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-   -   Moog Subharmonicon Leaked? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1308982-moog-subharmonicon-leaked.html)

bucketsofcake 3rd May 2020 03:31 PM

Moog Subharmonicon
 
This was originally posted last night by Torture_Smoothie in r/synthesizers, but I haven't seen anything here on GS yet.

It looks like Sweetwater included a picture of what looks to be a product line Subharmonicon. As someone who didn't get to build one at Moogfest, I'm really intrigued. Don't know about a release date or price yet.



https://i.imgur.com/bURZiiA.jpg

Afturmath 3rd May 2020 03:35 PM

I'm just gonna leave this here.

https://i.imgur.com/6DwBrBK.png

asynchro_nous 3rd May 2020 03:39 PM

Holding out for the Ubharmonicon.abduction

TheSwede 3rd May 2020 04:46 PM

Exciting!

I think they see that the “weirder” they get, the more beloved the device. The DFAM is impenetrable to many, but seems like everyone’s favorite.

Here’s to hoping it’s out soon!

Rob Ocelot 3rd May 2020 05:02 PM

Weirdly, I wrote this a year ago, almost to the day: What Happened to the Moog Subharmonicon?

So I wonder what changed?

Moog's official explanation was that the Subharmonicon had tuning and stability issues, unintuitive UI and was more of an idea spitball rather than a fully fleshed out product. I always thought that was a bit of a piss take -- when has wonky tuning, confusing controls and questionable utility EVER been a barrier for modular synthesists, especially West Coast heads? hooppie

The UI redesign looks more intuitive, especially for the sequencer section and for displaying which subharmonics are currently active/triggering. They've added waveform selection and proper controls for Attack (VCF and VCA).

Most importantly: if you look closely, under the glare of the flash is an all important "Quantize" button.

On a side note, are the Mother-32 and DFAM still current products for Moog?

PuggaMahone 3rd May 2020 05:03 PM

If it's priced closer to a Mother/DFAM than a vocoder, I'll get one

apessino 3rd May 2020 05:08 PM

Wow - looks awesome. Much better panel design than the workshop version.

Instabuy! kfhkh

Rob Ocelot 3rd May 2020 05:46 PM

One issue I think with the MoogFest version was that the deeper into the subharmonics you go the more the pitch is affected -- so slight tuning differences with the fundamental note frequency would be magnified in the subs. Compound that with a second oscillator and the pitch adjustments introduced by the sequencer and you can see why a quantizer was absolutely needed. The original design could have benefitted from oscillator sync between OSC 1 and 2 as well, like the DFAM does.

Even Loopop in his Subharmonicon video mentions that a pitch quantizer would help immensely -- he also mentions that it took a while to get a feel for how the harmonics interact with each other and the sequencer. All of the videos I've seen demonstrating the Subharmonicon tend to stick to the first 5 or 6 subharmonics which have a more pleasing sound. It's like the other 9-10 subharmonics are ignored.

pppch 3rd May 2020 06:21 PM

lol

https://reverb.com/au/item/14842235-...rtly-assembled

and here a hires pic.. seems to be real

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizer..._be_a_reality/

iksrazal 3rd May 2020 06:32 PM

The reason I like analog sequencers like the AS Oberkorn is that it doesn't do quantization - otherwise its digital. I'd like likely leave it off since I see a button for it.

I'll probably get one if the demos of the new unit sound good. I like the idea and rhythm accompaniment / drums is always the biggest hurdle for my new tracks as I do those last.

Bollinja 3rd May 2020 07:48 PM

So hope this is true! Assuming it is, is the Polyrythm section new, or a reworking of some of the switches on the original?

apessino 3rd May 2020 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iksrazal (Post 14707261)
The reason I like analog sequencers like the AS Oberkorn is that it doesn't do quantization - otherwise its digital. I'd like likely leave it off since I see a button for it.

We are talking about pitch quantization here, which would be a huge benefit to the Subharmonicon, not time quantization.

marcgood 3rd May 2020 08:38 PM

YES. I really wanted the one from a couple years back. But this looks far better with far more thought put into it. Looks like I can rekindle my dream of a M32, DFAM, Subharmonicon stack on my desk! kfhkh

More info here.

Rob Ocelot 3rd May 2020 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bollinja (Post 14707432)
So hope this is true! Assuming it is, is the Polyrythm section new, or a reworking of some of the switches on the original?

Looks like a subtle rework. You can see soft switches to select which sequence each of the 4 polyrhythms controls (renamed from Sub 1-4, to make it less confusing with the subharmonic pitches). The old design had switches to the right of the two sequences that let you select rhythms 1+2, 3+4, or all -- so that's more flexible and is combined with the functionality of the on/off toggle switches that were below the original polyrhythms. What seems to be missing are the logic operators (XOR/OR) and the local on/off that were to the right of the original polyrhythms. Hopefully these are incorporated somehow.

