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-   -   overcoming filesize limitations for remote recording (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/all-things-technical/1290097-overcoming-filesize-limitations-remote-recording.html)

studer58 3rd December 2019 06:15 PM

overcoming filesize limitations for remote recording
 
For those here mad enough to use a computer for location recording, what steps do you take to overcome filesize limitations when generating wav's ? I record with Reaper to a 64 bit Macbook Pro, at either 88.2 or 96k, and for a typical concert it doesn't take long to reach the 4GB limit.

Reaper seamlessly stops the current file at the limit size point, and creates a new one, with apparently no audible discontinuity between old and new files....but if I could stop this altogether I'd prefer that. creating stereo files (paired mics) just compounds the problem, esp at high sample rates...

Is it as simple as unticking the box in Preferences > Recording which says "Start new file after XXX MB" ...or perhaps selecting a different type of file which doesn't have this size limitation eg BWF WAV64 RF64 etc ?

deedeeyeah 3rd December 2019 09:00 PM

i've been using a pc as my main recording platform for ages and i could be using rf64 to record large files in nuendo...

... yet i don't see much of a problem as long as the recording doesn't stop: bwf files can easy be imported to the correct position in the timeline - and don't you cut files into tracks anyway?

studer58 4th December 2019 01:07 AM

One of the hidden presets (discovered later) was that Reaper auto generated a new file every 1GB...without a recording stop or cross fade of any sort, so it's quite benign. This happened every 33 mins, with a simple stereo mic pair concert recording. Now that I'm aware of that I can simply reconfigure it to a higher number...but if recording a concert multitrack at 88.2 or 96 it doesn't take long to reach such limits ! I prefer not to stop the recording manually at every movt break to manually create a new file...too risky.

Probably bwf or rf64 is the solution....are there any advantages (or otherwise) to recording these vs regular wav's ?

celticrogues 4th December 2019 01:08 AM

I may be wrong but I think the file splitting is a WAV thing, not a Reaper thing or a computer thing. AFAIK even standalone recorders like the 788t or MixPre series split WAV files at 4GB. It’s never been an issue for me at all.

-Mike

studer58 4th December 2019 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celticrogues (Post 14361755)
I may be wrong but I thinkthe file splitting is a WAV thing, not a Reaper thing or a computer thing. AFAIK even standalone recorders like the 788t or MixPre series split WAV files at 4GB. It’s never been an issue for me at all.

-Mike

Yes I'm sure that's what's occurring under the hood, and if the break/transition occurs transparently and invisibly then it's not a problem. However, generating fewer discrete files per concert recording is probably a desirable thing !

emenelton 4th December 2019 02:02 AM

4gb’s at 96/24 mono is ~ 4 hours per file

One concert I was stuck by the recorder I was using with poly files, so I did a start/stop cycle between pieces. It was, when flying blind, a bit harrowing

studer58 4th December 2019 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emenelton (Post 14361832)
4gb’s at 96/24 mono is ~ 4 hours per file

One concert I was stuck by the recorder I was using with poly files, so I did a start/stop cycle between pieces. It was, when flying blind, a bit harrowing

Where would a stereo file fit into that reckoning, as often used for main pairs, outriggers or any number of 2-mic spots (piano, woodwinds etc)...would it halve the time available per file ?

emenelton 4th December 2019 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 14361876)
Where would a stereo file fit into that reckoning, as often used for main pairs, outriggers or any number of 2-mic spots (piano, woodwinds etc)...would it halve the time available per file ?

Half yes.

Google:

96khz file size calculator

The Audio Archive site has a calculator

Folkie 5th December 2019 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 14360980)
For those here mad enough to use a computer for location recording, what steps do you take to overcome filesize limitations when generating wav's ? I record with Reaper to a 64 bit Macbook Pro, at either 88.2 or 96k, and for a typical concert it doesn't take long to reach the 4GB limit.

Reaper seamlessly stops the current file at the limit size point, and creates a new one, with apparently no audible discontinuity between old and new files....but if I could stop this altogether I'd prefer that. creating stereo files (paired mics) just compounds the problem, esp at high sample rates...

Is it as simple as unticking the box in Preferences > Recording which says "Start new file after XXX MB" ...or perhaps selecting a different type of file which doesn't have this size limitation eg BWF WAV64 RF64 etc ?

