Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Music For Picture (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-for-picture/)
-   -   Your Opinion on Clear Wave Music (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-for-picture/1274050-your-opinion-clear-wave-music.html)

Battlegun 31st July 2019 05:21 PM

Your Opinion on Clear Wave Music
 
Hi everyone! I've been recently contacted by Clear Wave Music and here is their response,


"We sign music on a track by track basis. Any works that we do sign, need
to be exclusive to us. It is the standard 50/50 split between the writer
(you) and the publisher (us), on all PRS/performance royalties
generated. Also, a 50/50 split on any other money we can collect, i.e.
MCPS royalties or any other income we collect. We do not currently offer
advances, or payments for production costs.
As an MCPS registered music library, any music we sign is available for
use by the media industry in the UK at the rates set by the MCPS rate
card.



Does this look right to you? Do any of you have experience working with Clear Wave Music?

ohwell 31st July 2019 06:06 PM

They don't seem to have a US subpublisher according to their worldwide contacts page. I'd probably pass on this deal.

No up front, no US sub publisher... probably not going to make much in my experience.

Desire Inspires 31st July 2019 06:17 PM

Pass.

ehrenebbage 31st July 2019 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battlegun (Post 14125559)
Hi everyone! I've been recently contacted by Clear Wave Music and here is their response,


"We sign music on a track by track basis. Any works that we do sign, need
to be exclusive to us. It is the standard 50/50 split between the writer
(you) and the publisher (us), on all PRS/performance royalties
generated. Also, a 50/50 split on any other money we can collect, i.e.
MCPS royalties or any other income we collect. We do not currently offer
advances, or payments for production costs.
As an MCPS registered music library, any music we sign is available for
use by the media industry in the UK at the rates set by the MCPS rate
card.



Does this look right to you? Do any of you have experience working with Clear Wave Music?

This deal looks fairly standard for European libraries. Smaller companies can do quite well for you, especially if you're splitting syncs. If you have an open line of communication, maybe talk to them about what their core clientele is and see if you can get a sense for their level of interest in your music, i.e. are they excited about it or just willing to take it to fill out their catalog?

ohwell 31st July 2019 06:58 PM

I should revise my previous comment.

No up front, no US subpublisher and BMG is their UK publisher. After my experience with labels that have that kind of profile, I would definitely not sign up.

JohnFulford 31st July 2019 07:07 PM

Sick of these no budget a$$ libraries.

Desire Inspires 31st July 2019 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehrenebbage (Post 14125735)
This deal looks fairly standard for European libraries. Smaller companies can do quite well for you, especially if you're splitting syncs.

The deal is dog$hit.

I can bet my left eye that they don’t have the leverage or courage to charge decent sync fees.

A one-off $1,000 fee that you have to split with the library isn’t going to make up for the hundred other times they do a blanket license and leave you with nothing.

ehrenebbage 31st July 2019 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFulford (Post 14125795)
Sick of these no budget a$$ libraries.

Are you aware of any libraries that pay up front and split syncs 50/50?

ehrenebbage 31st July 2019 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desire Inspires (Post 14125987)
The deal is dog$hit.

I can bet my left eye that they don’t have the leverage or courage to charge decent sync fees.

A one-off $1,000 fee that you have to split with the library isn’t going to make up for the hundred other times they do a blanket license and leave you with nothing.

Whatever your opinion of the terms, it's a UK library and this deal is fairly standard in Europe.

As for your opinion of earning potential, I've had a much different experience with small companies.

youngrichyrich 31st July 2019 09:57 PM

No budget - don't love it.

Jeff Hayat 31st July 2019 10:53 PM

If you are busy doing other things that are generating revenue, and if you feel contributing to this lib would take time away from that, then maybe think twice.

If not, and you have some free time, why not submit a bunch of tracks and see how it goes? Try to get say, 20 tracks into their cat, and check back in a year and see how your efforts panned out.

I understand other member's reservations, but if you aren't already earning a sh!t ton of money, and if you have the time to spend writing new tracks, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what might be a good source of revenue. Or maybe not - but you won't know unless you try.

Cheers.

Desire Inspires 31st July 2019 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 14126137)
If you are busy doing other things that are generating revenue, and if you feel contributing to this lib would take time away from that, then maybe think twice.

If not, and you have some free time, why not submit a bunch of tracks and see how it goes? Try to get say, 20 tracks into their cat, and check back in a year and see how your efforts panned out.

I understand other member's reservations, but if you aren't already earning a sh!t ton of money, and if you have the time to spend writing new tracks, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what might be a good source of revenue. Or maybe not - but you won't know unless you try.

Cheers.

It isn’t a good deal.

Really, you need a decent quantity of tracks. 50 would be good. And then you would need the company to be hawkish about getting placements. After that, you would need to continue working your day job until the sync income and backend royalties built up.

