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-   -   New Neve 1073 vs. Vintage... (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/142852-new-neve-1073-vs-vintage.html)

Johnkenn 4th September 2007 01:19 AM

New Neve 1073 vs. Vintage...
 
I guess this is kind of an unanswerable question, but after using a real 1073 again, I'm starting to think I just need to go ahead and get it over with. Have any of you guys used the AMS-Neve re-issues, or the DPA? Have you compared them to the vintage models? I know every vintage model kind of has it's own thing, but do they have the same kick ass characteristics? Going vintage kind of scares me...it just seems you never know what you're going to get...

wmitty 4th September 2007 03:04 AM

I can tell a difference between the vintage models and the clones but i can tell you right now most people who listen probably can't.

Vintage King is safe. Mike Nehra is a great guy.

Johnkenn 4th September 2007 04:21 AM

By clones, are you talking about the GR's, Vintech's, etc., or the Neve 1073 vr's?

Nama 4th September 2007 05:09 AM

I am very interested in the topic as well.
Have anyone used AMS NEVE's classic series 1073s?
What is close and what is not close?

hle144 4th September 2007 07:38 AM

For all intensive purposes, I can't really tell a difference. They both sound great.

Buying a Neve reissue or clone is a great idea, BUT, if you decide that you don't like it or forgot about a phantom payment, you probably will not get what you paid for it. Why should you? I can buy a new one with warranty. You will take a hit if you decide to sell.

Not so with vintage modules, as long as they are in good shape and working, you will ALWAYS get what you paid if not more. The extra you might spend on vintage modules
assures a guarenteed resale value.

yingyangpeachh

raal 4th September 2007 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hle144 (Post 1476070)
Not so with vintage modules, as long as they are in good shape and working, you will ALWAYS get what you paid if not more. The extra you might spend on vintage modules assures a guarenteed resale value.

yingyangpeachh

i agree to a point as to the immediate resale value, but the AMS ones will one day be vintage too. i haven't heard them as i only have vintage ones, but i hear from people i believe that they are extremely close.

if you can get vintage ones, fine. i wouldn't pay a premium for them though. i've been able to get my vintage ones at competitive prices, if not i would've gone for the new ones.

fwiw i did null tests between my 2 X 1084s and 3 X EQH2s. they nulled a good amount, but nothing like both sides of an SSL FX384. my theory is the SSL was manufactured with more modern methods, on the same day, by the same person, therefore more repeatable results. the pultecs are in good shape as are the 1084s. 2 pultecs have triad and 1 pult has peerless Xformer. this one nulls out less than the other two with ea. other

the reason i bring all this up is because, seeing as the vintage boxes are not exact clones of each other, i can't see the new ones being that much different. i also did null tests with a new LA2 and a vintage one for example, and they nulled about the same amount as the pults and neves did, so i'm extrapolating, but really speaking i can't see the vintage ones having that much more mojo than the new ones (unless older caps,etc. contribute to this).

in short, if they cost the same i'd go for vintage. if the new ones are cheaper, i'd get those. that's why my 2nd LA2 and 1176 are recent issue.

RoundBadge 4th September 2007 10:16 AM

I have the old ones.. new ones and the Averills.
someone offered me 9 grand for a pair of original 1084's the other daymezed.
they're all so close.
I feel the newer ones are maybe a teeny tad cleaner.which ain't really a bad thing.
splitting hairs though.
IMO,the averills are interchangable with the real ones and half the price.
there's some for sale in the GS classifieds for around 1950.00 apiece.
[GS name:alexstringer]

real ones are up around 3800.00 for a single now.
get a pair from Averill..if you don't like em..send em back.
you'll probably like em though.peachh

AB3 4th September 2007 11:44 AM

Roundbadge - which is best- the 1073 or 1084 Averill's?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge (Post 1476178)
I have the old ones.. new ones and the Averills.
someone offered me 9 grand for a pair of original 1084's the other daymezed.
they're all so close.
I feel the newer ones are maybe a teeny tad cleaner.which ain't really a bad thing.
splitting hairs though.
IMO,the averills are interchangable with the real ones and half the price.


Trp 4th September 2007 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB3 (Post 1476231)
which is best- the 1073 or 1084 Averill's?

They share the exactly same preamp. With the 1084s you just pay extra for more EQ points and the High-Q button for the mid band.

