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pablovius 8th November 2019 01:32 AM

ADR Shotgun Recs_Best Noise Rejection
 
Sadly my ADR booth is not the quietist and we're looking to replace our current shotgun. Any thoughts would be appreciated, specifically MKH 50/60/416, NTG3, CS3 and so forth.

Jay Rose 8th November 2019 04:04 AM

Is your booth big enough, or dead enough, that side-reflections won't color the sound? ADR shouldn't have any reverb or coloration of its own... you'll never match production dx, and it just makes it harder to mix. The room should have just enough reflection (on a deader angle of the mic) that the talent doesn't feel the need to project more than they did at the shoot.

Consider a hyper, even if you're trying to match something that for some reason was boomed with a gun.

[email protected] 8th November 2019 04:18 AM

I tossed out my '416 when I picked up a MKH-50. Amazing mic for ADR (at about 18 to 24") and for VO (at 10") it blows the doors off the '416. Very happy.
But, yes, you need to really spend some money on your room acoustics to be able to do convincing ADR.

ErikG 8th November 2019 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Rose (Post 14310183)
Is your booth big enough, or dead enough, that side-reflections won't color the sound? ADR shouldn't have any reverb or coloration of its own... you'll never match production dx, and it just makes it harder to mix. The room should have just enough reflection (on a deader angle of the mic) that the talent doesn't feel the need to project more than they did at the shoot.

Consider a hyper, even if you're trying to match something that for some reason was boomed with a gun.

You have issues with actors actually “over projecting”?
I feel it is mostly the reverse getting them to project enough. Interesting.

As for mic choice and distance the room is the boss when it comes to adr. Unless you have a large well designed great sounding adr stage (I have yet to see one in person that ticks all my boxes) then this will be true IMO.

tha_lode 8th November 2019 09:55 AM

MKH 50 has served us increadibly well ttoo. But our room was large enough and dead enough for it to work at a meters distance.

+1 on actors not projecting enough when we are trying to match the on screen performance.

deedeeyeah 8th November 2019 10:02 AM

there's no such thing as noise rejection with any shotgun but attenuation to the sides (and rear)...

i'm using schoeps, sanken and akg.

philper 8th November 2019 06:08 PM

Another vote for "fix the room first". Lots of possible solutions avail, small $ (furni pads, foam wedges) to big $, ugly to beautiful (architectural diffusers and custom made bass traps). Then you can use whatever mic you want.

minister 8th November 2019 07:19 PM

Fix your room first. A better mic only reveals how noisy it is.

Then get the mic that the Production Mixers are using most on the jobs you are working on.

smurfyou 8th November 2019 08:22 PM

Agreed, these are all still sensitive mics. If there is a high noise floor in the room you'll still hear it. I much prefer the MKH60 over a 416. Don't think I've ever tried an MKH50 for ADR but I can see it working well. The Rode NTG3 is surprisingly good. Schoeps, Neumann, etc they all make good mics. All will pickup noise.

Small room resonances and reflections kill ADR. And if you manage to get enough treatment to absorb the reflections then it will sound like one of those Porta-booths. You really need a decent size room.

cubivore 8th November 2019 09:36 PM

i've been using schoeps cmit and 641 and they're great, but you have to remember the rear pattern for some hypers and make sure there's treatment behind the mic too.

TVPostSound 8th November 2019 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minister (Post 14311422)
Fix your room first. A better mic only reveals how noisy it is.

Then get the mic that the Production Mixers are using most on the jobs you are working on.

Agree.
To add, if your room is treated, then you will be able to mic at distance.
I am so tired of proximity effect!!

SDDP 9th November 2019 01:17 AM

I was in the same boat a few years ago. Was using an Audio Technica 897 for years, but took too much time matching prod dx. So researched and was %99 set on the 416, till I found out about the MKH 40. I record adr in the main mix room and it has a slight natural reverb that the the 416 picks up. I rented both the 416 and the 40 on an ADR session and A/B'd them. The 40 won, it was very dry, rejected the rear verb of the room and has a wider cone (thus way more forgiving than the 416 narrow cone) than the 416 for when the actors move their heads out of the mics zone.

Mundox 9th November 2019 01:22 AM

Fix the room, and get the MKH 416 or 50/60.

We use 416s for all the ADR we do and get fantastic results.
But that's mostly because of the room not the mic itself.

I A/B'd 416 with a 60 once and it took me 30 seconds to match the sound of 416 to 60 with some gentle, broad EQ.

MKH60 would match production a little bit quicker possibly but I'd rather have the brightness of 416 and scoop it out later.

minister 9th November 2019 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mundox (Post 14312101)
Fix the room, and get the MKH 416 or 50/60.

We use 416s for all the ADR we do and get fantastic results.
But that's mostly because of the room not the mic itself.

I A/B'd 416 with a 60 once and it took me 30 seconds to match the sound of 416 to 60 with some gentle, broad EQ.

MKH60 would match production a little bit quicker possibly but I'd rather have the brightness of 416 and scoop it out later.

I put up what is requested by the Sound Super. I've had people request the Countryman B6 and a Rode. We'll put up whatever they want.

If I am the Sound Super, then I find out what was used on set.

Like on set, having some air between the actor and the mic is one of the keys to believability. This means a decent sized (larger than a booth), well-treated room.

thierryd 9th November 2019 09:13 AM

Agree with all of the above. Room first, then mic. Also room should be big enough to use mic at some distance (similar with on boom on location).
Check with location recordist what they were using (I always ask the location recordist in a meeting before shooting, to put the mic type in the track name i.e. Boom50 is a MKH50, Boom416 and so on, do we know the mic used for the particular scene). When we do location sound our favorite interior mic is a MKH50, although we use other mics in specific situation (such as 8040 with low ceilings). Exterior prefs are 8060 and 416 (sometimes others).
For ADR I would avoid a 416, when there is no boom op in the ADR studio, as the off axis coloration is not nice to say the least :-) and you can’t ask all actors to not move at all. For ADR I often use the MKH40 and COS11 lav, but adapt to what was used on location if necessary.

Greetings,

Thierry

Jay Rose 9th November 2019 06:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by deedeeyeah (Post 14310472)
there's no such thing as noise rejection with any shotgun but attenuation to the sides (and rear)...

And the attenuation is non-intuitive, which can lead newbies to trouble with a even a good gun like the Sennheiser 416. And others have different nodes you might not expect.

This is why you have to make sure side or rear reflective surfaces are either very far away, or well padded.