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-   -   Vocal echos problems (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/1275972-vocal-echos-problems.html)

HowardMil 18th August 2019 02:22 PM

Vocal echos problems
 
Hi Ethan - Audiophile room

I’ve put thick (4inch) 24 by 48 (gik ) panels at first reflection points.

Ceiling front wall cadi-cornered each side monster traps with a FRI range limiters - and now as Ethan recommends - (2) 244 full range on ceiling halfway between me and both speakers ( speakers slightly angled but as their 24 by 48 should be doing coverage?
FLOOR is CARPETED

Still getting strong vocal harsh reverberated sound on operatic female high Note voices. I can’t understand this. 24 by 14 room- speakers 4 feet from front wall- I’m 11 feet from speakers. 10 feet or more room behind my listening seat.

I haven’t even bothered yet putting up alpha 5 absorption/diffusion on wall 11 feet behind me!!!!
Help needed!!
Thanks
Howard

12ax7 18th August 2019 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardMil (Post 14155667)
I can’t understand this.

That's because (to my knowledge) NOBODY actually understands this:

I have even heard it happen in an actual "Opera House" (built in 1855) without any amplification at all!
http://www.radioparadise.com/scripts...con_stupid.gif
.

avare 18th August 2019 07:36 PM

1. The room has no height.

2. The 14' x ? walls are basically reflectors. Break up or absorb on those walls.

3. The 24 x ? walls are mostly untreated. That may be contributing to the echoes.

4. Enjoy!

HowardMil 27th August 2019 02:33 PM

If I understand you correctly- I need more absorption between first reflection points and my listening position on side walls? ( ceiling cloud 24by 48 gik 244 not much change)
I have diffuser Alpha 5 not up yet for back wall ( 24 feet long) — would that tone the ‘vocal flutter’ down??
Thanks
Howard

avare 27th August 2019 03:11 PM

tHE BACK WALL MAY BE IT. You have large portions of the side walls untreated..

HowardMil 28th August 2019 05:15 PM

Thanks that’s my next step!! ( Alpha 5 absorbing/ diffusion panels GIK)

Next problem : I have a small opening ( alcove 4 feet by 8 high, 1 foot deep) a touch behind and adjacent to left speaker. The other side is straight ( dry wall)

I seem to notice ( at times, depending on source material) slight image shift to the LEFT!
What possibilities are there to “ close” and or make this opening acoustically close or even to the right side?
I have ceiling bass traps on both corners and first reflection points on side walls are covered,
Thanks
Howard

HowardMil 29th August 2019 02:05 PM

Next problem : I have a small opening ( alcove 4 feet by 8 high, 1 foot deep) a touch behind and adjacent to left speaker. The other side is straight ( dry wall)

I seem to notice ( at times, depending on source material) slight image shift to the LEFT!
What possibilities are there to “ close” and or make this opening acoustically close or even to the right side?
I have ceiling bass traps on both corners and first reflection points on side walls are covered,
Thanks
Howard

avare 29th August 2019 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardMil (Post 14173726)
Next problem : I have a small opening ( alcove 4 feet by 8 high, 1 foot deep) a touch behind and adjacent to left speaker. The other side is straight ( dry wall)

I seem to notice ( at times, depending on source material) slight image shift to the LEFT!
What possibilities are there to “ close” and or make this opening acoustically close or even to the right side?
I have ceiling bass traps on both corners and first reflection points on side walls are covered,
Thanks
Howard

A plug of the aame material and thickness as the wall,

HowardMil 30th August 2019 03:36 PM

What would you suggest? Sheetrock panel, drywall divider, ? Any ideas help
Thanks

avare 30th August 2019 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardMil (Post 14175619)
What would you suggest? Sheetrock panel, drywall divider, ? Any ideas help
Thanks

The aame material and thickness as the wall,

HowardMil 6th September 2019 02:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
hi
What about this 6 by 4 window above the right reflection point with a 48 tall inch full range absorption panel standing in front ( but slightly below) half the window...
Should window be covered, light material shades, open......or what effect could it have along with that left side alcove---------- attachment picture

attached also other sides for you to get a full idea of the room as it is
thanks

HowardMil 2nd October 2019 02:58 PM

Hi Avare:
Being I can’t put up an exact “ movable” drywall PANEL—- I’m thinking of trying this:
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/s...SABEgK-OPD_BwE

I’ve put in temporary empty cd racks into the alcove with some absorption moving blankets racked up behind the racks and have helped about 90- 95%.
Of course the other side is drywall.
What’s the better option: the above linked product or cd/bookshelves??
Thanks
Howard
Y

johannburkard 7th October 2019 08:23 PM

Your room still looks very bare and your speakers also seem to be sitting fairly low -- is the acoustical center at your ear level?

Apart from that, we usually measure rooms here before experimenting because measurements will tell you what treatment you'll need where (to some extent). :) Use Room EQ Wizard with an omni microphone.

artsci2 8th October 2019 03:11 PM

Google search "corner reflector" and look at your room for such things. Corner reflectors are drastically reduced in effectiveness if one or more of the surfaces adsorb the wave. That might inspire you to completely cover the front and back walls with adsorber in addition to the first reflection points on the side walls and ceiling.

Soundman2020 9th October 2019 06:37 AM

Quote:

Google search "corner reflector"
Why would you want an acoustic reflector in a room corner?

- Stuart -

artsci2 9th October 2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundman2020 (Post 14254761)
Why would you want an acoustic reflector in a room corner?

- Stuart -

You mis-read my post. I mentioned corner reflectors because I wanted him to realize he has lots of corner reflectors in his room and that they should have at least one of the surfaces treated to stop the corner reflector behavior.

Soundman2020 9th October 2019 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artsci2 (Post 14254852)
You mis-read my post. I mentioned corner reflectors because I wanted him to realize he has lots of corner reflectors in his room and that they should have at least one of the surfaces treated to stop the corner reflector behavior.

I'm still not understanding what you are trying to say: he has nothing at all in his corners, as can be seen from the photos, and corners are not reflectors anyway. Rather, corners are the locations in the room where all modes terminate, and thus are the best location for deep bass trapping. Any corner will give you an overall 12dB boost in treatment effectiveness for modal issues (which is already 6 dB better than for a wall), and in the "tri-corners" (where three room boundaries meet) the boost is 18 dB, because any device placed there treats all three sets of modes at once.

By the way, I did google "corner reflectors" as you suggested, and found very little related to studio acoustics: I did find a lot of stuff regarding radar targets, antennas, optics, satellite calibration, even ultrasonics, but nothing for studios or small room acoustics.

The problems with echo that the OP has are related to the walls, not the corners. Walls produce several types of acoustic artifact that could be what he describes, but my bet would be on flutter echo, which is fairly easy to deal with. He will very likely also need bass trapping in several corners, for other reasons, but the "strong vocal harsh reverberated sound" that he describes is unlike to be coming from the corners. It might also be partly due to a room layout issue (not optimal locations of mic and singer in the room, not optimal location of wall treatment for that layout, etc.). There are several possibilities, but acoustic "corner reflections" would be low on my list of suspects.

- Stuart -