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Primativ 6th June 2020 05:00 PM

I need to upgrade my monitors (techno)
 
I've been using JBL LSR305 which for the price were pretty good but it's time to upgrade.


Music style is techno.

I don't want to go above the price of the Focal Solo 6 Be really so we can forget Barefoots etc but there may be some flexibility.

I originally was planning to get the Genelec 8040b but a well respected artist I spoke to recently said he did not like them at all and whenever he has been in studios with them he has had issues.

I know monitors are an individual choice but this threw me off quite a bit as I respect his opinion greatly.

Focals have great reviews and seem very popular, I think within my budget they are the best available.

Due to the pandemic I can't demo speakers in a showroom. I will have to buy and test them out in my room and if I don't gel, return them.

For some qualification, I had the Dynaudio BM5 for a few years before the JBL's and did not like them, I found some quite harsh, very fatiguing to work on and really not pleasing at all.

Taking a shot in the dark I think the Focals are the safest bet? I may consider the Focal twin duos if they are a significant step up from the Solo.

Simonator 6th June 2020 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primativ (Post 14784954)
Focal Solo 6 Be

You are suggesting moving from 5" to 6.5" woofers... And while there would definitely be a clear step up in terms of both quality and frequency range, you are still going to be missing all the subs.... IMO the subs are critical for techno.

I bought the following (which I'm extremely happy about and would whole-heartedly recommend):
* 2x Focal Alpha 65
* 1x Presonus Temblor T10 subwoofer
* 1x Subpac S1/S2
[you can probably buy all that for the same price as only a single Solo 6 Be]

These work really harmoniously together. The sub has a foot-switch to easily disable it (ie at night so as not to disturb neighbours). For me, this is a better option than having 8" monitors and needing to mess around EQing the signal in the evenings. Also, the T10 goes WAY lower than any 8" woofers would.

The detail on the Focal Alphas is absolutely stunning. I haven't heard the Solo 6 Be, but I feel that the law of diminishing returns will kick in pretty hard as there is no way they can possibly sound 4x better than the Alphas.

Whichever way you go though, I can't see it makes sense to spend so much cash and then still be missing the most crucial frequency range for techno - and that's surely going to be the case with any 6.5" cones at any price.

Sebastian N 6th June 2020 09:54 PM

what's your budget? can you stretch to something that's three way? i've recently heard a pair of 305s running through a trinnov system and they were really good. but it's kinda pointless to run that (obviously that studio had waaay more expensive monitors than those that made the trinnov worth the investment). for bass extension, you need something big. or dedicated like a sub. i like stuff like adams/eve/hedd. eve have a pretty cool system with the sub with a lot of controls for cutoff frequencies. you could stretch to 2 subs and 2 smaller satelites from eve and build yourself a nice full range 3 way system. 2 x TS107 + 2 x SC204 is 1,5k, will go down to 30hz(ish) and will give you great clarity from the ribbons and great midrange as the cones are not pumping lows so they can focus

signalpudding 6th June 2020 10:40 PM

You said not to suggest Barefoot but there is the new Footprint02. I haven't heard them since they aren't widely available yet but the Footprint01 is the larger version in the range and they're awesome. I compared them with the Focal Twin6 Be at the time. I'm lucky to live near Vintage King so it's easy to audition stuff and am hoping the Footprint02 is in stock soon so I can try them out for myself.

Primativ 7th June 2020 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simonator (Post 14785325)
You are suggesting moving from 5" to 6.5" woofers... And while there would definitely be a clear step up in terms of both quality and frequency range, you are still going to be missing all the subs.... IMO the subs are critical for techno.

I bought the following (which I'm extremely happy about and would whole-heartedly recommend):
* 2x Focal Alpha 65
* 1x Presonus Temblor T10 subwoofer
* 1x Subpac S1/S2
[you can probably buy all that for the same price as only a single Solo 6 Be]

These work really harmoniously together. The sub has a foot-switch to easily disable it (ie at night so as not to disturb neighbours). For me, this is a better option than having 8" monitors and needing to mess around EQing the signal in the evenings. Also, the T10 goes WAY lower than any 8" woofers would.

The detail on the Focal Alphas is absolutely stunning. I haven't heard the Solo 6 Be, but I feel that the law of diminishing returns will kick in pretty hard as there is no way they can possibly sound 4x better than the Alphas.

Whichever way you go though, I can't see it makes sense to spend so much cash and then still be missing the most crucial frequency range for techno - and that's surely going to be the case with any 6.5" cones at any price.

Thanks for the information.

I should have said, I already have a Rokit 10s2 sub. I'm not using it at the moment firstly because my neighbours are the otherside of one of the walls, and as it causes more issues than it solves in my untreated room. I don't want loads of low frequencies bouncing around. I am actually in the process of treating my room so that will help the second issue but not so much my first. What my plan is, is to keep the JBL's as a second reference pair (I will probably swap these out for something else like mixcubes eventually).

