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-   -   Surround monitor upgrade - options, opinions (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/1317640-surround-monitor-upgrade-options-opinions.html)

spiderman 6th July 2020 03:36 PM

Surround monitor upgrade - options, opinions
 
Have used Dynaudio BM5a with Dynaudio BM9s (sub) for many years, and have had much success with them. Still... I feel it may be time for an upgrade in the next 12-18 months. (provided the world doesn't completely collapse)

Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.

But... what else should I consider? I feel a portion of that price is paying for the name/logo. Are there other monitors to consider that have a higher level of detail than my current, no ear fatigue on long sessions, etc? Thoughts in general?

Also... I do an equal amount of music mixing (stereo). The room is small/mid-size (23x20x12 ish) and well treated. Currently have excellent results on REW measurements, and am translating well in theaters and on broadcast. The upgrade is more of a search for greater detail and imaging.

philper 6th July 2020 03:44 PM

Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!

spiderman 6th July 2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philper (Post 14841870)
Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!

Didn't even realize they were in the near-field market. Only heard them in Live Sound stuff. HD-1 look interesting! (and also super expensive gooof)

spiderman 6th July 2020 03:57 PM

Ocean Way PRO2a? Anyone?

NReichman 6th July 2020 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 14841856)
Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.

If you spend that much, you have to compare. But I spent a couple of weeks mixing in 5.1 on 8351A's and I definitely felt like they were speakers you could mix on for twenty years. They were unforgiving in the detail they exposed in the midrange, they were even at all monitoring levels. Truly fantastic speakers. I guess the only thing to consider is whether you would want an all-analog path into the speakers. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that they A/D and D/A convert on the analog in. I was using the digital ins.

dr.sound 6th July 2020 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philper (Post 14841870)
Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!

That's what everyday is like at "The Dub Stage".
It makes you work harder because there is nowhere to hide,
but the end result is amazing!!
Meyer speakers are the best!
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else
and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.

spiderman 6th July 2020 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.sound (Post 14842058)
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else, and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.

So what would you suggest then?

philper 7th July 2020 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.sound (Post 14842058)
That's what everyday is like at "The Dub Stage".
It makes you work harder because there is nowhere to hide,
but the end result is amazing!!
Meyer speakers are the best!
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else
and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.


They'd keep you very honest, that's for sure. In the nearer field and more budg-friendly zone I see a lot of JBL series 7.

Andrew Mottl 8th July 2020 07:47 AM

I would recommend looking into or even giving PSI a listen, A21 or others depending on size and budget.

gotsoul 8th July 2020 12:06 PM

Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank

originalscottyg 8th July 2020 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsoul (Post 14845430)
Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank

I've been mixing post on a stereo set of SCM25a and I find they have been translating very well for me, although I have been at home on a set of PMC TB2s+ since the lockdown and those don't translate as well, particularly on dialog. For me, the ATCs have been a revelation and are definitely the best speaker I've ever worked on. We demo'ed a number of speakers in the room, including JBL 708p, Genelec 8351, Neumann KH310, PMC TwoTwo.8, and the ATCs were the hands down winners.

We have plans to eventually gut and rebuild my room at the studio to a 7.1.4 Atmos/immersive room based on SCM25a LCR and SCM20ASL surrounds and heights. This setup just barely meets Dolby's DARDT recommendations for SPL given the size of the room and the monitor level. But this room would primarily be a pre-mix room for themed attractions and installations that would be finaled on-site.

kosmokrator 9th July 2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 14841856)
Have used Dynaudio BM5a with Dynaudio BM9s (sub) for many years, and have had much success with them. Still... I feel it may be time for an upgrade in the next 12-18 months. (provided the world doesn't completely collapse)

Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.

But... what else should I consider? I feel a portion of that price is paying for the name/logo. Are there other monitors to consider that have a higher level of detail than my current, no ear fatigue on long sessions, etc? Thoughts in general?

Also... I do an equal amount of music mixing (stereo). The room is small/mid-size (23x20x12 ish) and well treated. Currently have excellent results on REW measurements, and am translating well in theaters and on broadcast. The upgrade is more of a search for greater detail and imaging.

The Genelecs are super fine speakers.
Also to consider are PMC IB2 or Neumann KH420. All remarkable speakers.

