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-   -   CV modulation ideas for project (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/modular-mania-all-things-eurorack-and-modular-synths-effects/1313257-cv-modulation-ideas-project.html)

SkyWriter 2nd June 2020 05:11 PM

CV modulation ideas for project
 
I'm currently working on a set of user coded oscillators for Prologue. The oscillators were ported from Mutable Instruments Plaits codebase. The project implements a permutable modulation matrix with sources and modulation modifiers with a variety of pre-configured 'matrices'.

So, I'm looking for examples of simple CV* style modifiers to modulate existing CV modifiers or sources. The osc models have 4 inputs to concurrently modulate, and only a few controls to elaborate on only 1 or 2 variables per modulation type. So I can have 2 dynamic modulations sources, and up to 3 modifiers to distribute over 3-4 outputs.

My modulation sources are typical:
AD/AR envelopes
Ramp
LFO - tri, sqr, saw, S+H (random input)

This is the short list I have to implement a set of modulation modifiers:
Track - Intensity
Lag - Rate
Fold - level
Clip - level
S+H - Rate
Noise - Intensity
Jitter - Intensity
Interpolator - Smoothing

Each modifier has only one control. So, track get an intensity, but Lag gets a rate, and so on. I have twelve primary slots, but I can fit secondaries in lots of places too. So 24 would get me where I want to be. I'm ridiculously tight on control inputs so I can't directly use ideas with more controls now.

Other related ideas would be cool - but this is what I'm focused on ATM.

Thanks!


*-clearly I'm not doing CV, but modular modulation is the most fertile ground for new ideas. I've used what I found on my Matrix 6, and a couple of guesses at something useful.

pekbro 3rd June 2020 11:40 PM

This would be hard to comment on without having a look at the api. It's not super clear what you would need here.
If you're looking for inspiration on the algorithmic front, maybe have a look at Artwonk, it's free now and there's a ton
of stuff in there to have a look at, fractal's etc, all in the context of generative music.

http://algoart.com

SkyWriter 4th June 2020 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekbro (Post 14779900)
This would be hard to comment on without having a look at the api. It's not super clear what you would need here.
If you're looking for inspiration on the algorithmic front, maybe have a look at Artwonk, it's free now and there's a ton
of stuff in there to have a look at, fractal's etc, all in the context of generative music.

http://algoart.com

Hi @ pekbro , any answer is a good answer. :-)

So forget all the context. Look at how you construct modulation chains on modular synths. For instance, if I simply wanted a delayed vibrato effect I would do something like:

Ramp(ascending slope)->LFO(amplitude)->OSC(pitch)

This takes two modulators, with a two controls:
Ramp: Rate, Intensity
LFO: Rate, Intensity

Now if I wanted to have the same effect the cutoff freq of a LPF, I might do this:

Ramp(ascending slope)->LFO(amplitude)->(A)->OSC(Pitch)
(A)->Track(Intensity)->LPF(cutoff)

Where I have the same modulation chain, branching on (A) to a tracking modulator (see Matrix 12), which routes it to another input on a LPF including an intensity control to adjust the effect. Or maybe I want to use a Lag filter to smear the cutoff a little in time.

So, I checked a few synths I knew with programable Modulation matrix, and came up with a few. It was a short list. There must be more.

In modular, you deal with CV's with a variety of devices, Maths, attenuators, mults, S+H, in the same way you might use a waveshaper or folder on an audio signal, to put some variety, and dynamics to an otherwise static sound parameter.

I realize, at this point most of these common ones has been subsumed by do-everything-modules. You want delay vibrato, turn the delay vibrato on! But, at one time (early moog), all this stuff was done with VCA's, EG's, atten's, mults, etc...
---------------
If I explained myself well this time, we can go back to context. I'm writing modulation software for a pre-existing sound generator (Plaits). The modulation software and sound generator software is compiled together into a single executable load module into the synth (Prologue 16). The synth will only* make available 6 numbers ranging from -100 to +100 (inside a menu), and two rotary encoders to control the software. To implement a robust modulation system, capable of being controlled at a reasonable granularity given the paucity of control structures, I "need" to do one of two things:
- pre-define a set of pre-set modulation 'connections', and modulation patterns, and select between them one at a time mapping the available controls to different portions of the modulation matrix. Or
- define a set of source and operators that 'tesselate' into a variety of useful combinations of sources and modulators based on a multilayer modulation matrix. Then permute inputs and outputs through to focus on different aspect of the oscillator model.
For each source or modulator, create a useful description of that only operation in one or two control values.

