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-   -   Limiting on every channel? (House, Piano House, deep house etc..) (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/dancefloor-music-production/1310028-limiting-every-channel-house-piano-house-deep-house-etc.html)

Deanosaurus 10th May 2020 04:02 PM

Limiting on every channel? (House, Piano House, deep house etc..)
 
Hi guys, im no pro at mixing, but i've got a question for anybody on here who produces electronic music (House, Piano House, deep house etc..)

When mixing i've always been advised not to use a limiter on seperate channels, however sometimes ill use them to catch peaks etc and thats about it.

However ive heard lots of people use limiters on separate channels to achieve loudness, as these genres of music unfortunately are usually all about loudness.

I always thought that loudness could be achieved with mastering as long as you have a good mix with good use of eq, saturation, compression etc.

A few tracks that im referring to are tracks like these, and if its just the mastering that makes them loud, use of compression or limiting:

https://soundcloud.com/spinninrecord...-crazy-out-now

https://soundcloud.com/joelcorry/lonely

https://soundcloud.com/fourofdiamonds/let-me-love-you

Then you have mine which in comparison is fairly quiet compared:

https://soundcloud.com/dean-lee-offi...e-to-copyright

Any help or advise would be massively appreciated :)

Plyphon 13th May 2020 04:40 PM

Honestly leave that for the mastering engineer!

NawSon 14th May 2020 06:29 AM

Chop off the very top of your own head, then you will be louder

radio_death_wish 15th May 2020 07:47 AM

Hey man,

Just listened to your remix, and the other tracks. There is a distinct lack of dynamics in both your own and the other, so it gets me thinking:

"If everything is loud, is anything loud at all?"

Humans don't have an RMS meter in our heads, we experience 'perceived loudness' and one sure fire way to have elements appear loud is to arrange them alongside/within elements/musical passages that are not so 'loud'.

I reckon the way is to make friends with dynamics rather than squash every peak in sight.

Particularly when working ITB I find the way to massive mixes is to keep your channel levels low and turn your monitors up - with no noise floor you aren't losing anything when it all gets turned up at a later stage but I find it allows you the headroom to really play with dynamics.

That said, I recognise that within the genre you are working, scalping the waveform is standard practice and competitive loudness exists.

To my ears the tracks you envy have been hard limited and maximised a little more aggressively, most likely at the mastering stage.

To limit every channel would choke your mix and actually have a detrimental effect on 'perceived loudness' - turn your channels down, have the 'loudest' elements of your mix (kick?) bouncing around -18dbfs, turn your monitors up if you need volume, and get back all those precious dbs after mixdown.

Deanosaurus 17th May 2020 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radio_death_wish (Post 14735861)
Hey man,

Just listened to your remix, and the other tracks. There is a distinct lack of dynamics in both your own and the other, so it gets me thinking:

"If everything is loud, is anything loud at all?"

Humans don't have an RMS meter in our heads, we experience 'perceived loudness' and one sure fire way to have elements appear loud is to arrange them alongside/within elements/musical passages that are not so 'loud'.

I reckon the way is to make friends with dynamics rather than squash every peak in sight.

Particularly when working ITB I find the way to massive mixes is to keep your channel levels low and turn your monitors up - with no noise floor you aren't losing anything when it all gets turned up at a later stage but I find it allows you the headroom to really play with dynamics.

That said, I recognise that within the genre you are working, scalping the waveform is standard practice and competitive loudness exists.

To my ears the tracks you envy have been hard limited and maximised a little more aggressively, most likely at the mastering stage.

To limit every channel would choke your mix and actually have a detrimental effect on 'perceived loudness' - turn your channels down, have the 'loudest' elements of your mix (kick?) bouncing around -18dbfs, turn your monitors up if you need volume, and get back all those precious dbs after mixdown.

Very true, i actually sent mine off for mastering as i don't master my own tracks and won't even attempt it.

I've recently started using Mvmeter and concentrating on gain staging more, I think ill leave louodness to the mastering engineer, and also ask them not to squash it as much as listening back now after months of not listening to the track at all it is squashed!

radio_death_wish 18th May 2020 07:36 AM

Loudness is like crack, very moreish but very fatiguing.

Though its not my style, the track you posted was well produced and had creative arrangements and edits - not only would it be silly to overly squash it, it would be a shame!

As a DJ, I have control of my channel trims and master gain. If I notice a great track is half a 1 or 2db off the last I played (IF I notice) its not going to put me off playing it. Broadcasts and club systems are usually limited in such a manner some level of normalisation happens.
Spotify ect all aggressively normalise to -15LUFS.

My point is, people are drawn to great arrangements and creative approaches - not to what the RMS meter is reading.

Communicate openly with your mastering engineer, send reference tracks and be frank about your desire for 'loudness' - just accept it comes at a price.

Mantik 5th June 2020 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanosaurus (Post 14723770)
However ive heard lots of people use limiters on separate channels to achieve loudness, as these genres of music unfortunately are usually
all about loudness

Please relax a little bit and think just a minute about that.

Music is always all about the music.
If music not mainly about music.. yeah you see?

It is not about function, technics, domination or anything else. Think about tracks you enjoy even still in 20 years. Loudness is the least to worry about.

I mainly produce techno. DARK punching. Asskicking. Non melodic Stuff. It sounds hard hitting. But in reality its just an illusion. It can sound hard because the mix has enough breath. Many if not most elements are mixed very very softly. Especialy the kickdrum. Yes.

Go to youtube and listen to Stimmings advice about the 0 db masterchannel, this is all you need. For the rest just focus on the music and throw those limiters away.

Especialy compression (including limiters) is a very reliable way to trash your productions. Do yourself a favour and just forget about them. Compression in electronic music is highly overrated and very missleadingly promoted. Only use them when you are absolutely sure why use them. If in doubt just dont touch it, and you will be very very fine.

Have been there myself, learned it the hard way.

HSi 10th July 2020 02:20 AM

No. Is the short answer, you're just running the dynamics of every channel.

acided 12th July 2020 09:24 AM

Izotope are doing a great series of videos and cover limiting and also others on loudness etc, all on YouTube

https://youtu.be/Ze-ZrAzu8uA

Chriscowie 17th July 2020 09:21 PM

Importantly I'm talking about 4/4 dance floor stuff here.

You can limit individual channels and tons of producers do.. For example a kick drum is often better served with heavy limiting than a compressor. It's not just about loudness - limiting sounds great on lots of sources, it can be quite vibey when slamming them hard. But its not an all or nothing, you generally just limit stuff you feel benefits the track. Where I do find they work great is on Bass and Kick drums. I just use any DAWs built in ones. I don't need a mastering limiter for individual tracks/channels

One benefit of this can mean you don't need to limit so heavily during the mastering stage.

Chriscowie 18th July 2020 12:58 PM

Warren is talking about parallel compression using multiple comps on each channel to achieve loudness on individual tracks. But limiting can achieve the same thing without the pumping effect. Compression unless designed transparent gives colour/vibe, limiting not so much unless heavily slammed. The point is you can limit individual tracks especially in 4/4 dance music.