What's also interesting are the sequencer assign buttons, where you can assign which subharmonics are going to each sequencer and the curious buttons in between that I read as "12-ET" "B-ET" "12-J1" "B-J1". "ET" might be external trigger (so either sequence 1 or 2, or both sequencers responding to external trig). "J1"? No clue, but perhaps it's a way to jump a prescribed number of sequencer steps.

edit: I hope we don't lose the logic operators for the polyrhythms -- one of the cool things about the original design was you could select an exclusive OR where if two or more of the polyrhythms coincided with a beat then it would skip that beat entirely.

Rob Ocelot 3rd May 2020 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apessino (Post 14707443)
We are talking about pitch quantization here, which would be a huge benefit to the Subharmonicon, not time quantization.

It could technically be both. One thing the Subharmonicon videos have made clear is that the frequency relationships between the fundamental pitch and the subharmonics are fundamentally the same as the clock subdivisions used to generate polyrhythms. You just hear the results differently -- higher frequencies produce tones, very low frequencies produce clicks which we percieve as rhythms.

Quantizing both the pitches and the clocks to the same related frequencies... that just might make my head explode. cooge

apessino 3rd May 2020 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcgood (Post 14707497)
YES. I really wanted the one from a couple years back. But this looks far better with far more thought put into it. Looks like I can rekindle my dream of a M32, DFAM, Subharmonicon stack on my desk! kfhkh

More info here.

Me too - going to have to upgrade to the three tier stand. :)

Synth Buddha 3rd May 2020 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asynchro_nous (Post 14706889)
Holding out for the Ubharmonicon.abduction

https://i.imgur.com/U6xWtZJ.jpg

jason moyer 3rd May 2020 09:34 PM

About time.

BTByrd 3rd May 2020 09:41 PM

Flagship monosynth or GTFO.

iksrazal 3rd May 2020 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apessino (Post 14707443)
We are talking about pitch quantization here, which would be a huge benefit to the Subharmonicon, not time quantization.

I'm talking about output control voltage, not bpm. On analog sequencers, the CV outputs can be swept smoothly from 0 to max. If its quantized its not quite as smooth, but rather its stepped.

There's an on/off quantize button - makes everyone happy.

Sebastian N 3rd May 2020 10:47 PM

not sure about the new rubber buttons. they don't really fit imo, especially with the red led in them. too late now. and regarding price, i'm sure it will be be within 50 bucks of dfam/m32

chaosium 3rd May 2020 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTByrd (Post 14707630)
Flagship monosynth or GTFO.

Can’t win for tryin

PuggaMahone 3rd May 2020 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iksrazal (Post 14707758)
There's an on/off quantize button - makes everyone happy.

Hahahaha if only! Right before I read that, I was thinking I wish the quantize button was a knob that could go from "unquantized" all the way to "fully quantized". I don't know if it would have any sweetspots, but it would be another novelty generator. Then I read your post!:lol:

asynchro_nous 4th May 2020 12:55 AM

Polyrhythmic or polymetric?

jason moyer 4th May 2020 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asynchro_nous (Post 14707998)
Polyrhythmic or polymetric?

Yes.

jason moyer 4th May 2020 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asynchro_nous (Post 14706889)
Holding out for the Ubharmonicon.abduction

The Grave? I think B will probably release the Rave first.

Mimmo 4th May 2020 09:27 AM

let's talk about the things that matter:

pink rubber buttons? for real?:lol:

Sebastian N 4th May 2020 09:52 AM

they're not pink. they light up red but i guess they're not so bright so they look pink(ish) in the picture. very ugly design choice compared to the rest of the classic looking synth

tricera 4th May 2020 11:05 AM

I didn't really get the concept or the usefulness of this the first time round. How would you use it practically?

Rob Ocelot 4th May 2020 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricera (Post 14708723)
I didn't really get the concept or the usefulness of this the first time round. How would you use it practically?

Good question.

On a basic level you could use the 4 subdivided triggers to generate polyrhythmic clocks through the patch bay, similar to the EHX Clockworks and a number of Eurorack modules. You could also generate 2 simultaneous 4 note sequences using one clock and one oscillator each. Pretty simple stuff and not really the Subharmonicon's strength.

The real meat would be generating chords that would change individual notes polyrhythmically. These chords could have up to 6 'notes' but that number could vary based on how many of the polyrhythmic triggers are coinciding. The chord sequence might take many iterations to repeat itself. Each of the oscillators/sub oscillators/polyrhythmic triggers can be output to the patch bay and be used to modulate and clock all sorts of other things (filters, envelopes, pitch, etc)

Most of this could be achieved with a combination of existing Eurorack modules (eg. MakeNoise Maths) but nowhere as cheaply or as compact and self-contained as Moog is presenting here. In that sense it's very similar to the DFAM.

To get a good idea of what this can do and the theory behind it give Loopop's video a view: