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-   -   What hardware midi sequencers have these 2 features (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1316920-what-hardware-midi-sequencers-have-these-2-features.html)

bluegreengold 30th June 2020 05:31 PM

What hardware midi sequencers have these 2 features
 
1) It will record a sequence for as long as I don't press stop or it has memory left. Ie you don't need to set the sequence length in advance, you just play.

2) It will sync to DIN-sync, analog clock, or tape sync (FSK).

I know of only one hardware sequencer with these features combined. The korg SQD-1. Are there any others that I am missing?

bluegreengold 30th June 2020 07:45 PM

roland MC50, MC500

yamaha qx1 qx3 qx5

anything else?

sycokay 30th June 2020 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14830824)
tape sync (FSK)

Not helpful at all, just learned that something exists and seem to matter.

sycokay 30th June 2020 08:17 PM

Do you know this device?

https://medias.audiofanzine.com/file...c10-481653.pdf

Horstmaista 30th June 2020 10:05 PM

Not only a sequencer but: Synthstrom Deluge.

bluegreengold 30th June 2020 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horstmaista (Post 14831369)
Not only a sequencer but: Synthstrom Deluge.

My understanding was that you couldn't quite do that with the deluge, but I am not an expert. I been watching videos to try and figure this out and it's never quite explained. I see you can create a white track in the arrange mode, but will it just loop the rest of the tracks repeatedly while you can record to the white track real time without limit? It's not clear to me from watching videos. I thought that the white track would be limited to the length of the arrangement. If it worked for this, then that would be great.

bluegreengold 30th June 2020 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycokay (Post 14831158)

My concern is not to convert midi clock to tape sync, but rather avoid any use of midi clock at all. It is not good for synchronizing two sequencers.
Din sync, clock sync, tape sync are don't drift while midi clock inevitably does.

sycokay 30th June 2020 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831393)
rather avoid any use of midi clock at all. It is not good for synchronizing two sequencers.

While MIDI clock is with no doubt the worst of all, every digital sequencer with an analog clock input will have to count pulses over time and calculate bpm, which inevitably causes jitter and drift.

The quality of implementation varies. As a negative example, my RD-8 is as bad when slaved to midi clock as analog clock.

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycokay (Post 14831504)
While MIDI clock is with no doubt the worst of all, every digital sequencer with an analog clock input will have to count pulses over time and calculate bpm, which inevitably causes jitter and drift.

That is not true.

An external clock can simply drive the advance of the sequencer. No need to sync anything to it, or calculate timing. You just use the clock signal as the clock for the sequencer.
Even if you need more resolution than the clock signal, you can use frequency multipliers and never need to us a microprocessor to calculate anything.

One could design a sequencer that uses a microprocessor to count the pulse analog clock signal, but that would be a very poor idea. n A properly designed analog clock would have miniscule jitter and drift relative to a midi clock.


Quote:

Originally Posted by sycokay (Post 14831504)
The quality of implementation varies. As a negative example, my RD-8 is as bad when slaved to midi clock as analog clock.


I can't comment on the RD-8 but I would be pretty disappointed if a sequencer with a clock input can't properly sync to it. I've never had that issue with any of the gear I use.

Leighty 1st July 2020 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831389)
My understanding was that you couldn't quite do that with the deluge, but I am not an expert. I been watching videos to try and figure this out and it's never quite explained. I see you can create a white track in the arrange mode, but will it just loop the rest of the tracks repeatedly while you can record to the white track real time without limit? It's not clear to me from watching videos. I thought that the white track would be limited to the length of the arrangement. If it worked for this, then that would be great.

No it can work like Ableton clips when not in arrange mode. Think it meets your 1) requirement. It's a bit of button press in normal song/clip mode (pretty easy once u get used to it). Essentially u arm a track in a similar way to creating an audio clip and then you can record ur midi indefinitely. Look for videos on OS 3, this is when the functionality was added. Once stopped the track length is then set as per the record, but only for that track. So different instruments can have different track lengths. It was designed to work more like a looper. The ability to then edit ur midi sequence using the pads is great.

Ockeghem 1st July 2020 01:59 AM

Sequentix Cirklon?

terrible.dee 1st July 2020 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycokay (Post 14831158)

I use this thing

https://jlcooper.com/_manuals/legacy...ser_Manual.pdf

Got it for $10 at a junk shop, now I use it every day.

It's ROCK SOLID

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrible.dee (Post 14831719)
I use this thing

https://jlcooper.com/_manuals/legacy...ser_Manual.pdf

Got it for $10 at a junk shop, now I use it every day.

It's ROCK SOLID

Hey Dee.
Like I said before. I'm looking for SEQUENCERS that accept clock and can record real time midi tracks of indefinate length. kfhkh

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ockeghem (Post 14831703)
Sequentix Cirklon?

Max pattern length on the cirklon is 16 bars, no?

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighty (Post 14831663)
No it can work like Ableton clips when not in arrange mode. Think it meets your 1) requirement. It's a bit of button press in normal song/clip mode (pretty easy once u get used to it). Essentially u arm a track in a similar way to creating an audio clip and then you can record ur midi indefinitely. Look for videos on OS 3, this is when the functionality was added. Once stopped the track length is then set as per the record, but only for that track. So different instruments can have different track lengths. It was designed to work more like a looper. The ability to then edit ur midi sequence using the pads is great.

Ok this would be great as I have a deluge, it's just new to me... The clock sync is there, I just haven't learned how to get it to record midi indefinitely while looping. Would be great if I didn't need to add a 3rd sequencer to the mix :-)

Is it the live looping functionality that does what I need?

Ockeghem 1st July 2020 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831769)
Max pattern length on the cirklon is 16 bars, no?

There are two kinds of patterns, CK and P3.
From the manual:

“A P3 pattern is made up of between 1 and 16 bars, each bar holding 16 steps of the various row values described in the P3 pattern edit section.

In contrast, a CK pattern is stored as an “event list”. An event in this context refers to a MIDI message to be sent at a specific time. A CK pattern is a list of MIDI events – MIDI messages stamped with the time at which they should be sent during playback of the pattern.
[…]
The CK pattern can hold any number of events, from zero, up to the available limit of memory...”
You can probably put a Beethoven sonata into a CK pattern.kfhkh

Ockeghem 1st July 2020 04:41 AM

If you already have the Deluge, and the waiting list for Cirklon is long, I would explore that first. Don't be like those people who have both, I am one of those...cooge:facepalm:

sds1fs1r 1st July 2020 04:46 AM

The blackbox 1010 has both sync and midi in/out. It has a sequencer but I don't know its features.
Squarp pyramid has cv and gate in, does sync work with either of those?

Ockeghem 1st July 2020 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sds1fs1r (Post 14831902)
The blackbox 1010 has both sync and midi in/out. It has a sequencer but I don't know its features.
Squarp pyramid has cv and gate in, does sync work with either of those?

It might be an option. Some people sync it to their computers using USAMO or ER-M Multi-clock hardware.
But my vote is for Cirklon over the Squarp. More connectivity and features.

polybonk 1st July 2020 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycokay (Post 14831504)
While MIDI clock is with no doubt the worst of all, every digital sequencer with an analog clock input will have to count pulses over time and calculate bpm, which inevitably causes jitter and drift.

The quality of implementation varies. As a negative example, my RD-8 is as bad when slaved to midi clock as analog clock.

My ER-M Multi Clock fixes all that.
RD-8 is grid perfect.

Same with the Pyramid.

sds1fs1r 1st July 2020 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ockeghem (Post 14831916)
It might be an option. Some people sync it to their computers using USAMO or ER-M Multi-clock hardware.
But my vote is for Cirklon over the Squarp. More connectivity and features.

The regular cirklon has midi and usb only. Pyramid has midi,usb, cv/gate.

Ockeghem 1st July 2020 06:25 AM

Breakout box gives you additional cv outs, 16 I think (edited) plus 8 gate outs

terrible.dee 1st July 2020 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831765)
Hey Dee.
Like I said before. I'm looking for SEQUENCERS that accept clock and can record real time midi tracks of indefinate length. kfhkh

I know,

I was talking to the other guy.

Acid Mitch 1st July 2020 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831393)
It is not good for synchronizing two sequencers.
.

If it's not good then why does it work so well for myself and many others?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreengold (Post 14831393)
Din sync, clock sync, tape sync are don't drift while midi clock inevitably does.

Din sync is no different to Midi clock in that regard. What makes you think it acts differently?


Tape sync can also be less than perfect and with fsk you have the added disadvantage of having to start from bar 1 beat 1 all the time. Plus it needs an audio track which means it can not sync two sequencers, unless one of the sequencers is a daw or you use a daw or tape machine as the master.

wavejockey 1st July 2020 03:07 PM

the SDS digital Sequarellel - out this summer

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/sds-digital-sequarallel
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/vi...c.php?t=221705
http://www.freshnelly.com/sequarallel/sequarallel.htm

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid Mitch (Post 14832124)
If it's not good then why does it work so well for myself and many others?

I am not making any judgement about what is good for anyone else. Why are you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid Mitch (Post 14832124)
Din sync is no different to Midi clock in that regard. What makes you think it acts differently?

Your statement is false. There are far more sources of instability in a midi clock signal. DIN Sync is a clock pulse and a gate. No microprocessor is required, no calculations are required, in order to drive a sequencer with it. Now someone could invent a device that converts a DIN signal to midi or into esperanto and then do whatever they want with it, but that is not how better clock driven sequencers work.

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polybonk (Post 14831989)
My ER-M Multi Clock fixes all that.
RD-8 is grid perfect.

The erm does not fix that it just acts as a master clock for other sequencers. I have master midi clocks that are as tight as the ERM I am not looking for a clock or any clock convertor.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I am looking for a sequencer with DIN or analog clock inputs that can record real time playing indefinitely. People here are inventing other problems that I don't have.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


Quote:

Originally Posted by polybonk (Post 14831989)
Same with the Pyramid.

I forgot about the pyramid, mostly because it does far more than I need. But,
if you can clock it from analog and it will record realtime playing for as long as record is on with no predefining of measures, then I will consider it. I need to check the manual. thanks

So the squarp can be set to be clocked from the gate input. that is good, but it has a 384 bar maximum per sequence, which is about 11 minutes of realtime recording at 133. Not bad, not great. I would much prefer something that was memory dependent rather than bar dependent.... but it does look like a fun lil sequencer... might have to try it and keep an eye out for others.

pr0gr4m 1st July 2020 05:43 PM

Kawai Q-80 has tape sync, offers real-time recording and does not require defining a pattern length. The original holds a maximum of 26,000 notes and the Q-80ex is 52,000. I don't recall other possible limitations.

EDIT: I just checked out the Q-80 manual and each song can contain up to 15,000 "notes". Really, they mean midi events.

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0gr4m (Post 14832879)
Kawai Q-80 has tape sync, offers real-time recording and does not require defining a pattern length. The original holds a maximum of 26,000 notes and the Q-80ex is 52,000. I don't recall other possible limitations.

EDIT: I just checked out the Q-80 manual and each song can contain up to 15,000 "notes". Really, they mean midi events.

Cool. I may even have a q80ex in a closet or storage. It's been a long time since I used one and didn't recall it having tape sync. Makes sense though.

bluegreengold 1st July 2020 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polybonk (Post 14831989)
Same with the Pyramid.

Pyramid would be perfect if it wasn't limited to 10000 events a project! :-O
How absurd is that.

I just counted the events in a 2 minute performance of a Schubert impromptu:
29604 events!!!!

Of course I don't typically play that many notes, so I'm sure I could work within the boundaries, but I'm pretty disappointed with the pyramids event and bar limits. Maybe the next version?