Johnkenn 4th September 2007 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundBadge (Post 1476178)
I have the old ones.. new ones and the Averills.
someone offered me 9 grand for a pair of original 1084's the other daymezed.
they're all so close.
I feel the newer ones are maybe a teeny tad cleaner.which ain't really a bad thing.
splitting hairs though.
IMO,the averills are interchangable with the real ones and half the price.
there's some for sale in the GS classifieds for around 1950.00 apiece.
[GS name:alexstringer]

real ones are up around 3800.00 for a single now.
get a pair from Averill..if you don't like em..send em back.
you'll probably like em though.peachh

Thanks, man - that confirms it for me...

RoundBadge 4th September 2007 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trp (Post 1476244)
They share the exactly same preamp. With the 1084s you just pay extra for more EQ points and the High-Q button for the mid band.

thumbsup

1084's are my fav..love having the low pass filters as well..very handy.

666666 4th September 2007 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raal (Post 1476161)
...if they cost the same i'd go for vintage...

But remember of course that most vintage gear will have technical issues. Unless you are a tech and can fix this stuff yourself properly, in my opinion it is worth extra loot as well as worth the depreciation factor just to have something that is brand new and under warrantee.

I had four beautiful vintage Neve 33114s a while ago. I was in love with these modules, I had planned on taking them to my grave, I used them on everything. But then one day one of them flipped out, I had to get it repaired which was a pain in the a$$. Then another flipped out a month later. Then, over the next several months, they all started having issues, some had to be repaired several times... I actually lost some great takes because one or more would start crackling onto tape, etc. Guess what... they went BYE BYE, had to sell `em, even as much as I loved them sonically.

Had several other cool vintage pieces as well, they ALSO went down and required repair. Have no time to be sending all this stuff off for repair, trying to make music after all.... that IS the goal... I think.

I wish I had studied electronics earlier on so I could repair this stuff myself... oh well... I'll just need to stick to NEW reissue gear, that's all... not so bad really.

bumpkin

GYang 4th September 2007 05:12 PM

Ah real headache. hjghfgg
Forget 1073 or whatever vintage.
With so many nice offers nowdays, 3-4 different flavors will do more fun and service in long run.
Yes, some will tell that nothing sounds like Neve, same is true for Tab Funkenwerk, Great River, Wunder, Shadow Hills, Daking, Martech, BAE, A-Design, Phoenix etc., etc.
If you already think about selling pre that you don't owe yet, than yes go with vintage, they sell like hot cakes heh

robot gigante 4th September 2007 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 666666 (Post 1476527)
But remember of course that most vintage gear will have technical issues. Unless you are a tech and can fix this stuff yourself properly, in my opinion it is worth extra loot as well as worth the depreciation factor just to have something that is brand new and under warrantee.

I had four beautiful vintage Neve 33114s a while ago. I was in love with these modules, I had planned on taking them to my grave, I used them on everything. But then one day one of them flipped out, I had to get it repaired which was a pain in the a$$. Then another flipped out a month later. Then, over the next several months, they all started having issues, some had to be repaired several times... I actually lost some great takes because one or more would start crackling onto tape, etc. Guess what... they went BYE BYE, had to sell `em, even as much as I loved them sonically.

Had several other cool vintage pieces as well, they ALSO went down and required repair. Have no time to be sending all this stuff off for repair, trying to make music after all.... that IS the goal... I think.

I wish I had studied electronics earlier on so I could repair this stuff myself... oh well... I'll just need to stick to NEW reissue gear, that's all... not so bad really.

bumpkin

Been using original 1073's racked up by Averill for a number of years (got 'em back before prices went through the roof). I can count the number of issues with the pair I've been using on the first three fingers of my right hand... and every time Averill has been amazingly fast and great at getting them repaired. Maybe I've been lucky with them. I've had issues with new gear just as much as with these. FWIW.

Haven't used the AMS- does the EQ section sound pretty identical to the originals also?

84K 4th September 2007 06:54 PM

We have original 1081s, 1073s, & 1057 modules, sheps, new AMS Neve 1081s, 1073s, Chandler, etc. The biggest difference, half the originals need to get the EQ switches fixed, and the other half are being fixed as I type this. I would go new.

Koed 4th September 2007 08:49 PM

As far as my ears can tell there's not much difference between the classic 1073's I've heard (..and that's only two units) and the DPA/DPD versions.
Classics had maybe a bit more soul, but that might have been dirt :)
The trannies might be a little cleaner on the new versions, but I think that suits the current recording style.
Oh and the AMS Neve's are rock solid and feel like they're going to last just as long (or longer) then the classics.

My point being, that if you're into the classic gear stuff.. just buy the original.
If you're after that sound and want something that'll last you a lifetime.. get the new ones.

Nama 6th September 2007 04:18 PM

very interesting. Thank you all.