Something like the JBL708 don't come even close.

deedeeyeah 9th July 2020 01:10 PM

as much as i like the kh neumann's, coax speakers rule! there's not too much of a choice though...

quadraphonics 9th July 2020 06:13 PM

The powered JBL 708ps also have some quality control issues...

Randall


Quote:

Originally Posted by kosmokrator (Post 14847327)
The Genelecs are super fine speakers.
Also to consider are PMC IB2 or Neumann KH420. All remarkable speakers.

Something like the JBL708 don't come even close.


pentagon 10th July 2020 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotsoul (Post 14845430)
Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank

I work on the score mixing side with ATC (100ASL surround) and when the mixes are played back on dub stages (Meyer Acheron or JBL theatrical ATMOS), they have translated exactly. I have friends in the commercial audio/library track side with 5 rooms of LCR ATC SCM25A plus 2x ATC SCM20ASL and those have worked out for them for years (they've done the work for many Super Bowl ads, for instance.)

However... if I was strictly in re-recording mix, I'd go with a 2-way or 2-way plus sub solution from JBL or Meyer. Compression driver horns sound different from the soft dome (though they can translate).

Audiosexual 10th July 2020 09:49 AM

If you want to scale down the budget but remain very close to the performance of Genelec's 8351Bs you could check out the 8341s ... 110 dB SPL should be enough ... ;-) And 38 Hz as -6 dB point.

Polyh3dron 26th July 2020 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraphonics (Post 14848074)
The powered JBL 708ps also have some quality control issues...

Randall

I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?

spiderman 26th July 2020 12:05 PM

I see a lot of places selling these ADAM Audio surround packages; 5 A8X or 5 S2V with subs. I've not met anyone who used ADAM in a multichannel setup though. Thoughts on ADAM for audio post?

pentagon 26th July 2020 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman
I've not met anyone who used ADAM in a multichannel setup though. Thoughts on ADAM for audio post?

That was way common for music/sound editorial at one point in LA. My theory was dealers were getting a big kickback for Adam promotions/packages. For instance, all of 2pop’s rooms at the Warner Post Pro building were Adam surround setups.
I haven’t seen anyone recently doing Adams any more. (I don’t like them)

TheMuffinMan01 26th July 2020 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyh3dron (Post 14879565)
I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?

I really really love the 708P's I have for LCR sound quality wise, but I have definitely had QC issues. Early on one of the three was distorting/chuffing with super low bass, so it was replaced. Late last year I began to have issues with my centre channel software freezing and needing a restart each morning, until it would no longer boot the software at all (and thus not pass audio). It went to the local factory twice for repairs and both times the issue persisted after it came back. I'm now using a loaner. I also had low bass distortion with one of my rear 705Ps early on and that was replaced too. These were all very early in the manufacturing though, late 2017, so maybe things have smoothed out a bit. Luckily issues have been under warranty so far but I can't say I'm not a bit rattled. TBH though I would buy them again because of how truly amazing (and cinematic) they sound, the DSP (.1 ms delays, 14 bands of EQ) and the value.

quadraphonics 27th July 2020 02:28 PM

We have 3 7.1 rooms that use 708p. All of the speakers have gone back for Warranty issues. Either the speaker stops passing audio or it develops pops/ticks/distortion. A few of the speakers have gone back more than once.

Randall



Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyh3dron (Post 14879565)
I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?


philper 27th July 2020 04:19 PM

Yow--that's really too bad. I liked the sound of the 708s a lot and they've been on my list. But continually shipping speakers back, and needing to have a lot of spares (I guess) to keep working meanwhile is a deal breaker for me.

I don't know anyone using Adam speakers for post. If anyone could comment on how well they've worked out for them I'd appreciate it. I'd be looking at a small 5.1 system. Adam doesn't seem to have their own bass management+monitor control gear, so I'd be interested in knowing what Adam 5.1+ users are using to control their systems.

rcutz 30th July 2020 11:30 PM

My 7.1.4 atmos ht room is all adam - except the subs. All Ax series. My room was properly build, I have good converters (ax32) and I’ve got an very experience Enginier do made my alignment for me.
My mixes translates really, really well. I also did a 2 days finals in a private studio in LA last year with meyers LCR and it just went really well.
They are quite affordable compared to Genelecs.
Sometimes i fell they are to clinical in the high frequencies.
I once got a Genelec guy here, he made a visit of courtesy, really amable, walk me trough all genelec line that would fit my room and in the end, after listen to some stuff he ask me why I would replace my speakers? :)

siniarch 2nd August 2020 11:45 PM

Not sure if you pulled the trigger on this yet, but I watched this video and I certainly would love to try these out. Unfortunately they are way outside my budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1IibuZFBzk

I'm working on a mid/small room with JBL 708p LRC and 306pmkii on LsRs and I certainly love those 708p. Haven't had an issue with mine.

