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-   -   9700k or 9900 for Protools? Is Hyperthreading still a problem? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/avid-pro-tools/1272902-9700k-9900-protools-hyperthreading-still-problem.html)

Hammer v2 21st July 2019 12:45 AM

9700k or 9900 for Protools? Is Hyperthreading still a problem?
 
Howdy,

Having clients asking about moving up to 96k so will need to add some extra juice to my i5 8400 rig (at 44/48k the 8400 is an excellent chip BTW..)

Anyhoo...turns out I can simply take the 8400 out and shove a 9700 or a 9900 in. Yay.

Obviously the 9900 is the better overall chip but I have been reading conflicting reports of Hyper-threading in Protools. Can anyone fill me in here?

I need my rig (HD 12.5 native) to be rock solid. I'll trade stability over raw performance any day.

If Hyperthreading is now A OK I am happy to pony up for the i9 9900...if its not I'll just get the 9700k.

Thoughts?

dg27 25th July 2019 01:05 AM

I'm wondering exactly the same thing...hope someone weighs in.

RiF 22nd August 2019 08:37 PM

I have an i9-9900k in my Pro Tools computer and it works fine so far. Processing power galore!
The 9700k has the same single-core performance as the 9900k so there's no advantage of the 9700k over the 9900k.
If you ran into problems with hyper-threading on the 9900k you could just switch it off.
I'd say go for the 9900k because it's the more future proof CPU.

You said you'd trade stability over raw performance. The problem I see with hyperthreading is that the performance of a virtual core is not exactly predictable because the CPU decides which execution piplelines are assigned to which instruction in which thread "on the fly" and this could cause problems (overloading cores) under heavy load, I guess. But the whole turbo boost and thermal throttling stuff changes the raw CPU speed constantly anyways, even on non-hyperthreading CPUs. So every DAW should be able to deal with that.
Actually I have no idea how a DAW prevents a fully loaded core from suddenly overloading when the CPU decides to step down the frequency for that core because of thermal throttling or how it utilizes the extra juice on a core when it goes into turbo boost.

No final answer to your question but just my thoughts.

dg27 22nd August 2019 10:54 PM

How about in terms of temperature?

Based on what I've read the i7-9900k runs really hot.

Don't mean to hijack this thread by any means; as an fyi I'm stuck trying to decide whether to go for the 9900k or the 9700k (fewer threads) or opting for the 8700k instead, which I believe runs cooler than the others.

Pictus 23rd August 2019 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14163389)
How about in terms of temperature?

Based on what I've read the i7-9900k runs really hot.

Yes, needs TOP cooler like the Noctua NH-D15
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4vz...u-cooler-nhd15



Quote:

Don't mean to hijack this thread by any means; as an fyi I'm stuck trying to decide whether to go for the 9900k or the 9700k (fewer threads) or opting for the 8700k instead, which I believe runs cooler than the others.
DAWBench:
http://www.scanproaudio.info/2018/10...-lake-refresh/

https://techreport.com/review/34192/...-cpu-reviewed/
https://i.imgur.com/8lRyt0C.png

dg27 23rd August 2019 12:28 PM

Thanks, pictus, this is all very helpful.

What about using an aio, like the Corsair H115i PRO? Would that be sufficient?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/W6R...-cw-9060032-ww

I was hoping to use the Corsair 300R case (I need about 8.5" max width).

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pFV...sair-case-300r

As per pcpartpicker, that case is compatible with the NH-D15.

Based on the video (thanks so much for posting), the NHD-15 seems to be the best choice for me.

But I wonder whether for my purposes the i7-8700k might be a better overall option for me.

Pictus 23rd August 2019 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14164185)
Thanks, pictus, this is all very helpful.

What about using an aio, like the Corsair H115i PRO? Would that be sufficient?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/W6R...-cw-9060032-ww

I was hoping to use the Corsair 300R case (I need about 8.5" max width).

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pFV...sair-case-300r

As per pcpartpicker, that case is compatible with the NH-D15.

Based on the video (thanks so much for posting), the NHD-15 seems to be the best choice for me.

You are welcome, I prefer the Noctua NH-D15 and it fits the Corsair Carbide 300R if the RAM is not much tall.
https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-co...ail/nh-d15/faq
https://i.imgur.com/tgwbgIu.png

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...tab-tech-specs
https://i.imgur.com/q4tPigg.png
Quote:

But I wonder whether for my purposes the i7-8700k might be a better overall option for me.
IF you disable HT(hyper-threading) the CPU runs cooler.
IF you are going to disable HT, the 9700K is the better choice because
the 9700K is a 9900K with HT disabled and a bit smaller cache.

The 9700K/9900K(9th gen) have Meltdown and Foreshadow fixes in hardware, the 8700k(8th gen) have fixes in the firmware.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transi...ulnerabilities
https://i.imgur.com/f23ljdp.png

dg27 23rd August 2019 05:18 PM

Thanks, pictus for all the invaluable advice. I never would have thought about those hardware fixes that the i7-8700k dos not have. You make a strong case for the 9700k, which was my original first choice.

And according the pcpartpicker, the RAM I want (G.Skill RipJaws) is compatible with that case and the NH-D15.