Stamp and repeat, 100's of times.

So! To the point. I came up with a list of simple modulators (see attachment), that seem pretty good. Thought someone would go "Dude you friggin forgot 'schmoooch'!" Or something I didn't even think of.

So... good talk! :-)

*-there are other methods. However, they violate the rules required to preserve in a 'preset' of the state of the oscillator.

pekbro 4th June 2020 06:01 AM

Heh, your going to make us use our brains, that's not very nice :D

Gonna have to think on this a bit, off hand I cant think of much, maybe
the basic ringmod?, bipole carrier x bipole modulator -> ringmod (dest)

It would help if I actually had one of the Prologues...

SkyWriter 4th June 2020 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekbro (Post 14780331)
Heh, your going to make us use our brains, that's not very nice :D

Gonna have to think on this a bit, off hand I cant think of much, maybe
the basic ringmod?, bipole carrier x bipole modulator -> ringmod (dest)

It would help if I actually had one of the Prologues...

Lol! Yeah... too much to ask :-)

Ring-mod is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought to go that way. Fwiw, modulation rates are an issue above 1Khz with this method inside the oscillator. I would have to advance development 6 months to attack that now.

I think I came up with enough to fulfill this dev stage now. Was fun looking back on Matrix 12. Great instrument.

ToyBox 4th June 2020 03:08 PM

Not sure how much sense these would make here but I would like to:
  • - Delay (Time), so that I can change the onset of a modulation
  • - Offset (Amount), to make a bipolar source unipolar or generate DC signals for examples.
  • - Invert (On/Off), but that might be already possible.
Also, I'm sure your mod sources have limits as far as how long/slow/fast they can be, so having a modifier that lets you extend that would be useful, but I've no idea how you would do that. I don't have much modular experience.

SkyWriter 4th June 2020 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyBox (Post 14780899)
Not sure how much sense these would make here but I would like to:
  • - Delay (Time), so that I can change the onset of a modulation
  • - Offset (Amount), to make a bipolar source unipolar or generate DC signals for examples.
  • - Invert (On/Off), but that might be already possible.
Also, I'm sure your mod sources have limits as far as how long/slow/fast they can be, so having a modifier that lets you extend that would be useful, but I've no idea how you would do that. I don't have much modular experience.

Hi @ ToyBox , yeah now you get it :-)
-Delay is a great one I was able to fit in the last rev.
-Offset I have with a Bias control - this is included for model inputs without modulation sources.
-Invert is part of each Intensity control - it's so useful :-) Track does the basic 1:n and 1:-n operation.
Long/slow/fast - would be a modulation input to a source or modifier that used a time constant. So, and AD EG with have a rate modulation input, or S+H sample rate. Great idea, got it! :-)

The real limitation here is always the number of controls. Of the eight inputs,
Three are dedicated to input Bias (two rotary, and one menu input)
One is dedicated to indexing through combinations of sources and modifiers, and top level interconnect between them - this specifies env, ramp, lfo sources.
That leaves four 'sliders' of +100 to -100, to do all the rest :-) so it can't get out of hand.

Easy! :lol:

cane creek 6th June 2020 03:16 PM

I’ve been watching Sinfonion videos and thinking how it might be paired with my Vermona performer

SkyWriter 7th June 2020 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cane creek (Post 14784763)
I’ve been watching Sinfonion videos and thinking how it might be paired with my Vermona performer

Those two look like they were made for each other :-)

cane creek 7th June 2020 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyWriter (Post 14786513)
Those two look like they were made for each other :-)

i wondered where my Sinfonion comment went, this was supposed to be in the general chit chat thread :lol:

pekbro 7th June 2020 07:18 PM

I think the Sinfonion is the most useful module I have bought so far. kfhkh