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-   -   Guitar Amps as Monitors fed from the PA (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/live-sound/1289045-guitar-amps-monitors-fed-pa.html)

pitchwest 26th November 2019 06:18 AM

Guitar Amps as Monitors fed from the PA
 
Hi all,
Please let me know if this is possible; I'd like to run my guitar amp as a monitor but not only for myself but also from the mixing board. My accordion player runs into the PA board and out to the monitors. I use my own amp as a monitor for myself but would like to feed the accordion into my monitor. So, I'm plugged into my amp, the D.I. from my amp goes to the PA. I'd like to run the output PA monitor into my second input of my amp. Is that possible without frying my amp? Also, I thought that because I'm running my amp's signal out to the PA, if I plug the PA into my amp it'll create a feedback loop. If this isn't possible could anyone suggest how to configure this? Thank you

I'd be fine with running a D.I. to the PA between my guitar and amp to illuminate the feed back loop.

Seriously, that was as simple as I could word it!

shufflebeat 26th November 2019 09:11 AM

Is it an acoustic guitar amp (possibly with XLR in) or an electric guitar amp? Principles cover both but outcomes might be significantly different.

When you say "DI out goes to PA" that suggests it's an acoustic but better check.

pitchwest 26th November 2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shufflebeat (Post 14345184)
Is it an acoustic guitar amp (possibly with XLR in) or an electric guitar amp? Principles cover both but outcomes might be significantly different.

When you say "DI out goes to PA" that suggests it's an acoustic but better check.

Yeah, it's an acoustic amp. I'm looking at buying a new amp but the one I want only has a single D.I. out. Fishman has independent channel D.I. outs which would solve all my questions but I want option!

shufflebeat 26th November 2019 10:43 AM

Option #1 :

Split your accordion signal between amp and PA. If you're using a mic on a stand or a built-in unit with XLR out then and ART pro split will give you transformer isolated separation (a good thing) and independent control.

Mute the channel you're not using.

Option #2

A small sub-mixer for your channels, aux to amp, L/R to main mixer with guitar/accordion panned hard L/R.

Option #3

The one you describe.

How're we doing?

[Edit] these suggestions are dependent on how much you rely on EQ to get an acceptable sound and the type of gigs you're playing. I have done sound tech at gigs where folks turn up with very creative solutions for small gigs that do not scale up without issues.

pitchwest 26th November 2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shufflebeat (Post 14345284)
Option #1 :

Split your accordion signal between amp and PA. If you're using a mic on a stand or a built-in unit with XLR out then and ART pro split will give you transformer isolated separation (a good thing) and independent control.

Mute the channel you're not using.

Option #2

A small sub-mixer for your channels, aux to amp, L/R to main mixer with guitar/accordion panned hard L/R.

[Edit] these suggestions are dependent on how much you rely on EQ to get an acceptable sound and the type of gigs you're playing. I have done sound tech at gigs where folks turn up with very creative solutions for small gigs that do not scale up without issues.

Option #1 REPLY: I could split one or both instruments between the PA and amp but then my instrument wouldn't have any of the conditioning from my amp. It would but just a dry D.I. mix to the PA.

Option #2 REPLY: A sub mixer would still exclude my amps conditioning or eliminate the main boards mixing control for either instruments.

Option #3 seems fine but the D.I. is pre E.Q. so that would be the same as Option one's reply.

I've written this out a bunch and am considering it impossible. Seems so simple but without an amp with independent post E.Q. D.I.'s the guys at Laney headquarters might be right "you'll need to buy two amps!" Direct quote! haha

shufflebeat 26th November 2019 04:38 PM

Ok, you didn't mention the amp as processor.

1) instruments to sub-mixer (ch1&2) - level and eq matching
2) pre-fade post- eq aux out to amp, faders down (or ch1&2 not routed to L/R)
3) line out or mic from amp to mixer (ch3) to main out L/R
4) at main mixer inputs, eq L for guitar, R for accordion, mute unused as appropriate.

deedeeyeah 27th November 2019 09:13 AM

imo it's just a stupid idea, feeding an accordeon into a guitar combo! same for harp btw but taste can vary a lot...

shufflebeat 27th November 2019 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deedeeyeah (Post 14347521)
imo it's just a stupid idea, feeding an accordeon into a guitar combo! same for harp btw but taste can vary a lot...

Assuming you're talking about harmonica and not concert harp (which would be radical), for many people use of an amp is as fundamental a part of the sound as it would be for a Hendrix/Who/Clash tribute act.

Clean/dry is for laundry.

P.S. I am generally a Folkie in recent years but with a history of Punk which never really goes away.

deedeeyeah 27th November 2019 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shufflebeat (Post 14347655)
Assuming you're talking about harmonica and not concert harp (which would be radical), for many people use of an amp is as fundamental a part of the sound as it would be for a Hendrix/Who/Clash tribute act.

Clean/dry is for laundry.

P.S. I am generally a Folkie in recent years but with a history of Punk which never really goes away.

one can get a harp freaking loud through a guitar stack but i can hardly relate to it in terms of 'sound'; same (if nor worse) for accordeon but certainly not worth trying for 'monitoring'!

i'm generally a classical guy with a history in fusion and prog rock which never really goes away!

what's punk?

shufflebeat 27th November 2019 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deedeeyeah (Post 14347679)
one can get a harp freaking loud through a guitar stack but i can hardly relate to it in terms of 'sound'; same (if nor worse) for accordeon but certainly not worth trying for 'monitoring'!

I generally agree but the OP clarified that the sound of the amp was important to the goal. Not my first choice but I work with people for whom it is and their money is as good as anybody else's.

Quote:

...what's punk?
If you can't remember you were probably there - no-one should ever see the photographs.