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-   -   Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1314272-apple-announce-arm-chips-all-macs.html)

osk 10th June 2020 12:59 AM

Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs
 
Apple plans to announce ARM transition for all Macs at WWDC 2020

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...event_0329.jpg

At its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) later this month, Apple plans to announce the beginning of its transition from Intel-based Macs to ARM-based ones with internally designed CPUs.

According to today's report, though, Apple plans to transition its entire line, from MacBooks to the Mac Pro—albeit not all at once. The report doesn't indicate which machines will hit the market first, only that Apple plans to bring this change to all Macs at some point.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020...-at-wwdc-2020/

Once again we will be facing two, three years of incompatible, badly adapted software, and another massive culling of applications that won't be ported at all.

I can't hardly wait..

How many plugins, software we will lose?

Are you a developer? What's your take on the news?

Should you buy a intel Mac knowing this now?

Is this the end of hackintosh and boot camp?

Did you invest 40K on the latest Mac Pro Intel based system?

Please discuss

cisc0kid 10th June 2020 01:05 AM

Big changes coming...

Shaman 10th June 2020 01:51 AM

glad I did not buy the first generation mac pro;)

other than that it´s a pretty logical decision and most of us will profit from faster, cooler and more efficient macs.

also pretty good for all of us, who are logic pro users.

hackintosh guys will move into windows land and call it a day.

Musician 10th June 2020 02:16 AM

Does not need to be a bad thing with better power management and all that but of course they will get more control on both the chip and software running on it: https://www.imore.com/what-arm-chip-...-macs-get-them

beau_mckee 10th June 2020 02:46 AM

Having known this was around the corner for some time, we bought the Mac Pro 2019 for the studio. This will see us through the next 8-10 years with the existing architecture, and by then we should be ready to migrate to whatever direction the market is heading. After trying the latest iPad Pro recently, its going to be a very nice future indeed once the performance and software catches up on ARM for our use cases

Artcutech 10th June 2020 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osk (Post 14791010)

Once again we will be facing two, three years of incompatible, badly adapted software, and another massive culling of applications that won't be ported at all.

I can't hardly wait..

How many plugins, software we will lose?

Are you a developer? What's your take on the news?

Should you buy a intel Mac knowing this now?

Is this the end of hackintosh and boot camp?

Did you invest 40K on the latest Mac Pro Intel based system?

Please discuss

I still find it crazy and impressive that my iMac pro, which I bought in July 2018(was released Dec 2017), costs the same today as it did when it was released, btw its holding up phenomenal. I think we all know what we're getting when investing ridiculous amounts of cash into computers, in a couple of years they'll be closer to dinosaurs than cutting edge most times.

I can't speak on the hackintosh boot camp but I believe that there still will be support for that 10 year(sometimes more, sometimes less) window that apple usually likes to guarantee on all of their products with updates, and I've seen Macs run for many years after that. I heard that apple would be switching to in house chips in the near future a couple years back, if anybody who bought a new Mac Pro or any other apple computer is shocked by this than that's on them. I'm sure everybody will be able to use there iMac, MBP, New Mac Pro for as long as they would have if these new chips weren't released. We've played this game for quite sometime so its nothing new, to complain about this is like complaining that were having tacos on taco Tuesday, don't like it? head on over to the PC deli, or the Linux buffet, but I understand where you're coming from it's just nothing new and I've come to accept it.

The pro audio world usually takes about a year and a half give or take to catch up from my experience, I usually hold off on updating unless I have to(as I'm sure is the case for many of us), on Mojave now. I get it, there is always classic pieces of free software or cracked software that will not be compatible with the update, life sucks haha not really. I've stopped using any plug-ins I cant take with me or that don't belong to me, and if all of my meaningful software hasn't put out an update to support then I will wait to update, simple, is it a good thing? no, is it reality, yes.

I don't think this is in anyway a negative development, but I see how people could see it that way. All will be forgiven if these chips actually produce a higher level of efficiency and power than the intel ones, which I believe is what's being said, but who knows right? never let/believe those in business sell/tell you. I think these chips will actually be a meaningful update, but we'll see.

bgrotto 10th June 2020 03:44 AM

You'd hafta be crazy to run a business around your computer and invest in 1st gen processor tech. Anyone who's recently bought a mac pro will be in great shape for upwards of a decade.

profvonsok 10th June 2020 03:54 AM

How long before Logic Pro X and other Apple apps will require the ARM processor??? I would say not as long as you might think.

Fidelis 10th June 2020 04:18 AM

I use apple since 1998. Every apple computer I had paid for it self easily. But the G5 (pre Intel) did not. It last a year with me and then I had to buy a new Intel Mac Pro and throw the G5 into the garage. I'll be very careful with my apple purchases during this transition.

Raddler 10th June 2020 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profvonsok (Post 14791210)
How long before Logic Pro X and other Apple apps will require the ARM processor??? I would say not as long as you might think.