Johnkenn 6th September 2007 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koed (Post 1477064)
The trannies might be a little cleaner on the new versions, but I think that suits the current recording style.

I do like my trannies clean...

heyman 6th September 2007 05:14 PM

There are even some purist that dispute that the quality of iron that was once available is no longer..

hey, anything is possible..

stike

Johnkenn 1st October 2007 02:49 AM

So - I'm just using this for vocals and I really don't track with the EQ that much - I figure if you need to EQ the hell out of a vocal while tracking, you're using the wrong mic. Are the DPA's the same exact thing as the reissue 1073's sans the EQ?

For those of you with the experience - would you feel comfortable going with the Averill 1073 over the Neve reissue?

Thanks for the help -
John

Nama 1st October 2007 03:02 AM

Hi, I don't think you are using a wrong mic if you have to EQ on the way thorough.
That is way you need a good analog EQ.
It is the job of the engineer to get things done quick, and let singers hear good tone in their headphones.
The EQ on the 1073 is a killer. Very musical.

Of course, I'm talking about a couple of DBs little pro touch. jkthtyrt

RoundBadge 1st October 2007 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnkenn (Post 1532127)
So - I'm just using this for vocals and I really don't track with the EQ that much - I figure if you need to EQ the hell out of a vocal while tracking, you're using the wrong mic. Are the DPA's the same exact thing as the reissue 1073's sans the EQ?

For those of you with the experience - would you feel comfortable going with the Averill 1073 over the Neve reissue?

Thanks for the help -
John

Its nice to have the neve eq..
makes the thing a more versatile tool.you never know. the filters alone are very,very handy.
plus, it sure is great to have the extra EQ on an insert or whatever come mixtime.

I use the Averills next to the originals all the time..no-one has ever complained

danocaster 1st October 2007 06:03 AM

I cant speak about 1073s but I do have very recent experience w/ 1272s

I have an orig 1272 racked by BA - and recently bought another pair - expecting them to be VERY similar. I do like them but they are VERY different

So much so that I made some quick WAV files and sent them to a few friends : Am I crazy ? Do these sound pretty different ?? Everyone agrees that they sound VERY different

I have the wavs - just a 20 second clip of a clean gtr - than overdriven - w/ each pre

it was recorded pretty scientifically and is pretty telling - both good - very different

If anyone has web space to post the files - I would gladly send them. Could be of interest to everyone. Maybe the 1073s are more similar but my experience w/ the 1272s are they are different flavors - good but SURPRISINGLY different

Johnkenn 1st October 2007 03:32 PM

You can add them here on this site...or are they too big?

danocaster 1st October 2007 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnkenn (Post 1532944)
You can add them here on this site...or are they too big?

Currently they are 24 / 48 wavs. I guess I could bounce them to MP3s

Can you post WAVs ?? MP3s are just a crappy way to do comparisons but they still do the job , I guess

Nrt 31st October 2007 07:43 AM

I have a pair of original 1084 racked by Brent. I rented them to my friend who has Brent 1084 repros when he was doing a big project. He said they sound very different. I know the PSU makes a huge difference, but he used the same Brent (PowerOne?) PSU, so the difference is not from the PSU. He said the repro sound like RELIC.... Not clean but not vintage.

narcoman 31st October 2007 10:51 AM

i have four vintage 1073's and one set of DPAs. The vintage units are as different from EACH OTHER as they are the DPA's. Not a huge difference but it's there, between the vintage units to each other and the DPA so - ostensibly - there is NO difference between a vintage 1073 and a DPA. The diference is between individual units. I have not had the opportunity to check if different DPAs sound the same or difference. I'm sure they are very close and will slowly drift the minute difference apart as age sets in - the same with all things.....

bforest4 31st October 2007 06:50 PM

How does the Chandler LTD-1 compare to a vintage Neve and how close are they to each other? They seem like another good cheaper alternative, especially used.

Sarusan 31st October 2007 09:52 PM

My experience is is similar to Narcoman's. I brought a pair of the new modules into Cello Studio 2 a couple of years ago. They sounded identical to a third of the originals in the console. There were many mods and component changes during manufacturing which are audible, though IMO negligible. The difference in the originals is "good enough for rock and roll"- far less than the difference say between any two 1176s.

If I were spending the money, I'd buy new ones. Many of the forty year old modules have major PITA switch issues that require regular maintenance. With many reissues out there, corners were cut but Neve did everything right with these modules.

Steven

Nrt 12th December 2008 06:14 AM

I'm buying more original Neve modules. I'm wondering why people here who claim vintage and clone sound almost the same don't sell their vintage 1073 for new ones...