So after two or more years you would be able to make a fair assessment. Not worth it.

ohwell 31st July 2019 11:46 PM

Done this exact deal with other UK libraries and they were all a waste of time. The only ones that made decent income were the ones that paid up front. Just my 2c.

Edit: deleted my other messages. Everyone has to do what they think is best, so have at it if you wish.

ehrenebbage 31st July 2019 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desire Inspires (Post 14126198)
It isn’t a good deal.

Really, you need a decent quantity of tracks. 50 would be good. And then you would need the company to be hawkish about getting placements. After that, you would need to continue working your day job until the sync income and backend royalties built up.

So after two or more years you would be able to make a fair assessment. Not worth it.

If you think these terms are bad, as in worse than the typical terms, it might be helpful to describe what a good deal looks like.

Arcana 31st July 2019 11:56 PM

It's a fairly standard UK library deal.

As was mentioned, the lack of US distribution is not great from the composer's POV.

Personally, the fact that they approve on a track by track basis puts me off, but a friend of mine had quite a few tracks placed with them when they started and they accepted most of his tracks, so maybe it's not that bad after all.

ehrenebbage 1st August 2019 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohwell (Post 14126255)
Done this exact deal with other UK libraries and they were all a waste of time. The only ones that made decent income were the ones that paid up front. Just my 2c.

Edit: deleted my other messages. Everyone has to do what they think is best, so have at it if you wish.

Bummer that you deleted your response to me, but I get that you might rather steer clear.

Hope you don't mind if I paraphrase a bit because I think it would be helpful for folks to understand why this may or may not be a great situation.

Your point re: sub-publishers is totally solid. If a library isn't hustling much on their own, doesn't have global reach, and essentially just funnels music to a behemoth like BMG, composers are really just earning half of what they would if they'd gone directly to BMG in the first place. Maybe less.

Then again, a little company like this might have a niche or a small pool of amazing accounts...in my experience, a small number of tracks with the right small company can earn many times what a larger catalog with a large company might earn. It really depends on variables that are hard to gauge by glancing at their website.

Either way, the terms of this deal are pretty standard. It's the other stuff that will make the difference between good and bad, and it's hard to figure that out without having a conversation and taking a chance.

Desire Inspires 1st August 2019 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehrenebbage (Post 14126256)
If you think these terms are bad, as in worse than the typical terms, it might be helpful to describe what a good deal looks like.

Money upfront in exchange for copyright sounds good to me.

Trust me, I’ve signed many of the standard deals where I gave up copyright for no upfront money and 50% of sync revenue. I have never earned more than a few hundred bucks in sync fees from these deals.

The “standard” deal is a raw deal in today’s day and age. Terrible for the composer for a litany of reasons, the main one being that he/she loses rights to the music forever for a hand full of magic beans.

So if no upfront money can be given by the music library, the deal should not be a perpetual deal where the copyright is signed over. The deal should be an exclusive licensing deal. The composer keeps the copyright, but is not able to exploit the song while the song is signed by the music library.

After 2 to 5 years (5 years is a stretch), the composer can choose to extent the deal or have the song returned with all rights going back to the composer.

In summary: signing over copyright forever with no upfront money and 50% sync fees is dog$hit!

I don’t have a gripe with this particular company. I have a gripe with the “standard” deal.

ohwell 1st August 2019 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehrenebbage (Post 14126290)
Bummer that you deleted your response to me, but I get that you might rather steer clear.

Hope you don't mind if I paraphrase a bit because I think it would be helpful for folks to understand why this may or may not be a great situation.

Your point re: sub-publishers is totally solid. If a library isn't hustling much on their own, doesn't have global reach, and essentially just funnels music to a behemoth like BMG, composers are really just earning half of what they would if they'd gone directly to BMG in the first place. Maybe less.

Then again, a little company like this might have a niche or a small pool of amazing accounts...in my experience, a small number of tracks with the right small company can earn many times what a larger catalog with a large company might earn. It really depends on variables that are hard to gauge by glancing at their website.

Either way, the terms of this deal are pretty standard. It's the other stuff that will make the difference between good and bad, and it's hard to figure that out without having a conversation and taking a chance.

Yea, sorry about that. You seem like a decent guy from your forum posts (that was in my deleted message, not sure if you saw before it went) and basically yes, the exact terms of the contract are not bad. 50/50 on everything with no up front isn't the worst deal on paper that I've seen.

It's just the other factors mentioned previously which sink it completely for me!

Battlegun 1st August 2019 02:27 AM

Thank you for the responses. The website responded a little faster than I expected, which is what raised my red flag.

Can you guys provide a good checklist of what to look for in a good licensing deal? You mentioned up-front fees, a US sub-publisher, and split syncs. What else?

Jeff Hayat 1st August 2019 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battlegun (Post 14126461)
Thank you for the responses. The website responded a little faster than I expected, which is what raised my red flag.

Can you guys provide a good checklist of what to look for in a good licensing deal? You mentioned up-front fees, a US sub-publisher, and split syncs. What else?

