Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Gear Shoot-Outs / Sound File Comparisons / Audio Tests (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/)
-   -   UAD Luna Neve Summing on a mix compared to Sonimus Britson Summing (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/1306645-uad-luna-neve-summing-mix-compared-sonimus-britson-summing.html)

koenichsound 18th April 2020 12:17 AM

UAD Luna Neve Summing on a mix compared to Sonimus Britson Summing
 
4 Attachment(s)
Just was too curious and needed to know before investing 300$ in the UAD Luna "Neve Summing" Plugin how it would differ on my long-used workhorse plugin from Sonimus, the Sonimus Britson (which emulates Neve-like summing).

I loaded three stems into UAD Luna (DAW) and enabled Sonimus Britson Bus instances on three bus channels and the 2-bus channel, printed certain versions and then also loaded the Neve Summing plugin on all the buss channels and printed some versions as well.

There are four audio file attached to this thread labeled A-D:
One is the flat mix, one the Britson, one the Neve Summing and one the Britson in fat mode. Of course in some other random order ;-)
  • Can you guess which label belongs to which plugin&setting?
  • What is your favorite sounding audio file?


Disclaimer:
The low impedance mode of the Neve Summing plugin was not used for this comparison

increedit 19th April 2020 11:04 AM

great work, thanks for your time!
the devil knows where what, but I liked the order from best to worst: 1 (C), 3(A), 4(D), 2(B)
in any case, the difference is not worth a dollar, unless of course NEVE is not option B )))

Faint Brouhaha 19th April 2020 08:13 PM

B is the flat file.
D is Britson
A is Britson Fat
C is UA Neve Summing
yingyang

RobFish 19th April 2020 08:28 PM

Thank you for sharing this! I like C the most! However the differences are surprisingly small! May I ask, how hard the plugins were hit?

I was wondering if Luna's Summing-Engine (just the Daw-Summing without any Plugins) nulls with other Daws! So far, I couldn't find anything online!
I can't test it myself, because I don't own an Apollo! I just heard a few wild claims, that Luna's summing would sound "more 3d etc."...
Would be really interesting to see, if it nulls like all the other daws!

Faint Brouhaha 20th April 2020 10:04 AM

It would be worth considering the Lindell 80 plugs in this test, used as Britson in pass-thru on the channel strip. That'd put Brainworx' TMT into the mix.

RobFish 20th April 2020 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faint Brouhaha (Post 14673117)
B is the flat file.
D is Britson
A is Britson Fat
C is UA Neve Summing
yingyang

interesting! thanks for taking the time to do this!

Jeff Tummond 20th April 2020 08:26 PM

A)Britson
B)Flat
C)UAD
D)Britson Fat

Whatever C turns out to be i sounded a little more like ACDC then the outhers rockout

koenichsound 21st April 2020 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by increedit (Post 14672034)
great work, thanks for your time!
the devil knows where what, but I liked the order from best to worst: 1 (C), 3(A), 4(D), 2(B)
in any case, the difference is not worth a dollar, unless of course NEVE is not option B )))

Correct. The NEVE is not option B


Quote:

Originally Posted by Faint Brouhaha (Post 14673117)
B is the flat file.
D is Britson
A is Britson Fat
C is UA Neve Summing
yingyang

Good guess. Thanks
You got two out of four. Incredible!


Quote:

Originally Posted by RobFish (Post 14673160)
Thank you for sharing this! I like C the most! However the differences are surprisingly small! May I ask, how hard the plugins were hit?

I was wondering if Luna's Summing-Engine (just the Daw-Summing without any Plugins) nulls with other Daws! So far, I couldn't find anything online!
I can't test it myself, because I don't own an Apollo! I just heard a few wild claims, that Luna's summing would sound "more 3d etc."...
Would be really interesting to see, if it nulls like all the other daws!

The plugins were hit as max. hard as they should by their spec.
The MixBus/TwoBus toggled around -3 to 0 VU.
The individual Busses where a bit lower to keep the overall gain stage clean. For sure you can hit the busses harder and trim down but I did not want to color but stage from track to mixbus.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Tummond (Post 14675717)
A)Britson
B)Flat
C)UAD
D)Britson Fat

Whatever C turns out to be i sounded a little more like ACDC then the outhers rockout

One out of four.
I feel with you on C to be more ACDC then the others ;-) But it is just a summing comparison and not yet mastered.

Illusionaire 21st April 2020 09:49 PM

Hello!
I don't have UAD hardware and I can't use Luna or the Neve summing, but I have been using Britson for a long time and I prefer it to other emulations like Lindell 80 for example. So I will give this a wild guess, based only on my experience from Britson.
A) UAD
B) Flat
C) Britson FAT
D) Britson normal

Fat mode in Britson has reduced headroom and trims some transients in exchange for more harmonics.