Not sure about that. What if someone just bought a brand new 2020 intel macbook pro last week to run logic X specifically? You're telling me the buyer couldn't even get 5 years out of the computer?

profvonsok 10th June 2020 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raddler (Post 14791254)
Not sure about that. What if someone just bought a brand new 2020 intel macbook pro last week to run logic X specifically? You're telling me the buyer couldn't even get 5 years out of the computer?

I would bet not.

boingy 10th June 2020 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raddler (Post 14791254)
Not sure about that. What if someone just bought a brand new 2020 intel macbook pro last week to run logic X specifically? You're telling me the buyer couldn't even get 5 years out of the computer?

Apple have never been shy of dropping support for stuff. "Whadya mean your new iPhone won't connect to all those docking stations and chargers you have accumulated? Sheesh, just thrown them away and buy new ones!"

Jim Rosebrook 10th June 2020 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profvonsok (Post 14791372)
I would bet not.

I'd take that bet with great confidence.

profvonsok 10th June 2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook (Post 14791412)
I'd take that bet with great confidence.

I suppose it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Apple would do the right thing by customers but it's recent history makes it highly unlikely.

Jim Rosebrook 10th June 2020 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by profvonsok (Post 14791427)
I suppose it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Apple would do the right thing by customers but it's recent history makes it highly unlikely.

Recent history:

Apple releases Logic Pro 10.5

And it is compatible with a MacBook Pro released in June of 2012.

8 years.

norbury brook 10th June 2020 10:34 AM

I feel for all the software Developers. :( this isn't going to be easy for them and someone's going to have to cover those costs. I mean it's taken 6 months just to get most things stable with Catalina, we're now talking about a new architecture, I imagine some smaller devs won't update, or go under.

We're going back to the old Power PC days of Apple being on a different architecture.


M

knadles 10th June 2020 11:02 AM

Some of us were around for the transition from PPC to Intel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple'...tel_processors

June 6, 2005 - Announcement
January 10, 2006 - First Intel models released
August 7, 2006 - “Transition complete”
October 26, 2007 - Last version of OSX with PPC support
August 28, 2009 - OSX Intel only; PPC applications compatible through Rosetta
July 20, 2011 - Formal end of support for PPC hardware

So if you bought a PPC Mac in May 2005, prior to the announcement, you could no longer run the latest OS starting in August 2009, just over four years later. Your computer still worked of course, but application/driver/developer support started dropping off not long after the Intel Macs came out (it costs $ to maintain and support two systems), and really fell away with the release of Snow Leopard in 2009.

That’s not to say the timeframe will be identical this time, but I wouldn’t count on a good 10 years out of any MAC purchased today. Not if you want to run current software. I just bought a Mac Mini for my studio, but knowing this I’ll probably hold off on replacing my laptop till the ARM models come out. YMMV

Pete

folkfreak 10th June 2020 11:03 AM

I first and foremost feel for me as a windows user, as all devs need to waste their time and energy ONCE AGAIN for this kind of stuff instead of making useful stuff.

I hope a significant number of devs don't do it this time.

ekwipt 10th June 2020 12:27 PM

I think they'll go AMD and they're doing this to throw people off the scent, when Apple introduces the AMD powered iMac and Macbook Pro at WWDC the AMD stock price will go through the roof. AMD has Zen 3 and RDNA 2 Big Navi chips launching September/October, the AMD CPUs are already more powerful than
Intel in Laptops and Apple have been tranitiining to AMD from their grpahics chips and now with their CPU.

Have a look at the AMD Hackintosh, they basically work the exact same way as Intel, are faster, cooler and have more cores. A transition to ARM won't happen, they wont be able to build enough ARM macs with all of the iPhones, iPads and Apple TVs taking their CPUs.

I also think we'll see some sort of AMD based gaming Mac released as well, Steam releases will be available from day 1. It just makes way more sense to me since PS5 and Xbox are coming out by holiday season, Apple want to enter the gaming, console wars, they love anything to do with media and esports, gaming is the only thing they're not involved with yet and the space has so much upside

MagicLantern 10th June 2020 01:40 PM

The iPhone outperforms most Macs in single-core performance. This transition will be more than worth it.

Jim Rosebrook 10th June 2020 03:30 PM

It is hard to accurately predict how much music production workflow might change over the next 5 years for many people.

The symbiotic relationship that Apple will offer between macOS and iPadOS, and potentially very powerful, multi-core ARM processors (some highly specialized cores too) might CRUSH the cobbled together nature of our current creative production systems.

Not just in sheer power... but in offering us immediacy to the "stuff we want in front of us" as we create.

Reverb 10th June 2020 03:38 PM

Fun - all mac users get to purchase new updates for all their plugins!

madriaan 10th June 2020 03:52 PM

Based on their historical record, plan to encounter the following:
1. Massively overpriced hardware
2. Planned obsolescence
3. A new connector format (that makes it inconvenient or impossible to use the old connector format that essentially does the same thing.)
4. Lots of hype over the same, old software in a shiny new wrapper
5. A new version of Notes and iTunes

Forgive me if I missed anything.

