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C.Lambrechts 21st February 2003 07:59 PM

audio CD and DVD combined
 
Yesterday a client asked if the following exists :

a format that will play in both normal CD players and a dvd player.

For his next single he wants to put the video clip on the disc as well.

Sure ... enhanced CD will allow you to do that BUT ... not in dvd format. He wants a standalone dvd player to be able to play the single together with the video clip AND the same disc to play as a audio CD in a normal cd player


Any ideas?

ojay 21st February 2003 09:19 PM

How about VCD?

I had a cover disc from Future Music magazine and when i put it in my DVD player(i use it as my cd player), it came up saying that it was a vcd. It's meant to work in an ordinary cd player aswell.

If VCD's don't usually work in cd players then what if it was multi-sessioned?

Not a great a great format but a solution.

Roland 21st February 2003 09:56 PM

Video (VCD's) are mpeg 1 and as such are not as good quality as mpeg 2. It should be possible to put mpeg 2 footage on a CD (Video TS and Audio TS folders) and the computer should be able to pick this up. The audio could also be put on the same disc as normal CD audio, but this wouldn't work in a normal standalone DVD and both audio and video would be severely limited time wise as mpeg 2 files are about 8 times larger than mpeg 1. It is possible, however, to make a DVD with an audio soundtrack and a slideshow to run alongside it. This is distinct as against DVD-A which is something else again.


Regards


Roland jkthtyrt

mwagener 22nd February 2003 04:45 AM

Re: audio CD and DVD combined
 
Quote:

Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
Yesterday a client asked if the following exists :

a format that will play in both normal CD players and a dvd player.

For his next single he wants to put the video clip on the disc as well.

Sure ... enhanced CD will allow you to do that BUT ... not in dvd format. He wants a standalone dvd player to be able to play the single together with the video clip AND the same disc to play as a audio CD in a normal cd player


Any ideas?

As fas as I know this animal really does exist. Dieter Dierks (producer for the Scorpions) holds a patent on a disc where one side is a standard CD and the other side is a DVD. There seems to be a problem that the disc is just slightly to thick and won't play in every player ever made on this earth, that's why companies are staying away from it for now (and Dietrer having a patent probably doesn't help much either).

SACD can have a 16bit/44.1K plus a DSD 5.1 mix plus a DSD stereo mix (so I was told) but no video, just some minimal graphics. His only solution would be to go with DVD-A or DVD-V, but that won't play in a CD audio player, but don't most hoeseholds have a DVD player anyway. No luck playing it in the car (yet).

We have to make the same decission on the surround project im currently working on: WHAT FORMAT? I am setting up for the mix right now and we will be mixing to Tascam DA-98HR in 24bit/48K for a release on DVD-A or DVD-V and to a Genex 8 track DSD recorder for a possible release on SACD. I'm personally leaning a bit more towards the SACD but then we can't put any video and lyrics.

There is also the problem of where to put it in the store. I walked into Tower Records last week and asked where their DVD-A section is, they didn't know what DVD-A was. In that case the SACD would be the bettter idea again, because it could be displayed in the normal CD section.

Very confusing wworriedrollz yuktyy

Roland 22nd February 2003 09:00 AM

Re: Re: audio CD and DVD combined
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener
As fas as I know this animal really does exist. Dieter Dierks (producer for the Scorpions) holds a patent on a disc where one side is a standard CD and the other side is a DVD. There seems to be a problem that the disc is just slightly to thick and won't play in every player ever made on this earth, that's why companies are staying away from it for now (and Dietrer having a patent probably doesn't help much either).

SACD can have a 16bit/44.1K plus a DSD 5.1 mix plus a DSD stereo mix (so I was told) but no video, just some minimal graphics. His only solution would be to go with DVD-A or DVD-V, but that won't play in a CD audio player, but don't most hoeseholds have a DVD player anyway. No luck playing it in the car (yet).