RobFish 22nd April 2020 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14678228)
The plugins were hit as max. hard as they should by their spec. The MixBus/TwoBus toggled around -3 to 0 VU.
The individual Busses where a bit lower to keep the overall gain stage clean. For sure you can hit the busses harder and trim down but I did not want to color but stage from track to mixbus.

Perfect, thanks for the info!
When are you planning on revealing it?

koenichsound 22nd April 2020 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusionaire (Post 14678453)
Hello!
I don't have UAD hardware and I can't use Luna or the Neve summing, but I have been using Britson for a long time and I prefer it to other emulations like Lindell 80 for example. So I will give this a wild guess, based only on my experience from Britson.
A) UAD
B) Flat
C) Britson FAT
D) Britson normal

Fat mode in Britson has reduced headroom and trims some transients in exchange for more harmonics.


We have a winner rockout: 4 out of 4 man. Your experience guided you well.

koenichsound 22nd April 2020 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faint Brouhaha (Post 14674463)
It would be worth considering the Lindell 80 plugs in this test, used as Britson in pass-thru on the channel strip. That'd put Brainworx' TMT into the mix.

Would do but I do not own the Lindel 80 plugs :-(

koenichsound 22nd April 2020 09:19 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Well folks, Illusionaire made the correct guess so it's official revelation time!

Neve Summing (High Impedance): A
Flat (No Summing): B
Britson Fat Mode: C
Britson Normal Mode: D


As a goodie, RobFish asked about the following favor:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobFish (Post 14673160)
Thank you for sharing this! I like C the most! However the differences are surprisingly small! May I ask, how hard the plugins were hit?

I was wondering if Luna's Summing-Engine (just the Daw-Summing without any Plugins) nulls with other Daws! So far, I couldn't find anything online!
I can't test it myself, because I don't own an Apollo! I just heard a few wild claims, that Luna's summing would sound "more 3d etc."...
Would be really interesting to see, if it nulls like all the other daws!

Well, I rendered the three stems from this thread for the Britson vs. Neve Summing comparison flat out of REAPER and flat out of LUNA. Can you hear any difference?
(I do, but I have been into curfew for maybe too long)
Which engine is behind file A or B?

Illusionaire 22nd April 2020 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14680801)
We have a winner rockout: 4 out of 4 man. Your experience guided you well.

Wow! That means Britson still holds up, and next to UAD no less! I'm glad!

I love its sound and its sonic balance.

I have the Lindell Channel 80. If you want, you can send me the tracks and I can pass them through the plugins. However I can't run Luna, I have only Reaper here. But I don't think that will make a difference with all faders at zero.
Or you can download Lindell for a 14 day free trial.

Personally I prefer Britson to Lindell. But it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks.

koenichsound 22nd April 2020 09:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Okay. You also made me do a mixdown/render from Luna DAW utilizing the Lindell 80 Bus plugin on the busses and 2-bus. Attached is the audio file and it would be interesting how everyone rates this one next to the other versions.


All in all, I like Luna as a kinda new DAW because it supports my style of recording & mixing. I am used to Reaper and Samplitude as main DAWs and could never get used to Pro Tools. It is obviously great and awesome to have a Neve Summing as a first input slot built into your DAW and it does not sound bad, does it? Yet it is system restricted and the price point is also to be considered. And there will be, for sure, more simulations coming up. SSL, API, Harrison...here you go.
And by the way, Sonimus also offers SSL 4000 style summing called "Satson".

Have a great mixing day!

Jeff Tummond 23rd April 2020 06:50 AM

Welp, learn something new everyday. In the end they all hold up well.

escalona 23rd April 2020 10:12 PM

Stick to Britson. Do not even bother about the lindell little thing.

Taurean 24th April 2020 07:44 PM

I like A best and C second. EDIT: Then downloaded Lindell and that takes second for me. I've been liking that a lot lately but have to say the UAD sounds good.

TonStrom 24th April 2020 11:24 PM

thanks for the comparison kfhkh

it made me buy BRITSON (sounds great with UNISUM btw).
i like the fat mode more than the UAD Neve summing and it is funny , that the first 4 entries above all liked Britson fat the most
or thought, that that example was the UAD Neve ;)


and i also got and like LINDELL 80

Durk Diggler 25th April 2020 02:35 PM

Sonimus Britson 48H flash sale - $28

https://www.sonimus.com/products/britson/

WheelieR 25th April 2020 04:11 PM

Thank you for doing the blind-test !

Before looking at the answers,

C stood out from all of them to me. It also seemed to be louder (but it does not seem to be).

Then D was cool.

I wasn't sure if I did not preferred B to A (slightly preferred A tho').
Whereas it was obvious I prefer C over B (a bit less obvious for D over B).

All in all, pretty surprised (and I must admit, happy) to see the results.

Made me considering trying Britson.