Weekly shipments of ice cream.

Uploaded 1st August 2019 10:09 AM

Interesting timing as I've just signed my first album to Clear Wave. I'm actually due to send the files over to them today. There was another library interested in the same album but I went with this one mainly because they are more established and their client list looks ok. Obviously it's early days but communication's been good and Luke, their head of music, seems sensible.

So far as the deal is concerned I have limited experience but have seen writers agreements from a handful of UK libraries. This looks pretty standard.

Time will tell.

Desire Inspires 1st August 2019 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uploaded (Post 14126778)
Time will tell.

Indeed!

JohnFulford 1st August 2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehrenebbage (Post 14126003)
Are you aware of any libraries that pay up front and split syncs 50/50?

Of course!

Amber 1st August 2019 07:44 PM

My opinion on the MAJORITY of these types of libraries and my personal experience with them.

No investment, no incentive to make return on investment. Take ages to reply to emails, no urgency, take ages to release tracks/albums, often to please sub publishers and accommodate their release schedules. And sometimes rude/ungrateful/entitled. Can't even be bothered to meet you for a coffee.

When you go into a working relationship where you're the only asset the company doesn't have to pay for and most important asset at that, I don't see how you can be valued or feel valued.

I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. And I'm not talking about trailer music.

Also think of it like this. If you wanted to write for a major library, and they know you write for a label they might even sub publish at some point (that's what these labels often end up doing, or selling), why would they advance you to make an album? If you knew a plumber unblocked a toilet for a can of Coors Light, would you eventually go on to pay him £200?

Still at same time, if you're not getting much traction elsewhere, it's good to have something rolling in royalty wise and there are some exceptions I'm sure (well, I know there are, but even then, that's random/luck/circumstantial)

If you're doing it for nothing up front, start your own library.

Mrx 1st August 2019 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amber (Post 14127561)
If you're doing it for nothing up front, start your own library.


kfhkh The majority of my composer income comes from a non exclusive library. At least I have a chance of placing tracks elsewhere.

This whole thing of doing music for no upfront payment used to be good business and as Amber says there are exceptions but the price paid is a whole lot of trial and error.

In some ways I think I would recommend getting an additional job, maybe in a gigging band and then continue to get better and better until someone wants to pay.

drBill 1st August 2019 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desire Inspires (Post 14125987)
The deal is dog$hit.

Haha! I tend to agree, but you HAVE to weigh the pro's and con's of each deal individually.

Based on personal experience with writer / friends who are earning 6 figures from one company with one of the WORST deals I've ever seen on paper, I entered a deal with said company when I got the secret handshake and was invited in (sorry guys, it's a closed company).

I'm not "on staff" like they are, but over the last 15 years, this one entity alone has netted me 10X's the backend of all the rest of the libraries I'm signed with combined. And those include HUGE PMA libraries, and top tier level libraries who paid me a BUNCH up front. All of them combined.

Go figure. The dog$hit deal put out..... coogecooge

Judge wisely.

Jeff Hayat 2nd August 2019 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drBill (Post 14127945)
I entered a deal with said company when I got the secret handshake and was invited in (sorry guys, it's a closed company).

Hope you like seeing triple digits in your inbox! :lol:

Desire Inspires 2nd August 2019 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drBill (Post 14127945)
Haha! I tend to agree, but you HAVE to weigh the pro's and con's of each deal individually.

Based on personal experience with writer / friends who are earning 6 figures from one company with one of the WORST deals I've ever seen on paper, I entered a deal with said company when I got the secret handshake and was invited in (sorry guys, it's a closed company).

I'm not "on staff" like they are, but over the last 15 years, this one entity alone has netted me 10X's the backend of all the rest of the libraries I'm signed with combined. And those include HUGE PMA libraries, and top tier level libraries who paid me a BUNCH up front. All of them combined.

Go figure. The dog$hit deal put out..... coogecooge

Judge wisely.

Someone with your experience and expertise should be able to move your weight around to make deals like that happen with ease.

You are no anomaly. You are the real deal. If you ever take advantage of your full knowledge base and skill set, you will never have to work another day in your life again.

Please make it happen.

drBill 2nd August 2019 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desire Inspires (Post 14128091)
If you ever take advantage of your full knowledge base and skill set, you will never have to work another day in your life again.

Music is my destination, not $$$,$$$$ - and with that, I don't work a day in my life right now.

If $$$,$$$ becomes my destination, and I have to wrangle 70 insecure, crazed musicians to put out 1000 tracks a year - THAT becomes a job. And it's a job I would not appreciate.

Being so invested in the production music library business at this point in time is not such a good idea I think.... Much better ways to make money.

Desire Inspires 2nd August 2019 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drBill (Post 14129029)
Being so invested in the production music library business at this point in time is not such a good idea I think.... Much better ways to make money.

A lot better ways to make money!