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-   -   Headphone mixes: playback vs overdubbing workflow (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/newbie-audio-engineering-production-question-zone/1274586-headphone-mixes-playback-vs-overdubbing-workflow.html)

rmedek 5th August 2019 06:53 PM

Headphone mixes: playback vs overdubbing workflow
 
I'm not technically a newbie but I feel like my headphone process is :)

I've got a Furman unit for headphones and PT 2019 (not HD) with a UA Apollo. To run headphones, I send pre-fader sends to the Apollo's outputs which are patched to the Furman inputs. All normal, right?

But—when overdubbing or fast tracking it's a pain in the rear. To listen to a mix, I have to turn on delay compensation, set hardware buffer to 1024, activate plugins. Then, if someone want to overdub, I'm manually deactivating plugins, setting the hardware buffer to 128, turning off delay compensation.

Is there a better way? Using UA's console isn't an option because it doesn't allow for "auto-input" style overdubbing; that is, listening to playback until PT is recording, then listening to the input.

What I highly prefer is to keep the "real" mix available while low latency feeds are sent to the Furman. Not sure if I can do this with a native PT.

Thanks for any advice!

rmedek 19th August 2019 05:17 PM

(Politely) paging all workflow experts. :)

Wayne 20th August 2019 05:25 AM

Perhaps if no one comes around...
https://uadforum.com/forum.php

rmedek 20th August 2019 05:47 AM

Thanks, Wayne. I imagine it's not really a UAD-specific question though, unless the Console has some specific "auto-input" style of monitoring I'm not aware of. There's a no/low latency "console" type of app used with almost every interface these days (MOTU's CueMix, RME's TotalMix, etc.) so I don't think my scenario is platform specific other than working through a DAW versus an analog console.

joeq 20th August 2019 07:03 AM

I am not sure if this is what you mean:

I use the UAD Console app for monitoring any live input channels. This is the lowest latency way of hearing the mics. If you need multiple mixes you can even make sends in the Console that go to the different headphone outs and I believe lines 7 and 8.

In Pro Tools, I use a free plug-in called MuteTone. It sits on any track that is currently being recorded. At the instant that that track goes into record, MuteTone mutes the Pro Tools side of the live track. It is basically "fools" Pro Tools into thinking there is a control surface attached and someone just muted that channel.

If it did not mute, I would hear an echo, because the Console is much less latent than Pro Tools and the computer. .

Mutetone becomes very useful when you are punching in. You want to hear the PT track in playback right up to the punch, but then you want it instantly muted so you are only listening to the Console on those live channels. I no longer need 4 hands.

The plug is a little fussy, if I drag the plug to move or copy it to another track, it crashes the DAW. I have to carefully un-insert it and reinsert it every time.

You also have to always remember to remove it or bypass it before you bounce, because it considers bouncing to be "recording". That means the track that has Mutetone on it - likely the track you just recorded, would get muted. Extremely frustrating when get home and find out that tonight's takes are the very things missing from the reference.


But in any case, I am not listening to my live mics "through" Pro Tools, and I don't have to grab the fader and pull it down when punching. The Console is faster than Pro Tools at even the lowest buffer setting.

rmedek 20th August 2019 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeq (Post 14158764)
In Pro Tools, I use a free plug-in called MuteTone. It sits on any track that is currently being recorded. At the instant that that track goes into record, MuteTone mutes the Pro Tools side of the live track. It is basically "fools" Pro Tools into thinking there is a control surface attached and someone just muted that channel.

Thank for the tip on MuteTone and the detailed description. I'm not sure at first read how I can get this to work with the Furman, but it's a solid starting point to experiment with. The big unknown for me with using the Console as a "console" to route audio for overdubs is how the ADC lines up with playback from Pro Tools and the monitored input channels. But I'll give it a go!

joeq 21st August 2019 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmedek (Post 14160070)
Thank for the tip on MuteTone and the detailed description. I'm not sure at first read how I can get this to work with the Furman, but it's a solid starting point to experiment with. The big unknown for me with using the Console as a "console" to route audio for overdubs is how the ADC lines up with playback from Pro Tools and the monitored input channels. But I'll give it a go!

Conceptually, the Console App kind of works like a hardware console, in the sense that it sits "in front of" your interface. The exception is that the already-recorded tracks in Pro Tools do not go through the console. They just go straight to your monitor and headphones.

Today I was dubbing some reel to reel tapes for a client and I was thinking 'boy this 80's music is full of that really short delay sound". Then I realized I had both the console and Pro Tools up in the monitor and I was hearing the latency difference.

Quote:

I'm not sure at first read how I can get this to work with the Furman,
My headphone distribution box sits in the rack just below the Apollo. I literally take a TRS patch cable from the first headphone jack in the Apollo and run it to the "Main In" of the headphone box. I use the second headphone jack for myself, unless there are musicians needing an independent mix. In which case HP 2 of the Apollo goes into another channel. .

My HP box has individual aux ins for each of four different channels. Also in the front. I can create a second mix using sends in the console and route it to that other Apollo headphone jack. And I think I can make two more mono mixes and send them out of line outputs 7 and 8, but I haven't tried that yet.

The way my HP box is set up, the main input goes to all 4 channels, and each channel has a separate Aux In as well.

Quetz 24th August 2019 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeq (Post 14158764)

In Pro Tools, I use a free plug-in called MuteTone. It sits on any track that is currently being recorded. At the instant that that track goes into record, MuteTone mutes the Pro Tools side of the live track. It is basically "fools" Pro Tools into thinking there is a control surface attached and someone just muted that channel.

Mutetone becomes very useful when you are punching in. You want to hear the PT track in playback right up to the punch, but then you want it instantly muted so you are only listening to the Console on those live channels. I no longer need 4 hands.

This is pretty unhelpful in terms of the thread I guess but in PT there's no option to monitor 'tape style'?
Is this not a pretty important recording option?

In Studio One you can choose tape style monitoring where monitoring a track mutes playback.
If you also tick the 'Audio Track Monitoring follows Record' checkbox, you've got automatic track muting as soon as you punch in.

rmedek 25th August 2019 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quetz (Post 14165216)
This is pretty unhelpful in terms of the thread I guess but in PT there's no option to monitor 'tape style'?

There is an option to monitor "tape style" ("auto input monitoring," in PT).

The issue is when trying to monitor inputs with no/low latency by using an interface's software console (to monitor input *before* it hits Pro Tools). MuteTone is a workaround to emulate auto-input monitoring while monitoring playback off of Pro Tools and input off of the virtual console.

Quetz 26th August 2019 12:42 AM

Ah, gotcha, of course, otherwise you'd hear it twice, yes the same issue would occur in S1 actually.