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thethrillfactor 10th December 2002 09:26 PM

Caught a little bit of the Billboard awards...
 
... and it was boring as hell!!!grudge


The coolest thing I thought was the tribute to Annie Lennox.

Man if there is one artist I would have loved to worked for is her.kfhkh


It also made me think that, will the modern music business today ever let someone like her reach the masses?


There just isn't a place for someone who is not cookie cutter in the market today.


After watching a little last night, I just came away thinking man those it suck to be in the music business today.grudge

Peace.khrthjdrt

XHipHop 10th December 2002 10:46 PM

The Jam Master J tribute was fun.

doug_hti 10th December 2002 11:53 PM

Re: Caught a little bit of the Billboard awards...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
... and it was boring as hell!!!grudge

It also made me think that, will the modern music business today ever let someone like her reach the masses?

There just isn't a place for someone who is not cookie cutter in the market today.

Peace.khrthjdrt

I thought it was boring as well, but I really think that true artists will start emerging soon. Record companies aren't making money off the cookie cutters anymore. Why do you think there is such a decrease in sales. The kids that want some of the "cookie cutter/aka teen fluff pop, etc." stuff got the mp3s and they only want to listen to a "mp3 album" for a week and it's off to the next thing. And there is limited supply of what adults can buy that they trust is good. The demand is rising. The talent is out there, it's just getting the bean counters and other execs as well as producers risking time/money on a nobody artistic type, but it is happening.
Give it some more time. Record companies are starting to sign some pretty cool people cause publishers are looking for "real" songs now.

Renie 10th December 2002 11:56 PM

ThrillFactor

I didn't see the awards, but to discuss your point:
I don't think I agree or believe in the good old days.
Bjork is far more radical than Annie Lennox ever was.
These days there are exciting, unique projects about, a lot of them. The market is more dispersed and I think that's a good thing in many ways. Unique artists may not be as huge as the Eurythmics were but personally I prefer variety and numbers anyway.
Here are a small selection of other current artists, that I like, who I think truly defy the cookie cutter:
Lamb
Goldfrapp
Merz
Aphex Twin
Timo Maas
Moby
DJ Shadow
Rob Dougan
Craig Armstrong

I never was a great Annie Lennox fan anyway, although I do admire her individuality!


howdy

Knox 11th December 2002 12:19 AM

Did you read the short article in the new Rolling Stone with Joni Mitchell? She had some good comments about the sad state of of our business and the artists.

She said "it's very flashy, but it's souless. You look into the eyes of these people (singers). and you know they are looking at themselves in the mirror. There is nothing to them but their own image."

"We are drowning in images"

I feel she is right on the money.

thethrillfactor 11th December 2002 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Renie
ThrillFactor

I didn't see the awards, but to discuss your point:
I don't think I agree or believe in the good old days.
Bjork is far more radical than Annie Lennox ever was.
These days there are exciting, unique projects about, a lot of them. The market is more dispersed and I think that's a good thing in many ways. Unique artists may not be as huge as the Eurythmics were but personally I prefer variety and numbers anyway.
Here are a small selection of other current artists, that I like, who I think truly defy the cookie cutter:
Lamb
Goldfrapp
Merz
Aphex Twin
Timo Maas
Moby
DJ Shadow
Rob Dougan
Craig Armstrong

I never was a great Annie Lennox fan anyway, although I do admire her individuality!


howdy

Hi Renie,

Bjork started out with the Sugarcubes(late 80's early 90's), at least they played them here in the states on the radio. Bjork gets no airplay anymore(sad but true). Not even on college radio.

I think on your lists Bjork and Moby(which i do know personally, and probably everybody in the East Village does too) are exceptions.

They are really 90's artists, so they have an established fan base already. Here in the states if you are not part of the cookie cutter machine, you will get no airplay. I know its different over the pond(you guys have your own problems with airplay).

I know there is tons of cool stuff out there, but without exposure you might as well be doing it for yourself as a hobby(which I guess is fine if that's what you like).

Record sales were way down last year(almost half the year before). This will hurt everybody(us engineers and producers too). Labels will take less chances, which means less money and more cookie cutter/formula stuff.

Growing up my favorite label was Sire.

Depeche Mode,Echo and the Bunnymen,Madonna,Seal,Aztec Camera, the list goes on and on. They always took chances(even though I have heard crazy stories about the head honcho).

Where is the next Sire records going to come from?

Your opinion about Annie Lennox is how I feel about Moby(even though he is warm and intelligent person). I loved his dance music early on. but after the whole James Bond fiasco, I kinda lost a little respect for him. But at least he is still trying and doing well again.

More power to you brother!!!kfhkh

thethrillfactor 11th December 2002 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Growing up my favorite label was Sire.

Depeche Mode,Echo and the Bunnymen,Madonna,Seal,Aztec Camera, the list goes on and on. They always took chances(even though I have heard crazy stories about the head honcho).

Where is the next Sire records going to come from?


Almost forgot the Cure and the Smiths.

Renie 11th December 2002 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi Renie,

Bjork started out with the Sugarcubes(late 80's early 90's), at least they played them here in the states on the radio. Bjork gets no airplay anymore(sad but true). Not even on college radio.

I think on your lists Bjork and Moby(which i do know personally, and probably everybody in the East Village does too) are exceptions.

They are really 90's artists, so they have an established fan base already. Here in the states if you are not part of the cookie cutter machine, you will get no airplay. I know its different over the pond(you guys have your own problems with airplay).

I know there is tons of cool stuff out there, but without exposure you might as well be doing it for yourself as a hobby(which I guess is fine if that's what you like).

Record sales were way down last year(almost half the year before). This will hurt everybody(us engineers and producers too). Labels will take less chances, which means less money and more cookie cutter/formula stuff.

