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-   -   I wrote a hit song but need to know (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/songwriting/1294158-i-wrote-hit-song-but-need-know.html)

kittyfranco 11th January 2020 12:10 AM

I wrote a hit song but need to know
 
if it has already been written. Kind of like Paul dreaming Yesterday. He had to ask around. Could have sworn it was something he heard.

Is there an online algorithm to test a melody to see if it has been dreamed up and recorded already?

hello people 11th January 2020 04:29 AM

Just link it here and you'll be told in 2 seconds

johnny nowhere 11th January 2020 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello people (Post 14442826)
Just link it here and you'll be told in 2 seconds

Best damned piece of advice I've ever seen given on this forum. :lol:

TRSC 11th January 2020 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14442306)
if it has already been written. Kind of like Paul dreaming Yesterday. He had to ask around. Could have sworn it was something he heard.

Is there an online algorithm to test a melody to see if it has been dreamed up and recorded already?

If you really think you have something special, don't play it here. Probably none of the people who would critique it here have the ear, experience or knowledge to assess it properly as to whether it has mass appeal.

Seriously, do the work and find someone who matters- and let them hear it. The chance of anyone on here actually helping you is very slim, because most of the people on here don't know what makes a hit a 'hit'- they may understand all the technical details but they don't have a producer's ear or vision.

Good luck.

I. E. 11th January 2020 06:46 PM

TRSC has a good a point. It's a double-edged sword though. We could either encourage or discourage you in case you decide to share your hit song with us. The worst that could happen is that we would pinpoint any problematic parts (e.g. section A doesn't lead well into section B).

Anyone attempting to steal your ideas would be met in a dark alley by a group of us.* abduction We got your back.

*for a small fee that the hit song would definitely cover. :)

theblue1 11th January 2020 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRSC (Post 14443397)
If you really think you have something special, don't play it here. Probably none of the people who would critique it here have the ear, experience or knowledge to assess it properly as to whether it has mass appeal.

Seriously, do the work and find someone who matters- and let them hear it. The chance of anyone on here actually helping you is very slim, because most of the people on here don't know what makes a hit a 'hit'- they may understand all the technical details but they don't have a producer's ear or vision.

Good luck.

I'm sure the collective readership of GS thanks you for the perhaps not entirely gratuitous slight... ;)

... but the OP was looking for an 'originality check' -- not a 'genius check.'

He already seems to feel it's got hit quality, he just apparently wants to make sure he didn't 'reinvent' someone else's work.

It should probably also be noted he seemed to be looking for an app -- rather than human listeners -- which we might leap to presume means he's worried about it getting ripped off or copied. It's been my general experience that most alleged song rip offs come from former bandmates and/or performance/writing partners. Even when bandmates didn't formally contribute to a song, they have often seemed to develop a sense of ownership over time that sometimes leads to contention with the actual writers. The other common vector seems to be managers and suits, but they're more likely to accomplish their dire deeds with paperwork and deceit.

What I haven't heard alleged are thefts that have derived from posting songs openly or passing around cassettes. That's NOT to say that it couldn't or doesn't happen. I strongly suspect, at least to some extent, it certainly does.

But it's also my sense that most folks who have to steal songs typically don't have the imagination and insight to recognize a jewel in the rough... they seem more likely to steal from stuff that's already been a hit and proven its commercial appeal.

I also suspect that many such types don't have the imagination or skill to take a raw, potential hit (they have stolen from someone) and turn it into something that can actually rise in the marketplace.

But, you know, experience and life being what it is, as soon as someone like me suggests that something like that is almost never going to happen... it just might.

Sharp11 11th January 2020 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14444070)
I'm sure the collective readership of GS thanks you for the perhaps not entirely gratuitous slight... ;)

... but the OP was looking for an 'originality check' -- not a 'genius check.'

He already seems to feel it's got hit quality, he just apparently wants to make sure he didn't 'reinvent' someone else's work.

That's right; and what I always tell my students is if you think your song is worth millions of $, you should be happy to have the problem of being sued and sharing royalties on it. ;)

theblue1 11th January 2020 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharp11 (Post 14444093)
That's right; and what I always tell my students is if you think your song is worth millions of $, you should be happy to have the problem of being sued and sharing royalties on it. ;)

First world problem, champagne division.

Jeff Hayat 12th January 2020 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14442306)
I wrote a hit song

Really? What stations is it playing on?


Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14442306)
Is there an online algorithm to test a melody to see if it has been dreamed up and recorded already?

https://www.musipedia.org/

http://bestclassicaltunes.com/DictionaryPiano.aspx

And more.

Cheers.

theblue1 12th January 2020 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14444891)
Really? What stations is it playing on?




https://www.musipedia.org/

http://bestclassicaltunes.com/DictionaryPiano.aspx

And more.

Cheers.

I haven't had a chance to play with those yet, but they look really interesting!

Jeff Hayat 12th January 2020 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14446473)
I haven't had a chance to play with those yet, but they look really interesting!

