Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Q+A with Charles Dye (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-charles-dye/)
-   -   Drum Buss, output levels (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-charles-dye/15171-drum-buss-output-levels.html)

wallace 6th May 2004 04:29 PM

Drum Buss, output levels
 
I was wondering, for those who are squashing their drum buss tracks and sending other tracks into the buss as well, how are you dealing with large peaks you're getting on the master fader (maybe 3 or 5 db)? Do you have to pull your master fader way down, and are you having to compress everything else to get it to come through in the mix?

Do you let your levels go into the red on individual tracks (not on the master fader)?

seedee701 7th May 2004 01:14 AM

for me no red lights ever
master bus fader always at 0db

i like to leave headroom in the beginning and work my way up during the mix
if I don't get to the top i'll use the L2 until it hits almost zero on the masterbus and try to stay away from the mastering-engineer's job.

when the mix is 'done' an i hit some occasional peaks in the busses i first try if i can get rid of those by inverting the phase on one of the channels that causes the transient, just during that peak. often this can do the job. if not i need to automate volume at the offending transient.

most of the time it's bd or snare toghether with bass or vox causing the peak.

5down1up 7th May 2004 06:57 PM

no red light here either ...

i am tracking -14/-18 dbfs so that leaves enough headroom ( most times ) on the individual tracks . if i receive really " hot " tracked parts i am ending up using the trim feature to bring the levels down .

if there are what you call peakes in the material i am gonna use em as a reference and build around it levelwise .

using compression is a matter of taste . overprocessing can easily change the attitude of the whole song or material . even if its just a " few db " of compression on every single track .

according to drumbus compression :

i start most of the time 0db on the original -10db on the compressed drum buss ( if required ) .

hope that helps ?

boing boing boing

Guitarman 22nd May 2004 02:46 AM

Re: Drum Buss, output levels
 
Quote:

Originally posted by wallace
I was wondering, for those who are squashing their drum buss tracks and sending other tracks into the buss as well, how are you dealing with large peaks you're getting on the master fader (maybe 3 or 5 db)? Do you have to pull your master fader way down, and are you having to compress everything else to get it to come through in the mix?

Do you let your levels go into the red on individual tracks (not on the master fader)?

Drums should always be in the red for maximum output and S/N ratio

LTA 22nd May 2004 03:38 AM

Re: Drum Buss, output levels
 
Quote:

Originally posted by wallace
I was wondering, for those who are squashing their drum buss tracks and sending other tracks into the buss as well, how are you dealing with large peaks you're getting on the master fader (maybe 3 or 5 db)? Do you have to pull your master fader way down, and are you having to compress everything else to get it to come through in the mix?

Do you let your levels go into the red on individual tracks (not on the master fader)?

If i'm compressing individual tracks, i try to adjust the output gain on the compressor so that it is at a similar volume as when the compressor is bypassed. I just like to a/b things, and not having to mess with volumes makes that easier to do. So, in my case, a compressed track will actually be less in-the-red than the uncompressed track. I'm not really into boosting everything up to 0dBfs and then backing it off on the channel or master fader. It just seems counterproductive, although some plugs and hardware do sound interesting when driven right to the limit (and sometimes well beyond).

Especially mixing percussion/drums in digital, i've resorted to using RMS metering. Generally i'll just put a plug with both peak and rms metering into the master bus inserts, and keep that window open. Soloing individual tracks will still hit the meter. I will just set my initial volumes to rms the same way the analog Vu guys have always done it, rather than dealing with peak meters. There is just such a huge difference between peak and rms readings on percussion, that you need to kind of be aware of both.

If i had my da converter and playback system calibrated to -14dBfs rms = 0 Vu, i'd probably start with the kick and snare around -20dBfs RMS (equating to about -6 Vu on an analog desk). Peak meters are good to see how close to clipping you are, but they aren't very 'musical.' But, starting where i start, i usually end up within a few dB of where i want to be in the end. Works for me, but probably doesn't answer your question.

juniorhifikit 22nd May 2004 03:55 PM

I've found that when mixing ITB and I insert my SSL on one of the drum subs, when the compressor sounds "right", the transient response is HUGE! There are these transients that are like 24dB above the average level. In the analog world, these get trimmed off (distorted?) by the next amplifier stage - sounds good/no problem. In digital, those transients sound bad - really bad. Red lights everywhere! Or, you have to back the level down to a point where you can't even hear that drum sub.

Thinking like an analog mixer, I put an L1 or TC MasterX after the inserted SSL to trim the peaks like analog does inherently. Not sure if I like the sound yet. It's different than what happens when I sum crazy stuff in analog.

Is this what you were referring to?

Charles Dye 23rd May 2004 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by juniorhifikit
Thinking like an analog mixer, I put an L1 or TC MasterX after the inserted SSL to trim the peaks like analog does inherently. Not sure if I like the sound yet. It's different than what happens when I sum crazy stuff in analog.
jhfk,

Maybe Analog Channel AC1 would work + might sound more like how you do it in analog.

juniorhifikit 23rd May 2004 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Charles Dye
jhfk,

Maybe Analog Channel AC1 would work + might sound more like how you do it in analog.

I have those (AC1 & AC2) and have been playing around with them, but I haven't had enough down time to experiment. I've also just downloaded the new/improved Impact plugin, so hopefully I can find some free time to compare it to my SSL. Maybe I can post some comparison files.