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-   -   Does anyone know what the scientific term is for when the brain “adds” audio? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/1295822-does-anyone-know-what-scientific-term-when-brain-adds-audio.html)

Franco 23rd January 2020 08:20 PM

Does anyone know what the scientific term is for when the brain “adds” audio?
 
I’m wondering if there’s a Scientific term for this, let me describe what I mean:

I’m mastering a song for a client (they produced and mixed the track) where they’ve used a sample of a speech in the intro, right before the first verse. The issue is that you really can’t make out what that clip of the speech is saying, it just sounds like words that (to my ears) sound tucked under the instrumentation.

He tells me he can hear it just fine (again, he’s produced the track and mixed it so he knows what that bit is, because he sampled it from the original speech and also mixed it).

We are moving on, and I’ve told him that it’s possible that because he has heard the isolated speech, his brain is able to pick out the words over the rest of the music, but that someone listening to the track for the first time might not, especially if they’ve never heard that particular speech. I thought it would be good to know if there’s a proper term for this effect; does anyone know?

Earcatcher 23rd January 2020 11:13 PM

Expectation bias?

David Spearritt 24th January 2020 12:01 AM

The term is probably "cross correlation" but as Earcatcher indicates it is related to expectation or what you know or remember about a sound already.

Some air traffic controllers can hear noisy radio speech in very low SNR transmissions and still find it intelligible because their brain "cross correlates" a known command or remembered waveform or signature with the noisy signal and can "dig it out".

Have a look at Cocktail party effect too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_effect

The late great Prof Charles Taylor from Cardiff Uni did a lot of work on starting transients in musical instruments and their importance in recognizing individual instruments in an orchestral tutti for example. The brain is very clever.

lowland 24th January 2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Spearritt (Post 14484787)
The brain is very clever.

Incredible how we infer the presence of a fundamental tone on detecting a series of harmonics as when we 'hear' low bass from a speaker that rolls off well before that point, something manufacturers have traded on for decades.

mattpyter 24th January 2020 08:30 AM

Auditory hallucination - but Earcatcher is probably closer to what you are thinking with expectation bias.

FabienTDR 24th January 2020 10:14 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_imagery ?

Silvertone 24th January 2020 12:47 PM

I highly recommend the book This is your Brain on Music. It’s a heavy read but delves into how the ear/brain mechanism works.

We communicated with music before speech was developed. Music is the only thing that uses and is stored in every part of the brain. Now think about that for a moment. It’s stored in your memory which is why it can transport you in time. It’s stored in muscle memory, it can make you dance, I move when I play bass guitar and never knew why. It’s part of my retrieval system to remember bass lines.

It’s proven that people become smarter when exposed to music education. All music appreciation classes should be restored in our school systems.

deedeeyeah 24th January 2020 02:21 PM

...could also get associated with the wide field of psychoacoustics if not being at the core of how we function: we're making up things in a way which seems to make sense!

mastermat 25th January 2020 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertone (Post 14485752)

It’s proven that people become smarter when exposed to music education.

I don´t say you are wrong, but it´s not proven! as far as I know those studies failed to be reproduced and don´t count as scientific proof therefore.
basically everything that makes your brain "work out" makes you "smarter". music on the contrary is less effective in this than other things, eg playing chess. in fact it couldn´t even be "proven" by scientific standards that there is a benefit of musical education (also instrument playing) for the "smartness", whereas it could be proven without a doubt for other activities of the brain (eg chess). but what does "smart" mean anyway. there are certainly different forms of smartness
music doesn´t make you smarter imo, but it makes you wiser and more aware - but that´s of course difficult to prove (if possible to proof at all).
just read about that, sorry for trying to be a smart ass, but my alarm bells are going on everytime people mention "something is proven" peachh

SingerSongWriter 25th January 2020 08:48 AM

I get locked into listening to the track I'm working with and I exclude others to the point where other tracks get buried but I'm not realizing it at the time. I used to mix my vocals too low until a learned a trick where you take off your headphones and place them about 4 feet away and gradually turn down the master. When the vocals are the last thing you can hear then you are in the ballpark.

For me it's a little like painting and the use of color. For instance, stare at a magenta piece of paper then look away at green grass and trees. The green will look more intense than normal. While that has something to do with the rod and cones in our eyes, probably has a lot to do with our optic nerves and visual cortex. The same may hold true for our other senses.

The only thing I can do to avoid it is to take breaks. Right now I don't have another pair of ears to help me so I'm always second guessing.

Trakworx 25th January 2020 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco (Post 14484191)
I’m wondering if there’s a Scientific term for this, let me describe what I mean:

I’m mastering a song for a client (they produced and mixed the track) where they’ve used a sample of a speech in the intro, right before the first verse. The issue is that you really can’t make out what that clip of the speech is saying, it just sounds like words that (to my ears) sound tucked under the instrumentation.

He tells me he can hear it just fine (again, he’s produced the track and mixed it so he knows what that bit is, because he sampled it from the original speech and also mixed it).

