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-   -   Sync issues when zooming or soloing ? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/steinberg-cubase-nuendo/1293778-sync-issues-when-zooming-soloing.html)

Jeezo 8th January 2020 05:17 AM

Sync issues when zooming or soloing ?
 
Hi guyz , i'm new in the cubase wagon (even if i started with pro 24 lol back then )

I noticed today working on the foirst serious project that when i solo a track , when i un solo it then i got off sync for a sec or 2 then back to sync , same when i zoom time line during playback ....

Is it a known behavior or something wrong in my prefs ?

thks guyz ;)

thedberg 9th January 2020 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeezo (Post 14434025)
Hi guyz , i'm new in the cubase wagon (even if i started with pro 24 lol back then )

I noticed today working on the foirst serious project that when i solo a track , when i un solo it then i got off sync for a sec or 2 then back to sync , same when i zoom time line during playback ....

Is it a known behavior or something wrong in my prefs ?

thks guyz ;)

It happens to me sometimes for tracks with VSTis that use an arpeggiator.

pquinn 9th January 2020 09:23 AM

Same here

thedberg 9th January 2020 03:50 PM

To add:
I think it’s reasonable that arpeggiators get out of sync when triggered at random places. How would they know how to start at any other place than at one of the subdivisions they’re clocked at?

If I annoys me I just hit a key to get to a marker, för example Num+1 for left locator. Easy, peasy.

Jeezo 10th January 2020 01:14 AM

The thing is that it never happened to me in sonar or s1 , and i had the feeling that cubase engine was good , even better than s1 in plugin handling ...

Any more infos we can get , is linked to pdc , midi vst versus audio sync when both in the same project ?

No arpeggio here .... just zooming time line does this ... strange ...

tedannemann 10th January 2020 01:23 AM

Cubase does not offer a so called "gapless" audio engine. As soon as you insert something or make big changes in the audio stream or certain areas in the app you can get dropouts or out of sync moments as the pdc engine works actually in realtime, without aligning all the tracks to the next beat, bar or something like that as far as I know. In other words Cubase forces you to stop the audio engine as soon as you insert anything into the audio stream - or you have to learn to live with these dropouts or out of sync moments...

greggybud 10th January 2020 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeezo (Post 14439430)
No arpeggio here .... just zooming time line does this ... strange ...

As Tadannemnann said, "Cubase does not offer a so called "gapless" audio engine" and to my knowledge, never really has.

Therefore I would suggest you do some simple inserts and create some sends, while in play mode, and if the results are the same or similar my guess would be it's the gap issue. However if soloing/unsoloing manifests something different than the gap issue when inserting plugs, then it may be a different issue.

I have never had any gap issues with audio by simply solo/un-solo. Inserting plug-ins of course.

For myself, making Cubase gapless is low priority, It's certainly nice, but I fear it would take too many resources considering other things that need attention, and it doesn't inhibit my workflow or make me swear at Steinberg.

If you can create a simple .cpr without any plugs where this happens, I'm sure you could upload the .cpr to other users here to verify.

UnderTow 10th January 2020 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeezo (Post 14434025)
Hi guyz , i'm new in the cubase wagon (even if i started with pro 24 lol back then )

I noticed today working on the foirst serious project that when i solo a track , when i un solo it then i got off sync for a sec or 2 then back to sync , same when i zoom time line during playback ....

Is it a known behavior or something wrong in my prefs ?

thks guyz ;)

Hi Jeezo,

I haven't ever seen this behaviour. At least not the way you describe it.

The only thing that might be happening is that you are selecting the track that you solo. In that case, if you have "Enable Record on Selected MIDI/Audio Track" turned on in the preferences, it will make that track a realtime track and by-pass the ASIO guard buffer. That means a timing jump of course. And another timing jump when you deselect the track. (That is why I have these two options turned off).

The above does not explain the sync issues when zooming though...

Unless... unless you have "Auto Select Events under Cursor" and "Track Selection Follows Event Selection" plus the two options I mention above turned on. Then, if you zoom by clicking at the top and dragging, you are also moving the cursor I think and thus selecting a bunch of events under the cursor and in turn selecting their tracks and they then become realtime tracks and switch from the ASIO Guard buffer to the realtime buffer. Still following me? :lol:

Just try turning off the two options "Enable Record on Selected MIDI/Audio Track" and see if that fixes the problem.

Alistair

UnderTow 10th January 2020 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggybud (Post 14441248)
For myself, making Cubase gapless is low priority, It's certainly nice, but I fear it would take too many resources considering other things that need attention, and it doesn't inhibit my workflow or make me swear at Steinberg.

I don't actually believe it is physically possible. You can't AND have a gapless audio engine AND keep PDC in sync with everything. That goes against the laws of physics. If someone can explain to me how this could be achieved, I'll stand corrected.