We have to make the same decission on the surround project im currently working on: WHAT FORMAT? I am setting up for the mix right now and we will be mixing to Tascam DA-98HR in 24bit/48K for a release on DVD-A or DVD-V and to a Genex 8 track DSD recorder for a possible release on SACD. I'm personally leaning a bit more towards the SACD but then we can't put any video and lyrics.

There is also the problem of where to put it in the store. I walked into Tower Records last week and asked where their DVD-A section is, they didn't know what DVD-A was. In that case the SACD would be the bettter idea again, because it could be displayed in the normal CD section.

Very confusing wworriedrollz yuktyy

In the UK there are a few DVD-A's in the shops, but they seem to be very esoteric titles and not a lot of them. I agree with you about the SACD thing. DVD-A would have stood a very good chance should all the manufacturers of DVD-V players included it as standard (not a dificult option I believe).

I've just installed my Madi 2 board in my pyramix and the madi card for the DMX-R100. Pyramix hinted to me that they are looking towards supporting 24 DSD inputs on the Madi card and Gennex have a really cool looking 48 track DSD recorder due for release on their site. With the backward compatability of SACD this looks a good bet, however the manufacture is significantly more complicated than that of a standard CD. How this will effect street price I'm not sure.

How do you find the AD convertors in your Gennex Michael? Its just that they seem to be the only people producing multitrack DSD convertors at the moment and I was considering having a go for these.

Regards


Roland jkthtyrt

mwagener 22nd February 2003 05:24 PM

Re: Re: Re: audio CD and DVD combined
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Roland
[B. . . How do you find the AD convertors in your Gennex Michael? Its just that they seem to be the only people producing multitrack DSD convertors at the moment and I was considering having a go for these.

Regards


Roland jkthtyrt [/B]
Roland

The Genex is coming in on Monday. It comes from Sony direct. In an effort to break SACD they loan out DSD machines for mixing (if available). I'll report after I had some time to play with the machine for a while.

Quote:

I walked into Tower Records last week and asked where their DVD-A section is, they didn't know what DVD-A was.
Maybe a little clarifiaction is in order: Tower Records DID have a DVD-A section (right next to the SACD section) but the employees were kind of baffeled when I asked for it and at first didn't know what I was talking about. There were about 120 to 150 different titles in each of those sections. That's including the DTS encoded CDs, which is yet another format to release a 5.1 mix.

alphajerk 22nd February 2003 05:56 PM

some of the new releases put out a double disc title in limited copies, one a CD... the other a DVD that contains the videos. i have bought a couple lately that have had this.

C.Lambrechts 23rd February 2003 12:11 PM

Re: Re: audio CD and DVD combined
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener
As fas as I know this animal really does exist. Dieter Dierks (producer for the Scorpions) holds a patent on a disc where one side is a standard CD and the other side is a DVD. There seems to be a problem that the disc is just slightly to thick and won't play in every player ever made on this earth, that's why companies are staying away from it for now (and Dietrer having a patent probably doesn't help much either).


Calling around a bit yesterday got me in contact with Sonopress in Germany : www.sonopress.de

Although there's nothing on their site about it a representative on the phone actually mentioned a "flip - able" disc as a solution. One side would be normal audio CD and the other side a typical DVD disc . I wonder if that's the same thing you're mentioning. I have to call them back on monday ... find out more ... I'll definately mention this post to them.

mwagener 23rd February 2003 06:07 PM

Re: Re: Re: audio CD and DVD combined
 
Quote:

Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
Calling around a bit yesterday got me in contact with Sonopress in Germany : www.sonopress.de

Although there's nothing on their site about it a representative on the phone actually mentioned a "flip - able" disc as a solution. One side would be normal audio CD and the other side a typical DVD disc . I wonder if that's the same thing you're mentioning. I have to call them back on monday ... find out more ... I'll definately mention this post to them.

Yes it is. I don't know too much about it, please keep us posted.

atticus 26th February 2003 06:04 PM

For what it's worth here at the shop we have the Minnetonka Disc Welder Chrome DVD-A authoring software, and during a conversation I was having with the main guy over there he mentioned that they were about to release a hybrid DVD-A/CD standard. Just an FYI.