Growing up my favorite label was Sire.

Depeche Mode,Echo and the Bunnymen,Madonna,Seal,Aztec Camera, the list goes on and on. They always took chances(even though I have heard crazy stories about the head honcho).

Where is the next Sire records going to come from?

Your opinion about Annie Lennox is how I feel about Moby(even though he is warm and intelligent person). I loved his dance music early on. but after the whole James Bond fiasco, I kinda lost a little respect for him. But at least he is still trying and doing well again.

More power to you brother!!!kfhkh

Thrillfactor

If you mean me as 'brother' I'm a 'sister'! Hey Annie would approve!
Maybe you meant Moby anyway...

All I know is my own experience. Music is more exciting than ever these days.
There is more variety and diversity and access to different sorts of music than ever before. There are people who make livings doing their music but they may not be household names. You don't have to be either huge or a hobbyist there's plenty in between, same with producers and engineers.

I think sometimes people associate their own musical youth as the best, most valid time.:)


More power to you bro'!!

Jay Kahrs 12th December 2002 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Renie

Here are a small selection of other current artists, that I like, who I think truly defy the cookie cutter:
Lamb
Goldfrapp
Merz
Aphex Twin
Timo Maas
Moby
DJ Shadow
Rob Dougan
Craig Armstrong

Aren't most of those electronica? There's very little chance of many of those crossing into the mainstream. Aphex Twin and DJ Shadow are probably the closest. Moby is an exception. But what about people that play instruments? Where do Modest Mouse and Built to Spill fit into all of this?

Renie 12th December 2002 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Aren't most of those electronica? There's very little chance of many of those crossing into the mainstream. Aphex Twin and DJ Shadow are probably the closest. Moby is an exception. But what about people that play instruments? Where do Modest Mouse and Built to Spill fit into all of this?

I'm not sure what your point is. The list there includes people who sing and play and compose traditional instruments aswell as samplists and producers.
They don't "chart" number ones but they are all usually stocked in regular record stores in the UK. In my books that's mainstream enough.

Jay Kahrs 12th December 2002 05:54 AM

I guess my definition of mainstream is a bit different. If someone is getting radio play on something other then college radio I'd call it mainstream.

thethrillfactor 12th December 2002 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Renie
Thrillfactor

If you mean me as 'brother' I'm a 'sister'! Hey Annie would approve!
Maybe you meant Moby anyway...

All I know is my own experience. Music is more exciting than ever these days.
There is more variety and diversity and access to different sorts of music than ever before. There are people who make livings doing their music but they may not be household names. You don't have to be either huge or a hobbyist there's plenty in between, same with producers and engineers.

I think sometimes people associate their own musical youth as the best, most valid time.:)


More power to you bro'!!

Hi Renie,

The bro comment was addressed at Moby.

I hear what you are saying.

I meant people who aspire to take their music or talent to a bigger audience.

If you do for it yourself and enjoy it, then more power to you.kfhkh

Its just most people dream of something bigger(I know this is a big generalization, but i know its partly true). But if the doors are closed to them eventually the spirit will die out.

Most of the artists you named while popular in the UK, are very unpopular here. Even though they are popular there I am sure they wouldn't mind expanding their audience. But right now here in the states those avenues are just shut down. And I know its done on purpose, a "business decision" so you buy what they want you to buy.grudge

delta9 12th December 2002 09:02 PM

Quote:

Caught a little bit of the Billboard awards...
... and it was boring as hell!!!
You obviously missed Cher's little speech.

The censors were sleeping as well.

Renie 12th December 2002 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi Renie,

The bro comment was addressed at Moby.

I hear what you are saying.

I meant people who aspire to take their music or talent to a bigger audience.

If you do for it yourself and enjoy it, then more power to you.kfhkh

Its just most people dream of something bigger(I know this is a big generalization, but i know its partly true). But if the doors are closed to them eventually the spirit will die out.

Most of the artists you named while popular in the UK, are very unpopular here. Even though they are popular there I am sure they wouldn't mind expanding their audience. But right now here in the states those avenues are just shut down. And I know its done on purpose, a "business decision" so you buy what they want you to buy.grudge


That is a shame if radio is closed that way. Somehow innovative UK artists seem to be breaking into the US via soundtracks.

Maybe if Bjork did something more radio friendly they'd play it, she maybe doesn't care much about the US market.

What artists do you feel are missing from the US playlists?
and why do you think the music they make is being excluded?

Knox 13th December 2002 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Renie
Maybe if Bjork did something more radio friendly they'd play it, she maybe doesn't care much about the US market.

What artists do you feel are missing from the US playlists?
and why do you think the music they make is being excluded?

Renie,
US radio is a sad, sad thing. You have college stations that play alternative rock (it's ****ty bands that can hardly play, so they call it alternative) . . . pop stations that play the most useless crap over and over like some sort of World War II torture (Creed, Britney Spears). "Classic Rock" stations that play Rush and Steve Miller Band over and over (Oh BOY!).

Hip hop and R&B stations aside.

About the hippest thing you may find from time to time is a college station that has a REAL jazz hour or on Sunday a college station that may do a "get down" black gospel show.

Radio is very segregated in formats over here. In the sixties it was wonderful! You would hear Aretha Franklin, Wilson Pickett and James Brown in between Beatles, Stones and Dusty Springfield tracks.

btw . . . I saw Bjork do something with an orchestra once on tv that was chillingly beautiful. She is an original.

blackcatdigi 13th December 2002 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by delta9
You obviously missed Cher's little speech.

The censors were sleeping as well.

Yup. Guess thats a milestone. First time I ever heard that word on a national broadcast. Of course, they caught it everytime when Puddle of Mud played...