They can actually work, believe it or not.

theblue1 12th January 2020 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14446524)
They can actually work, believe it or not.

I will have to explore them. Whenever I come up with what sounds to me like an enticing melody, I figure I'm unknowingly stealing some or all of it from somewhere... ;)

Jeff Hayat 12th January 2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14446611)
I will have to explore them. Whenever I come up with what sounds to me like an enticing melody, I figure I'm unknowingly stealing some or all of it from somewhere... ;)

Well, technically, everyone who writes/composes is stealing something from somewhere. It just comes down to a person's definition of "stealing".

Herr Weiss 13th January 2020 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14446977)
Well, technically, everyone who writes/composes is stealing something from somewhere. It just comes down to a person's definition of "stealing".

I resent that insinuation!


~HW

Jeff Hayat 13th January 2020 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14449710)
I resent that insinuation!

As do I, but facts are facts.

Herr Weiss 14th January 2020 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14449779)
As do I, but facts are facts.

It makes sense that somehow/someway, every tune that I ever heard is imprinted in my brain.
Still, it does not mean that I consciously or subconsciously tap into this amalgam of music memories when composing.

Give me some facts to the contrary.


~HW

Jeff Hayat 14th January 2020 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14450546)
It makes sense that somehow/someway, every tune that I ever heard is imprinted in my brain.

Yep. Do you lose some stuff over time? Probably. But most - if not all - of it is there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14450546)
Still, it does not mean that I consciously or subconsciously tap into this amalgam of music memories when composing.

Usually not consciously.

When you write - you write what you are familiar with; you write what you know. And it all has to come from somewhere.

You have a library of music in your brain. When you sit down at the piano, at the drum set, with a guitar, when you stand in front of a mic... when you try to write, or just improvise, you are accessing that library.

Now, is that theft? No - not if you go by the dictionary def of that word. But you are taking pieces of what's up there to express yourself musically.

Cheers.

Herr Weiss 14th January 2020 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14450852)
Yep. Do you lose some stuff over time? Probably. But most - if not all - of it is there.



Usually not consciously.

When you write - you write what you are familiar with; you write what you know. And it all has to come from somewhere.

You have a library of music in your brain. When you sit down at the piano, at the drum set, with a guitar, when you stand in front of a mic... when you try to write, or just improvise, you are accessing that library.

Now, is that theft? No - not if you go by the dictionary def of that word. But you are taking pieces of what's up there to express yourself musically.

Cheers.

I do not agree with you at all.

If what you said is true, all one had to do was to listen to "The Greatest Hits Ever" and voilá, you have your own "hit".

Nevermind that some people go as far as "stealing" the complete chord progression of a song and still have the gall to claim authorship.

People continue to write "mediocre" music because they lack discernment; they are not even aware that they go around wearing blinders their whole damn life!!


~HW

Jeff Hayat 14th January 2020 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14451882)
If what you said is true, all one had to do was to listen to "The Greatest Hits Ever" and voilá, you have your own "hit".


No - that's not the way it works. So, how exactly does it work? This is beyond my level of understanding, but it has to do with brain function, the ability to access what's there, and so on.

On the other hand, all one has to do is learn English, and they can have a conversation with anyone else who speaks English. Would they be able to have a conversation with anyone else? No.

Cheers.

Sharp11 14th January 2020 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14451882)
I do not agree with you at all.

If what you said is true, all one had to do was to listen to "The Greatest Hits Ever" and voilá, you have your own "hit".

Nevermind that some people go as far as "stealing" the complete chord progression of a song and still have the gall to claim authorship.

People continue to write "mediocre" music because they lack discernment; they are not even aware that they go around wearing blinders their whole damn life!!


~HW

You may not agree, but Jeff has the science on his side - 80% of your thinking is done at the unconscious level. The "aha" moment, when you're out walking and recognize a good tune in your mind is the brain sending it up for approval after having worked it out in your unconscious mind, where you had no access to it (this is the science behind the McCartney dream and "yesterday") - if you want to know more, google it up - it's fascinating.

The fine points of copyright law are a different matter, most people are woefully misguided by memes that simply aren't true. Copyright law is an evolutionary process, and unless you've been involved in a suit of your own, you have no idea what's involved.

Herr Weiss 14th January 2020 04:58 PM

Maybe I was misunderstood, but from my own experience, music that comes to me out of the blue, is 99.9% of my output.
I even feel guilty taking credit for it. gooof

I do want to post a favorite of mine, as an example of what can be done.


Sharp11 15th January 2020 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14452801)
Maybe I was misunderstood, but from my own experience, music that comes to me out of the blue, is 99.9% of my output.
I even feel guilty taking credit for it.

Yes, that's the point - the 99.9% percent you're claiming is your unconscious mind.

SingerSongWriter 15th January 2020 07:47 AM

The way it is now, stealing songs is easy. Good luck getting compensation. I've had an EDM song stolen and just getting it taken of streaming sites was a pain in the butt. I think it is still up on Google play. If someone in another country steals your intellectual property, good luck getting justice.

bill5 16th January 2020 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14446524)
They can actually work, believe it or not.