Here's the build:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dg27/saved/#view=qsBYHx

I am using a builder because I have neither the time nor the setup to even think about doing the build myself (and the additional cost is negligible). I had mentioned the Corsair H115i PRO because that's a default option with the builder; I have to see if he can get the NH-D15.

Thanks so much again.

Pictus 23rd August 2019 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14164592)
Here's the build:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dg27/saved/#view=qsBYHx

Thanks so much again.

I am glad to help, the G.SKILL Ripjaws V is 42mm tall, change to the Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 32.5mm tall
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jhf...s4k16g4d32aese

https://i.imgur.com/1x1V4Cg.jpg

BTW, Window 10 Pro OEM key: sale price $15.27
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-page...dup916d,1.html

dg27 23rd August 2019 06:35 PM

Thanks!

Is there any reason to switch to the lower profile Crucial if the G.Skill will actually fit?

And thanks for the Win 10 Pro key link. I have three other machines to upgrade.

Pictus 23rd August 2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14164709)
Thanks!

Is there any reason to switch to the lower profile Crucial if the G.Skill will actually fit?

https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-co...l/nh-d15/ccomp
Caution: Please note that the fans of some tower coolers (especially larger models with 140mm fans, e.g. NH-D15
or NH-U14S TR4-SP3) may overhang the RAM slots and that this can cause compatibility issues if RAM modules
taller than 32mm are used. While the fans can be moved upwards to increase RAM clearance, this will increase
the total height of the cooler and thus requires additional clearance inside the chassis. As a rule of thumb, if the
fan overhangs the RAM, the maximum CPU cooler height specification of the case must be at least the size of the
fan plus the height of the RAM minus 7mm (accounting for the height of the socket and CPU). For example, if a
cooler uses a 140mm fan that overhangs the RAM and 46mm tall RAM modules are used, the max.
CPU cooler height specification should be at least 179mm (140+46-7=179).

You are welcome, but there is not enough clearance in the case.
Corsair 300R Maximum CPU Cooler height = 170mm
G.SKILL Ripjaws V height = 42mm

140+42-7 = 175

dg27 23rd August 2019 09:07 PM

More very critical and useful information--thanks so much.

I contacted the builder about the NH-D15 and they said this:

..."that is a good cooler. We carried it for about a year but it can’t take shipping. The Aluminum bends very easy and during shipping the cooler does not hold up."

wworried

It seems like if I were to stick with that case my options would be
  1. Noctua NH-U12S + 2X 140 mm exhausts on top + front and rear 120 mm fans
  2. Corsair H115i Pro + front and rear 120 mm fans

Pictus 24th August 2019 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14164951)
More very critical and useful information--thanks so much.

You are welcome.
Quote:

I contacted the builder about the NH-D15 and they said this:

..."that is a good cooler. We carried it for about a year but it can’t take shipping. The Aluminum bends very easy and during shipping the cooler does not hold up."

wworried

It seems like if I were to stick with that case my options would be
  1. Noctua NH-U12S + 2X 140 mm exhausts on top + front and rear 120 mm fans
  2. Corsair H115i Pro + front and rear 120 mm fans

Between the two I prefer the Corsair H115i Pro, it will create less strain
in the motherboard socket during the shipping.
That is why no NH-D15 for shipping machines, it is too heavy.

dg27 24th August 2019 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pictus (Post 14165248)
Between the two I prefer the Corsair H115i Pro, it will create less strain in the motherboard socket during the shipping.

I never would have even considered that. Thank you.

I only started reading about aio's the other day when someone suggested the 115i.

But reading comments and reviews gets confusing: Some say these are noisier than air cooling.

Since I do some live mic recording in the room, that is a consideration. Can't have a jet engine...

Pictus 24th August 2019 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14165254)
I never would have even considered that. Thank you.

I am glad to help.
Quote:

I only started reading about aio's the other day when someone suggested the 115i.

But reading comments and reviews gets confusing: Some say these are noisier than air cooling.
Set the 115i to quiet mode.
Quote:

Since I do some live mic recording in the room, that is a consideration. Can't have a jet engine...
Recommendation for a 100% silent PC here. cooge

dg27 24th August 2019 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pictus (Post 14165273)
Set the 115i to quiet mode.

Will include that on the "to do" list for the builder. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pictus (Post 14165273)
Recommendation for a 100% silent PC here. cooge

Thanks--will check this out.

Pictus 24th August 2019 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14164592)

This PSU
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dnh...-cp-9020188-na
is more silent
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...u,5568-11.html

dg27 24th August 2019 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pictus (Post 14165313)

Thanks.

Is it OK that it's Gold and not Platinum? I picked the other one because it was Platinum (and 850W).

Pictus 24th August 2019 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg27 (Post 14165323)
Thanks.

Is it OK that it's Gold and not Platinum? I picked the other one because it was Platinum (and 850W).

You are welcome, read the review and you will know the answer... jummpp

dg27 24th August 2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pictus (Post 14165515)
You are welcome, read the review and you will know the answer... jummpp

Thanks--I jumped the gun when I replied before I'd read the review because I thought Platinum automatically meant better when compared to Gold.

Thanks so much for all your help.