But in this example here you "only" used 3 stems right ? I assume GUITAR / BASS / DRUMS.

Thanks a lot !

4fmb 25th April 2020 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14680938)
Okay. You also made me do a mixdown/render from Luna DAW utilizing the Lindell 80 Bus plugin on the busses and 2-bus. Attached is the audio file and it would be interesting how everyone rates this one next to the other versions.


All in all, I like Luna as a kinda new DAW because it supports my style of recording & mixing. I am used to Reaper and Samplitude as main DAWs and could never get used to Pro Tools. It is obviously great and awesome to have a Neve Summing as a first input slot built into your DAW and it does not sound bad, does it? Yet it is system restricted and the price point is also to be considered. And there will be, for sure, more simulations coming up. SSL, API, Harrison...here you go.
And by the way, Sonimus also offers SSL 4000 style summing called "Satson".

Have a great mixing day!

Came upon this thread after your initial reveal, but here's my take on the second series.

To me, the Lindell and the A engine render sound very close. I prefer the B engine render -a tad more crack on the snare, thump on the bd, and the guitars have a bit more edge. In none of the 3 does the bass to me sound like I like a bass to sound.

koenichsound 25th April 2020 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelieR (Post 14687382)
Thank you for doing the blind-test !

Before looking at the answers,

C stood out from all of them to me. It also seemed to be louder (but it does not seem to be).

Then D was cool.

I wasn't sure if I did not preferred B to A (slightly preferred A tho').
Whereas it was obvious I prefer C over B (a bit less obvious for D over B).

All in all, pretty surprised (and I must admit, happy) to see the results.

Made me considering trying Britson.

But in this example here you "only" used 3 stems right ? I assume GUITAR / BASS / DRUMS.

Thanks a lot !

Correct. I only used three stems. There would a vocal stem too but all in all that's it to reflect the summing I use to have. All my individual tracks are trimmed and routed to a bus. The summing just sits on Busses and on the Main Bus.

koenichsound 25th April 2020 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4fmb (Post 14687708)
Came upon this thread after your initial reveal, but here's my take on the second series.

To me, the Lindell and the A engine render sound very close. I prefer the B engine render -a tad more crack on the snare, thump on the bd, and the guitars have a bit more edge. In none of the 3 does the bass to me sound like I like a bass to sound.

Thanks for joining this thread 4fmb. Would you please like to elaborate what you would like to hear from a bass tone then?

4fmb 25th April 2020 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14688217)
Thanks for joining this thread 4fmb. Would you please like to elaborate what you would like to hear from a bass tone then?

Took another listen -now B and the Lindell sound closer to each other! And the A's not far behind. Well, I'm only on my office speakers today (old AR Powered Partners, taking signal from my Apollo Twin).

But in this listening setup, anyway, the bass to me feels like it's veiled. I can hear a little of the zing in the strings right at the end, and I like that -but there's little roundness, depth, balls in the tone. I know the part is mostly just holding down the bottom end, and it does that. Me, I like more movement (not in terms of the actual notes being played, but in liveliness, 3D-ness). As a point of comparison, I could say it just sounds di'd, and I imagine what a, say, UAD B15N cab on it could do!

Just IMO. Thanks for putting the clips up!

SameOh 26th April 2020 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14688213)
Correct. I only used three stems. There would a vocal stem too but all in all that's it to reflect the summing I use to have. All my individual tracks are trimmed and routed to a bus. The summing just sits on Busses and on the Main Bus.

How hard were you hitting the plugins?

I mean, each stem were around what level?

SameOh 28th April 2020 05:15 PM

Listening now I think Lindell is the one that checks the most of what I think a Neve circuit should do. More bottom, density and the peaks on the high end more controlled. It's also the closest one to passing the 2-BUS through my BAE or my Silver Bullet. Not the same, but similar.

Motor For Music 29th April 2020 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koenichsound (Post 14680938)

All in all, I like Luna as a kinda new DAW because it supports my style of recording & mixing.

Luna is not a DAW its a recording system :guitarjam:

b0se 1st May 2020 11:49 AM

Thanks for this @ koenichsound

B was my favourite until I heard Lindell, which then took the top spot. Probably because...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOh (Post 14694457)
Listening now I think Lindell is the one that checks the most of what I think a Neve circuit should do. More bottom, density and the peaks on the high end more controlled. It's also the closest one to passing the 2-BUS through my BAE or my Silver Bullet. Not the same, but similar.

... I agree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOh (Post 14688520)
How hard were you hitting the plugins?

I mean, each stem were around what level?

Was going to ask this too.

I'm surprised actually how good they all sounded with just bus saturation, I assumed it would be on every channel.

Food for thought.

b0se 1st May 2020 07:13 PM

Update: Ended up buying Briston. Did some blind AB testing on my own stuff via HOFA and preferred it on a couple of tracks.