Monotremata 10th June 2020 04:08 PM

Go figure I just bought a new Mac mini last Friday.

stoobysnax 10th June 2020 04:11 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong, but, wouldn't they first roll out the lower end MacBook or air's, long before they can roll out or match the performance of 16 core + Zeon's, etc? Which would mean a mulit-year process of swapping over across the full line... which means, support for longer for the older tech.

I just don't see how they could realistically quickly swap over their entire line in any reasonable amount of time. I don't see an ARM Mac Pro ANY time in the near future, do you? And if they can't do that, then they have to support both platforms. So i wouldn't worry about a Mac Pro or current line purchase being obsolete anytime remotely soon.

Artcutech 10th June 2020 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madriaan (Post 14792052)
Based on their historical record, plan to encounter the following:
1. Massively overpriced hardware
2. Planned obsolescence
3. A new connector format that makes it inconvenient or impossible to use the old connector format that essentially does the same thing.
4. Lots of hype over the same, old software in a new shiny wrapper
5. A new version of Notes and iTunes

Forgive me if I missed anything.

So pissed that both TB2 ports on my 2015 MBP no longer work, I was down to one for sometime, really sucks when your setting up for a show and all of a sudden your not getting a connection(it wasn't the cable but the actual port), thank goodness I had one port left and now that one also doesn't work, the USB ports work flawlessly but too bad there's no adapter to go TB2 to usb 3.0.

I'm no longer able to use my Apollo twin duo with my laptop but Kronos connects via USB flawlessly. I feel like the TB2 design was a bad one, so in a way I'm happy that they transitioned to TB3/USB C ports, just not happy that I'm stuck with broken TB2 ports.

If anyone knows a way to fix, or common problems people run into that can be easily fixed regarding TB2 ports on a MBP2015 please let me know, it would be much appreciated. Apple quoted me $450 for a new logic board(that was their solution) but at that price I might as well invest in a new laptop which I have been thinking about, but now with ARM chips coming to Macs going to wait so would rather fix my 2015 for now, thanks for any help, sorry for taking the thread off topic a little.

But all in all I just count the cost, as its the way things are. I love using apple products and feel that the positives out weigh the negatives.

knadles 10th June 2020 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoobysnax (Post 14792091)
I just don't see how they could realistically quickly swap over their entire line in any reasonable amount of time. I don't see an ARM Mac Pro ANY time in the near future, do you? And if they can't do that, then they have to support both platforms. So i wouldn't worry about a Mac Pro or current line purchase being obsolete anytime remotely soon.

Took them 8 months last time. PPC to Intel. Completely different architecture. RISC to CISC. Endian issues.

8 months, from the first Intel computer to the complete line transition.

My point is...nothing we predict here will have anything more than an accidental relationship to what actually happens. If they announce at WDC, there's a good chance engineering work is underway on almost the entire line. The transition has already begun, it just hasn't been announced.

Pete

uptheoctave 10th June 2020 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau_mckee (Post 14791123)
Having known this was around the corner for some time, we bought the Mac Pro 2019 for the studio. This will see us through the next 8-10 years with the existing architecture, and by then we should be ready to migrate to whatever direction the market is heading. After trying the latest iPad Pro recently, its going to be a very nice future indeed once the performance and software catches up on ARM for our use cases

+1.
Very happy with my 2019 Mac Pro and I hope to get 8 years out of it.

Anthony Quinn 10th June 2020 04:41 PM

I think it's more likely they'll go ARM than AMD for how much it is already their primary development platform for the iDevices.

I only wonder if they will do that same clampdown on the software market for these computers, forcing everyone to go through their store and do their same slimy 1/3 skimming off the top.

I'm personally done with supporting that model, and I think it has damaged the ability for software innovation on iOS for the past couple years already.

They need to open their iOS platform to match the desktop paradigm for me to personally want to re-up into their ecosystem any further. If instead they try to align desktop practices toward their mobile practices, then I'm out.

I also think this is the only way they'll be able to bring decently performing basic gaming to their desktops. It's been a ridiculous gap between the high quality of gaming on iOS compared to macOS for a long time.

But on the other hand, all the macOS compatible games on steam aren't going to all of a sudden release ARM versions, so that is probably the only reason I think the AMD angle has a slim possibility of happening instead.

It is interesting overall to think some type of change is coming.

Here's hoping they don't utter the idiotic codeword "courage" again though.

stoobysnax 10th June 2020 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knadles (Post 14792144)
Took them 8 months last time. PPC to Intel. Completely different architecture. RISC to CISC. Endian issues.

8 months, from the first Intel computer to the complete line transition.

My point is...nothing we predict here will have anything more than an accidental relationship to what actually happens. If they announce at WDC, there's a good chance engineering work is underway on almost the entire line. The transition has already begun, it just hasn't been announced.

Pete

Yes, that’s true. Big difference though is, at that time, Intel was the king / leader on most computers worldwide and Apple was jumping to a known platform that was better in almost every way. This time, it’s in house, iPhone / iPad chips, developed from scratch. It’s brand new tech. Hard to really compare and hard to believe Apple can and will roll out arm chips across the entire platform in 8 months let alone a year or two.