And I have a smaller room where I just got the 705p and they sound incredibly close to the 708p except for some of the lower frequencies of course. But awfully similar. These speakers are by far the best I've worked on, so that can tell you the level that I'm currently at. I bet to some more experienced people, these will be the bottom entry point. But those 420 & 870s sure would be nice to try out.

kosmokrator 6th August 2020 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siniarch (Post 14893538)
Not sure if you pulled the trigger on this yet, but I watched this video and I certainly would love to try these out. Unfortunately they are way outside my budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1IibuZFBzk

I'm working on a mid/small room with JBL 708p LRC and 306pmkii on LsRs and I certainly love those 708p. Haven't had an issue with mine.

And I have a smaller room where I just got the 705p and they sound incredibly close to the 708p except for some of the lower frequencies of course. But awfully similar. These speakers are by far the best I've worked on, so that can tell you the level that I'm currently at. I bet to some more experienced people, these will be the bottom entry point. But those 420 & 870s sure would be nice to try out.

we did a direct shootout between the JBP 708, the Neumann 420 and Genelec S360 a while back:
Test of new speakers for HT Atmos stage

siniarch 7th August 2020 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosmokrator (Post 14899966)
we did a direct shootout between the JBP 708, the Neumann 420 and Genelec S360 a while back:
Test of new speakers for HT Atmos stage

That's a great post, thanks for sharing.

And I figured that the Neumann 420 or the Genelec S360 would be better speakers, but the price difference is huge between those and the 708Ps.

I was able to get 2 used 708Ps for $2400 and a third one for $1600. So basically for $4000 total (no shipping or tax) I got my LCR. And they sound terrific. I hope one day I can afford those Numann 420s with their Subwoofer.

Thank you again for the post.

kosmokrator 7th August 2020 12:54 PM

That’s a great deal and should serve you well. As I mentioned in the other thread, just that the others are superior doesn’t mean the JBLs suck.
Sometimes you get what you pay for though, the Neumanns are simply in another league. Sound- and price-wise.

You can make absolutely great mixes on all of them.
Quote:

Originally Posted by siniarch (Post 14901434)
That's a great post, thanks for sharing.

And I figured that the Neumann 420 or the Genelec S360 would be better speakers, but the price difference is huge between those and the 708Ps.

I was able to get 2 used 708Ps for $2400 and a third one for $1600. So basically for $4000 total (no shipping or tax) I got my LCR. And they sound terrific. I hope one day I can afford those Numann 420s with their Subwoofer.

Thank you again for the post.


Polyh3dron 11th August 2020 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadraphonics (Post 14881704)
We have 3 7.1 rooms that use 708p. All of the speakers have gone back for Warranty issues. Either the speaker stops passing audio or it develops pops/ticks/distortion. A few of the speakers have gone back more than once.

Randall

Welp, my 708ps arrived today. Wish me luck with them!

siniarch 12th August 2020 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyh3dron (Post 14908317)
Welp, my 708ps arrived today. Wish me luck with them!

Congrats. I'm sure they will be fine. Mine were used and they still sound terrific.
My 705p also sound incredibly close to the 708p with a little less bass of course.

Polyh3dron 18th August 2020 10:38 PM

Question for 708p owners in this thread, since I don't know where else to post this:

The 708p manual mentions the existence of a "FRONT PANEL LED" option in its menu.

Quote:

FRONT PANEL LED – Select “DISABLED” to defeat the illumination of the front panel LED indicators.
I don't see that in the menu of my brand new straight-from-the-factory 708p speakers.

Is there any way to disable these LEDs? Is there some firmware update available for them that I can't seem to find?