I tried this out of curiosity/boredom. They don't. I even tried some famous melodies and they didn't get it right.

In short: no, there's no online site to see if your melody was written. Even if the sites above actually worked reasonably well, there's no realistic way they will have anywhere near the volume of even all songs copyrighted, never mind all songs produced and played. The logical option for you is to just do it and if someone sues you because you have a hit record, that's probably a better situation to be in than recording it and nobody is interested in enough in it to care.

And if you throw it out on the internet on any site, don't be exactly shocked when it's ripped off unless you copyrighted it first.

Jeff Hayat 16th January 2020 05:14 AM

Well, they have worked for me in the past.

theblue1 16th January 2020 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingerSongWriter (Post 14455242)
The way it is now, stealing songs is easy. Good luck getting compensation. I've had an EDM song stolen and just getting it taken of streaming sites was a pain in the butt. I think it is still up on Google play. If someone in another country steals your intellectual property, good luck getting justice.

That's pretty interesting. I'm interested in any particulars you feel like sharing.

I've run into lots of, let's call them, unauthorized postings of recorded songs under the original artist's name, almost all of it in nations that don't (much) enforce copyright. (One can imagine their thinking on leaving the original artist's name: if anyone is searching for a song by title, they're probably looking for a specific tune; even more likely, they may be searching for favorite artists, in which case, the pirate site would definitely want to use the true artist's name.) I've found my own recordings (and I'm nobody ;) ) illicitly hosted 'around the world,' but under my own name. It's definitely something that has happened and no doubt continues to happen.

But I've always been at least a little surprised I haven't run into more people whose songs have been have been fully stolen (either the song, itself, or a recording thereof) and credit taken by the thief.

I've been discussing songwriting online since the 1990s (or before, since I participated in the dial up BB scene in the 80s) and even moderated a songwriting forum on (a different) once-busy musician website for seven years and, I have to say that the overwhelming majority of the song-theft claims I've heard/read over the years have been regarding songs 'stolen' by ex-music partners/bandmates/co-writers and so on -- people who presumably felt they'd contributed to the song enough to claim it or part of it.


So... did they steal your lyrics, your music, and/or your recording? And did they relabel it with another artist's name?

Thanks in advance for any info you want to share, as I want to be as accurate as possible when I talk about this stuff; your experience definitely counts.

soldat 25th January 2020 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14452801)
Maybe I was misunderstood, but from my own experience, music that comes to me out of the blue, is 99.9% of my output.

Nothing comes out of the blue! There isn't some existential force-field pervading the universe containing creativity that one taps into.

You hear things. Your brain files them away. You make music based on your past, your memories, the physicality of your instrument.

It's not theft (usually) it's literally how 'culture' works. Layers upon layers of semiotics and interaction with these learnt signifiers from birth.

ie. This hand gesture means X in France but Y in Thailand.

No one ever walked out of the remote Amazon never before communicating with the outside world playing Japanese traditional music.

We're all standing on the shoulders of giants. Even the most fresh, revolutionary records of all times are built on existing creative work. The Greats take other peoples old ideas and twist and manipulate and mutate them.

Zyzygis 25th January 2020 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldat (Post 14488065)
Nothing comes out of the blue! There isn't some existential force-field pervading the universe containing creativity that one taps into.

You hear things. Your brain files them away. You make music based on your past, your memories, the physicality of your instrument.

It's not theft (usually) it's literally how 'culture' works. Layers upon layers of semiotics and interaction with these learnt signifiers from birth.

ie. This hand gesture means X in France but Y in Thailand.

No one ever walked out of the remote Amazon never before communicating with the outside world playing Japanese traditional music.

We're all standing on the shoulders of giants. Even the most fresh, revolutionary records of all times are built on existing creative work. The Greats take other peoples old ideas and twist and manipulate and mutate them.

Culture IS appropriation!

Roll Tape 31st January 2020 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14442306)
if it has already been written. Kind of like Paul dreaming Yesterday. He had to ask around. Could have sworn it was something he heard.

Is there an online algorithm to test a melody to see if it has been dreamed up and recorded already?

I suggest the human algorithm,... play it for family, friends and strangers who are not musicians and get their gut reaction as to wether the song speaks to them and making a connection in some way.

Then take it to some musicians you can trust to get an honest opinion.

The listening jury will decide what they like and don't like,... but remember, you will never please everyone so expect some thumbs down responses. However, that should not stop you from pursuing your dream of writing a hit. There are countless bands and songwriiters that have been turned down by record companies and publishers only to prove them wrong due to perseverance and believing in themselves.

There is no such thing as the ultimate universal song that the entire human species will fall in love with.

Write and create what pleases you and the rest will usually fall in place. Don't fall into the 'Cookie Cutter Crap Trap',... stay original and true to yourself and the rewards may come.

RyanC 31st January 2020 03:41 PM

You can always try Shazam.