We are moving on, and I’ve told him that it’s possible that because he has heard the isolated speech, his brain is able to pick out the words over the rest of the music, but that someone listening to the track for the first time might not, especially if they’ve never heard that particular speech. I thought it would be good to know if there’s a proper term for this effect; does anyone know?

In the case you describe the closest scientific term would have to be simply: memory.

Interesting answers in this thread though!

SmoothTone 25th January 2020 09:10 PM

It seems Auditory Illusion best describes the phenomenon as it relates to sound.

It is relatively common for listeners to "hear" sounds that are not really there. In fact, it is the brain's ability to reconstruct fragmented sounds that allows us to successfully carry on a conversation in a noisy room.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1125134655.htm


There is also a visual phenomenon called Filling In. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine the brain can do this with other senses or more broadly with information processing, but visual perception has dominated the research.

The manner in which the brain deals with inexplicable gaps in the retinal image—a process called filling in—provides a striking example of this principle. You can demonstrate this using the blind spot of your eye.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a.../mind-the-gap/

thehightenor 25th January 2020 10:05 PM

I once spent 5 minutes working on a track at the mix stage thinking this sounds great,
until I suddenly realised I had muted the bass - my brain was literally filling in the bass line in my mind.

The thing is, I have very good internal auditory imagery and just occasionally I can come unstuck with filling in audio
that's not there!

David Spearritt 25th January 2020 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothTone (Post 14488926)
It seems Auditory Illusion best describes the phenomenon as it relates to sound.

The phenomenon the OP was referring to was not filling in any gaps for stuff that isn't there, it is filling in the gaps because you have heard what's there before and know what to expect. These are two completely different issues.

SmoothTone 25th January 2020 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Spearritt (Post 14489097)
The phenomenon the OP was referring to was not filling in any gaps for stuff that isn't there, it is filling in the gaps because you have heard what's there before and know what to expect. These are two completely different issues.

Fair point. After thinking more about it, I think Fabien is probably closest with 'audio imagery.'

I still have a hunch that this 'filling in' is indicative of a meta process underlying all types of perception and information processing.

chessparov2.0 25th January 2020 11:57 PM

Well in the 60's/70's they called it... Stoned!hooppiepeachh

BTW we have "ghost images" in high level Chess too. Including sometimes myself!:heh:

As both a Singer and Chess Master, I'm firmly in "Silvertone's Camp" on this.kfhkh

Chess AND Music both improve overall intelligence. I've worked with thousand of kids, over the years-training them in Chess.
Plenty of them were into Music Lessons, etc.
Chris

Franco 26th January 2020 04:58 AM

Some very interesting answers indeed! I asked around on reddit and someone made me aware of the “McGurk Effect”. Not exactly related to having the information beforehand, but their point was that your auditory perception is “tricked” by other sensory perception/memory. Here’s a video on that:

https://youtu.be/G-lN8vWm3m0

12tone 26th January 2020 05:40 AM

YOLE

'Yanny' or 'Laurel' Effect.

Adam Dempsey 27th January 2020 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakworx (Post 14488624)
In the case you describe the closest scientific term would have to be simply: memory.

Interesting answers in this thread though!

Yes I'd say acoustic memory, which can be very acute. Similarly, if I think of it (as opposed to an "ear worm" which is involuntary) I can still hear a song as clear as day in my mind that I heard at lunch yesterday, that I hadn't heard since the '80s.

Bignatius 27th January 2020 02:24 AM

Addeurism

Aivaras 28th January 2020 05:28 PM

That is what we do all the time when listening to the same piece of music through different sound reproduction systems: 1) passively developing and 2) actively applying our synthetic experience (adding up multiple experiences into a complex perceptual whole). Humans are synthesizers! When they're fed a waveform, each one inwardly produces (synthesizes) a different sound, albeit similar (the single-nature, communal, intersubjective aspect).

Timesaver800W 29th January 2020 03:01 PM

Agreed. Memory always play a huge role, whether the listener is aware of it or not.

Fay Smearing 29th January 2020 03:26 PM

Maybe it's Schizophrenia.

Fay Smearing 29th January 2020 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Smearing (Post 14497063)
Maybe it's Schizophrenia.

You might be on to something there.

mattpyter 31st January 2020 01:00 PM

auditory hallucinations are not exclusive to schizophrenia

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/h/hearing-voices

don’t feel bad, though - most professional doctors that don’t even understand the difference between schizophrenia and other disorders

i blame the education system and pop culture/media

chessparov2.0 1st February 2020 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Smearing (Post 14497063)
Maybe it's Schizophrenia.

What a great Who album!
Chris

12tone 1st February 2020 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 (Post 14503269)
What a great Who album!
Chris

Also a great album by Wayne Shorter.

mattpyter 1st February 2020 03:00 AM

Sepultura!

eternalsound 3rd February 2020 11:08 AM

OP: I think this is called "knowing what was said because he sampled it" syndrome. That's it.