I will reincorporate the sub as part of the JBL second reference pair, and use the Focals as my main monitors. I like having the sub there as reference to check low end, but not to have it on all the time.

It's good you speak highly of those focals, they are certainly much more affordable than the Solo's so will put them under consideration also.

Primativ 7th June 2020 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signalpudding (Post 14785523)
You said not to suggest Barefoot but there is the new Footprint02. I haven't heard them since they aren't widely available yet but the Footprint01 is the larger version in the range and they're awesome. I compared them with the Focal Twin6 Be at the time. I'm lucky to live near Vintage King so it's easy to audition stuff and am hoping the Footprint02 is in stock soon so I can try them out for myself.

Cheers they definitely look interesting, expensive but interesting and not as much as I expected Barefoots to be, even if it is their entry level model ;) I will add them to my list.

What did you think of the Twin6 Be?

signalpudding 7th June 2020 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primativ (Post 14785735)
Cheers they definitely look interesting, expensive but interesting and not as much as I expected Barefoots to be, even if it is their entry level model ;) I will add them to my list.

What did you think of the Twin6 Be?

The Twin6 sounded great, though at the time I liked the low stuff on the Footprint01 better. Not that it seemed like more, just more what I wanted to hear? I don't know, I hate all the adjectives people use to describe sound. I ended up not getting either cause I'm planning a new studio space and wanted to be able to try them there within the return period.

I don't know what your space is like but I think the Barefoots have a hard time in poorly treated rooms? I can see the Footprint01 causing a lot of low frequency problems with double side mounted 8" woofers on each speaker. The 02 has 6.5" ones. I don't actually know though, they have some other stuff going on that sounds like it makes that a non issue? I think the woofers are out of phase or something which reduces vibrations? And they're not ported. If someone here actually knows I'd love some more info myself.

I ended up getting a pair of Equator D8s to hold me over. I've had the D5s since they came out and liked them for mid stuff and playing quiet. I've always used them with old Yamaha hifi speakers though to give me a real sense of low end. The D8s aren't wired up yet, and I'm sure they're not in the same league as the Focals and Barefoots, but I'm in the same spot as you and just really needed something with bigger than 5" drivers.

busterfriendly 7th June 2020 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primativ (Post 14785726)
I am actually in the process of treating my room so that will help the second issue but not so much my first.

You might find that good room treatment fixes all your problems. Your may view your exisiting monitors differently after that.

Sebastian N 7th June 2020 08:36 AM

a sub doesn't need to be cranked up or give you a club feeling. it's meant to play the frequencies your main speakers can't push out. if your speakers only play down to 55hz, it just needs to cover let's say 30-80hz (crossing over the main speakers at 80). it doesn't need to do this particularly loud or earth shaking. just like your monitors don't have to be particularly loud. but getting the sub volume right is not as easy and you need a bunch of measurements to set it right

fiddlestickz 7th June 2020 12:27 PM

Playing devils advocate...

..just because one person said they don't like Genelecs doesn't mean thousands of others don't use and love them. Think about what you want, what you need, what works for you not someone else. Genelecs are the best monitors I've ever worked with and I work in TV and we have all sorts of monitoring where I am from Rokits, NS10's, Mackie, Fostex, JBL's etc etc..the Genelecs I use in the rooms I like working in at work are superb. This is why i invested in them at home, upgraded from JBL 305's and never looked back.

johannburkard 7th June 2020 01:42 PM

Genelec 8340 + 2*7350 subs?

Keep in mind most rooms that I see have modal nulls pretty high up so if you get a sub, get it to fill the holes up from 40-100 Hz, rather than for downward expansion. I.o.w. two smaller subs (for stereo) instead of one bigger sub.

Reptil 7th June 2020 01:54 PM

Those JBLs are surprisingly good but not a lot of low end (physics, obviously). Keep those for reference.
Check out the Kali IN-8. Big punch for budget price. If you can stretch the budget a bit, include the WS-12 sub.
Video coming up this week (waiting for second round of test measurement)

HSi 7th July 2020 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptil (Post 14786484)
Those JBLs are surprisingly good but not a lot of low end (physics, obviously). Keep those for reference.
Check out the Kali IN-8. Big punch for budget price. If you can stretch the budget a bit, include the WS-12 sub.
Video coming up this week (waiting for second round of test measurement)

Are those Kalis really that good?

You can pick up smaller focal shapes for around £300 each if you buy b-stock.

Kali LP6, that's pretty flat.

https://i.imgur.com/lGpXMVy.png



Might have to just try them for those prices.

Reptil 7th July 2020 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSi (Post 14843968)
Are those Kalis really that good?

You can pick up smaller focal shapes for around £300 each if you buy b-stock.