Alistair

tedannemann 11th January 2020 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14441297)
I don't actually believe it is physically possible. You can't AND have a gapless audio engine AND keep PDC in sync with everything. That goes against the laws of physics. If someone can explain to me how this could be achieved, I'll stand corrected.

Alistair

Ableton Live 10 (without MIDI synced plug-ins and visuals), Bitwig 3 and Studio One 4.x do just that for example. Full working PDC without dropouts.
I assume that they add the new element (as Cubase does) but just behind the scenes and then somehow "release it" to the next useful musical time position (start of the next bar for example) - enabled by clever buffering.

Jeezo 11th January 2020 02:39 AM

Thks guyz a lot of great inputs here ... to be clear the problem is not the "Gapelless" issue basically , if i insert during playback a heavy plugin or some , for exemple , i can have a bank (gap ) or some in sonar in certain case , but i never have a loss of sync .... in cubase it seems that the track you're selecting or using mess it up ...

for the zoom it's even more strange ....
@ UnderTow thks homie i'm gonna double check the settings and try to isloate options / or scenario that provoks this .... i think this should be top priority for real .... and this prior to considering requests ...

greggybud 11th January 2020 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeezo (Post 14442641)
Thks guyz a lot of great inputs here ... to be clear the problem is not the "Gapelless" issue basically , if i insert during playback a heavy plugin or some , for exemple , i can have a bank (gap ) or some in sonar in certain case , but i never have a loss of sync .... in cubase it seems that the track you're selecting or using mess it up ...

for the zoom it's even more strange ....
@ UnderTow thks homie i'm gonna double check the settings and try to isloate options / or scenario that provoks this .... i think this should be top priority for real .... and this prior to considering requests ...

I'm not experiencing what you are if it's not the gap issue. Can you write a step-by step repro here? Or a movie? Also include your OS, and some system specs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14441297)
I don't actually believe it is physically possible. You can't AND have a gapless audio engine AND keep PDC in sync with everything. That goes against the laws of physics. If someone can explain to me how this could be achieved, I'll stand corrected.

Alistair

Yo Homie UnderTow! "gapless" is a Cubase forum complaint...at least compared to StudioOne, and as tedannemann says a couple others. It's enough of an issue for Steinberg to include it in a survey where you prioritize features and improvements.

Technically, I have no clue how it's achieved. Could be smoke and mirrors, but if so, its enough to get Cubase user attention that gaps happen in Cubase when they don't appear to happen in StudioOne... that is when you insert a plug while Cubase is playing.

Jeezo 11th January 2020 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14441295)
Hi Jeezo,

Unless... unless you have "Auto Select Events under Cursor" and "Track Selection Follows Event Selection" plus the two options I mention above turned on. Then, if you zoom by clicking at the top and dragging, you are also moving the cursor I think and thus selecting a bunch of events under the cursor and in turn selecting their tracks and they then become realtime tracks and switch from the ASIO Guard buffer to the realtime buffer. Still following me? :lol:

Alistair

Bingo for this one , zoom issue don't happend when i use zooming shortcut so i guess my options on mouse cursor did it ....

Thks

greggybud 11th January 2020 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14441295)

Unless... unless you have "Auto Select Events under Cursor" and "Track Selection Follows Event Selection" plus the two options I mention above turned on. Then, if you zoom by clicking at the top and dragging, you are also moving the cursor I think and thus selecting a bunch of events under the cursor and in turn selecting their tracks and they then become realtime tracks and switch from the ASIO Guard buffer to the realtime buffer. Still following me? :lol:

Great catch!kfhkh

I never would have thought of that.

UnderTow 11th January 2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggybud (Post 14442669)
Yo Homie UnderTow! "gapless" is a Cubase forum complaint...at least compared to StudioOne, and as tedannemann says a couple others. It's enough of an issue for Steinberg to include it in a survey where you prioritize features and improvements.

Technically, I have no clue how it's achieved. Could be smoke and mirrors, but if so, its enough to get Cubase user attention that gaps happen in Cubase when they don't appear to happen in StudioOne... that is when you insert a plug while Cubase is playing.

I'm a little worried Steinberg will "solve it" by only calculating PDC when you stop playback. That would make inserting something "gapless" but then things will not be entirely in sync. I suspect this is how the other DAWs do it (I could be wrong) but IMO this isn't better than a slight glitch when you insert a plugin. Or maybe all they will do is add a small fade. No problem with that of course.

Alistair

Jeezo 11th January 2020 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderTow (Post 14443680)
I'm a little worried Steinberg will "solve it" by only calculating PDC when you stop playback. That would make inserting something "gapless" but then things will not be entirely in sync. I suspect this is how the other DAWs do it (I could be wrong) but IMO this isn't better than a slight glitch when you insert a plugin. Or maybe all they will do is add a small fade. No problem with that of course.

Alistair

Its not gapless , in sonar if its heavy , you hear a small cut but all is in sync , my concern is more the loss of sync than a small blank in sound witch itch is basically a stop start sync pdc thing imho ...