is that more of a hifi tom sound? And that gefell M910, could you use that as the outside kick mic or would you use it buy it self inside the drum with no other mics? Just wondering.... haha

9321 18th July 2005 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrogantbastard
Fletcher, what kind of drum sound does that setup make? I'm quite interested....
Also, I have the Gefell UM900's which I'm going to use as overheads, what would you say those Coles do that these don't and vice versa? I haven't heard a ribbon on OH... as far as those josephson's on toms, compared to say a 421, is that more of a hifi tom sound? And that gefell M910, could you use that as the outside kick mic or would you use it buy it self inside the drum with no other mics? Just wondering.... haha

That makes 2 of us that wants to know..
ablian

audioez 18th July 2005 08:50 PM

CART BEFORE THE....
Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
Is that your final answer??? Wrong... Had these already and were using them for diffent applications outside of drums.. Got some drums now and a room and posted this thread to get some "helpful" information..
mezed


This is the same guy who doesn't believe that having the mic pres closest to the source makes a improvement in the quality of the recording.

I'm a fan of the MD421 new or old, they're all good in the neighborhood!

Sounds Great 18th July 2005 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioez
CART BEFORE THE....



This is the same guy who doesn't believe that having the mic pres closest to the source makes a improvement in the qulity of the recording.

Well, I'm not sure how the two relate. Microphone selection and pre amp selection most definitely will affect how the sound is recorded. Position of the mic pre will not. I'm quite sure a blind test would confirm this.

9321 18th July 2005 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioez
CART BEFORE THE....



This is the same guy who doesn't believe that having the mic pres closest to the source makes a improvement in the qulity of the recording.

I'm a fan of the MD421 new or old, they're all good in the neighborhood!

Hey EZ,

Any suggestions on which pre to run it through.. BTW, anyone hip to the Telefunken V76?
T.

9321 18th July 2005 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sounds Great
Well, I'm not sure how the two relate. Microphone selection and pre amp selection most definitely will affect how the sound is recorded. Position of the mic pre will not. I'm quite sure a blind test would confirm this.

Any suggestion on a mic /mics through the pres I have?

audioez 18th July 2005 11:41 PM

In regards to your current pre amp situation I'd go with the api312 you mentioned, that's if we're talking about drums and the MD421.

insomnio 19th July 2005 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
Insomnio.. Thanks on that.. That 57 seems like a standard.. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll have some with the other mics to check out..
Cheap is always nice although I don't wanna sacrifice the sound. I would love for the records to leave from my room straight to mastering... So I'll spend where I need to.
thumbsup

How can you sacrifice the sound with a standard. The 57 is the "go to" mic in snare, here and everywhere. For a long time the SM57 was part of the snare sound (and that's for thousands of records). So, how can you go wrong with a standard?
That said, my favorite snare mic now is the Beyer 201.

Insomnio

insomnio 19th July 2005 02:20 AM

Let me ask you something: do you really have two mics for seven pres?

_____________
Insomnio

Sounds Great 19th July 2005 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkyt
Any suggestion on a mic /mics through the pres I have?


Quote:

I have a Aphex 1100 (stereo pre w/AES out as well), Boutique Audio 1272 pair, Api 312 Vin and 312 Avedis mod, Avalon 737 (7 pres in all) and a Brauner VM1 and C12 (green)
Ok, first I would lose the 737. jkthtyrt

I never used the Brauner, so I can't say, but it could work on something, a floor tom, a high hat? Doesn't seem like it would be an ideal drum mic but you never know. The C12 would be great as a room mic, assuming the room sounds any good, otherwise scratch that.

My drum set up is:
(2)at4051a's for overheads
Senheiser E602 on kick
Beyer M201 on snare
AKG c535eb on hi-hat
(3) EV N/D 408a's on toms

I would put the API312 on snare and kick. The other 312's on overheads.
The 1272's on hi-hat and smallest tom. The Aphex 1100 on 2 bigger toms.

Also keep in mind, the high hat track may not be needed, or used at low volume, so it isn't so critical as long as the mic can be placed for good tone, and relative isolation.

9321 19th July 2005 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insomnio
Let me ask you something: do you really have two mics for seven pres?

_____________
Insomnio

To answer your question... NO... I have 2 mics (not FOR)... AND 7 pres. Once again I had the mics already and a couple of the pres for mainly vocals.... Now that I have drums I want more mics for them... Which brings us to this thread..
Got it?
T.
BTW- What about the Beyer is it that you love over the "standard" 57?
Thanks,

hittt

9321 19th July 2005 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioez
In regards to your current pre amp situation I'd go with the api312 you mentioned, that's if we're talking about drums and the MD421.

EZ,

Definitely drums.. MD421 on everything?

Once again I loved those MP3's with you playing on drums.. Wouldn't mind getting that sound.
T.