If Reaper creates seamless splits, why bother trying for larger files?
I’ve been recording with 788’s that split at 4GB
(or smaller if set that way). It’s easy enough to use Wave Agent to split the polywav into mono and stereo tracks and then line them up in a DAW.

Remember too, if you go for larger file sizes there’s
more to lose if a file is corrupted.

jimjazzdad 6th December 2019 02:00 AM

The 4GB file size is determined by the specification that Microsoft and IBM wrote for the Waveform Audio File Format (.wave, .wav) back in 1991. The wav file size limit is dictated the use of a 32-bit unsigned integer to record the file size header. At the time, 6.8 hours of music at 44.1/16 was deemed more than adequate. I record at a maximum of 96/24 and I have never needed to record for longer than two hour limit for a 24/96 stereo wav file - most orchestral pieces are considerably shorter than this. Even Wagnerian opera has intermissions on at least two hour intervals. But even so, if longer recording is required, the 'seamless' creation of sequential new files when the 4GB maximum size is reached seems like a workable solution.

tourtelot 6th December 2019 02:31 AM

FWIW, I have had some problems on my 788T being clocked via WC and having an audible "click" or "pop" when the 2GB size I had selected rolls over into a new file. I started clocking my 788T with AES over one of the digital pair (as opposed to using the WC BNC) and the problem went away. I also increased my max file size to 4GB which is pretty safe for most of the jobs I do, so I don't worry about it now, although the discovery of the flaw made me pretty crazy for a few jobs. SD had no explanation. Izotope RX fixed it but it was a bummer.

D.

Scragend 6th December 2019 03:16 AM

Cubase can record to RF64 files which gets past this limit - it can also mix down to wave64, I presume other DAWs have similar support - hit your manual!

studer58 6th December 2019 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scragend (Post 14366272)
Cubase can record to RF64 files which gets past this limit - it can also mix down to wave64, I presume other DAWs have similar support - hit your manual!

Reaper says:

Readable formats:
ACID, AIFF, AVI, BWF, CDDA, EDL, FLAC, KAR, MIDI, MOGG, MOV, MP3, MPEG, OGG VORBIS, OGG OPUS, QT, RADAR, REX2, SYX, W64, WAV, WAVPACK, WMV
Writeable formats
AIFF, AVI, BWF, CD ISO (CUE/BIN), FLAC, MIDI, MOV, MOGG, MP3 (with freely available encoder), OGG VORBIS, OGG OPUS, W64, WAV, WAVPACK

studer58 6th December 2019 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjazzdad (Post 14366193)
The 4GB file size is determined by the specification that Microsoft and IBM wrote for the Waveform Audio File Format (.wave, .wav) back in 1991. The wav file size limit is dictated the use of a 32-bit unsigned integer to record the file size header. At the time, 6.8 hours of music at 44.1/16 was deemed more than adequate. I record at a maximum of 96/24 and I have never needed to record for longer than two hour limit for a 24/96 stereo wav file - most orchestral pieces are considerably shorter than this. Even Wagnerian opera has intermissions on at least two hour intervals. But even so, if longer recording is required, the 'seamless' creation of sequential new files when the 4GB maximum size is reached seems like a workable solution.

As Doug has discovered here, auto-save in Reaper seems to be virtually instantaneous ....so perhaps specifying an optimal file size (and erring on the long side) isn't necessary ?

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=223368&

Also, here is some GS discussion on RF64 files as storage: Do you use RF64?

Scragend 6th December 2019 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studer58 (Post 14366357)
Reaper says:

Readable formats:
ACID, AIFF, AVI, BWF, CDDA, EDL, FLAC, KAR, MIDI, MOGG, MOV, MP3, MPEG, OGG VORBIS, OGG OPUS, QT, RADAR, REX2, SYX, W64, WAV, WAVPACK, WMV
Writeable formats
AIFF, AVI, BWF, CD ISO (CUE/BIN), FLAC, MIDI, MOV, MOGG, MP3 (with freely available encoder), OGG VORBIS, OGG OPUS, W64, WAV, WAVPACK

"W64" Bingo - presumably wave64 - that should do the trick.