The Kalis are good, and (like any speaker) have some quirks.
They are 3 way powered speakers and do pack a punch.
This weekend I managed to get a second set of measurements (by a professional studio acoustics company in a measuring room), we tested off axis responses, and now that part is finished.
I'm looking to finish the video about the IN-8 and WS-12 (in fullrange setup!) this week. (It's taken much longer than I expected, but everthing was at snail mode the past weeks, eh... months. cellfone
Which speakers you decide for, is of course up to you. :)

HSi 7th July 2020 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptil (Post 14844188)
The Kalis are good, and (like any speaker) have some quirks.
They are 3 way powered speakers and do pack a punch.
This weekend I managed to get a second set of measurements (by a professional studio acoustics company in a measuring room), we tested off axis responses, and now that part is finished.
I'm looking to finish the video about the IN-8 and WS-12 (in fullrange setup!) this week. (It's taken much longer than I expected, but everthing was at snail mode the past weeks, eh... months. cellfone
Which speakers you decide for, is of course up to you. :)

Ah I see, those are a different series. Myself I'm mostly looking at either Adam ax's or Neuman KH120's and keep my MSP5's as well. But for £300...a pair

Jean Luc Cougar 13th July 2020 04:20 AM

I haven’t tried any of the speakers in this conversation but just wanted to weigh in on the following:

1. Definitely treat your room. It will help Ny of your monitors sound clearer
2. Consider a room correction software like SonarWorks
3. Genelecs are good monitors, they definitely have a specific sound - but they are high quality. I don’t have them but have used a ton at work (radio) and would have no problem mixing on them. Any chance you can find the Genelecs used and resell them if you don’t like them ?

(For context: I have owned KRK RP6 with Sub, Dynaudio BM6Amk1, currently using Neumann KH310)

(At work I have used nearly every Genelec in production including the full range soffit mounting big boys)

Sebastian N 20th July 2020 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptil (Post 14844188)
I'm looking to finish the video about the IN-8 and WS-12 (in fullrange setup!) this week.

any update regarding this? i'm very curious about them. wish that sub of theirs was better looking. not that it matters when on the floor somewhere but it does look like some cheapo pa sub

HSi 23rd July 2020 11:36 PM



This is quite interesting. You can clearly hear the Kali LP6 is closer to source, but the HS7 has far sharper transients, he does show a null on the HS7's at about 110hz though. The dynamic response seemed far better on the HS7's much more pronounced.

When he shows the room responses the Kalis is much better, with no significant dips.

To me it suggests you're going to have a harder time of fixing issues on the Kalis, but it should translate well in relation to what you do hear, roughly meaning you won't have to learn them. And the other way around on the Yamahas if you're unused to that sound.

Also means really tight processing may be harder on the Kalis.

Makes me miss my MSP5's, reminds me of how defined everything is on them, hi hats sound like atom thin shards of metal tearing through space, don't want them posted though. I was thinking of ordering a pair tomorrow, not too sure now if I'm honest. I really want to try the Monkey Banana Turbo 6's not sure the neighbours will be impressed :)

HSi 24th July 2020 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian N (Post 14868594)
any update regarding this? i'm very curious about them. wish that sub of theirs was better looking. not that it matters when on the floor somewhere but it does look like some cheapo pa sub



I don't think this is Reptil, but it's that line.

akajuan 6th August 2020 10:53 PM

If your room is untreated upgrading to 6.5" woofers may not be a good move.

I have the JBL's and when I go to my mate's studio who has the Genelecs I get GAS, but not enough to fork out the difference. I think knowing your monitors would be much more beneficial than spending money on a new pair, esp with an untreated room. It's like buying a Ferrari to drive on a dirt road. A Ford Fiesta will get you there in the same time, even quicker if you know the road and the car well.

I'm guessing your monitors are placed close to a wall. The JBLs are rear ported which means they are probably not discharging quick enough to take advantage of the port design (essential for low freqs) and also creating a frequency build up behind them.

If this is the case and you cannot change the position upgrading to front ported monitors may improve your situation, but generally, if a flat frequency response is what you are after, you should avoid ported monitors. Some time ago I read a book by Mike Senior titled "The Mixing Secrets of the Small Studio" where he makes a very compelling case for unported monitors. Plenty of graphics and scientific evidence included. Very recommended read. You can also check the resources page on this site that includes a list of recommended (unported) monitors for different budget ranges:

https://cambridge-mt.com/ms/ch1/

HSi 6th August 2020 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akajuan (Post 14901025)
If this is the case and you cannot change the position upgrading to front ported monitors may improve your situation, but generally, if a flat frequency response is what you are after, you should avoid ported monitors. Some time ago I read a book by Mike Senior titled "The Mixing Secrets of the Small Studio" where he makes a very compelling case for unported monitors. Plenty of graphics and scientific evidence included. Very recommended read. You can also check the resources page on this site that includes a list of recommended (unported) monitors for different budget ranges:

https://cambridge-mt.com/ms/ch1/

Unported have better bass response, keeps the cone tighter in its movements, it's a smoother motion more accurate movement. Focal Shapes are unported though have a kind of Diaphragm type thing on the side. Not sure of any others in that price range.