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Delitzsch 4th July 2019 10:45 PM

Affordable Guitar Cab Mic For Bedroom Recording?
 
I have a custom built oversized 1x12 Zilla cabinet with a Celestion Vintage 30 in it. The head is a Marshall DSL20.

I'm looking for a $100 or less (even better) microphone to record my guitar into my Steinberg audio interface. It will just be for solo projects that I upload and share on Soundcloud. However, I still want good quality.

I play mainly rock and some mainstream metal.

Thank you for any suggestions!

Scragend 4th July 2019 10:51 PM

Heil Audio PR 20 UT - like an SM57 but without the fizz. Great for male rock vocals too.

Delitzsch 5th July 2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scragend (Post 14077021)
Heil Audio PR 20 UT - like an SM57 but without the fizz. Great for male rock vocals too.

Thanks. kfhkh

Delitzsch 5th July 2019 02:46 PM

Anyone else got a suggestion?

CJ Mastering 5th July 2019 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delitzsch (Post 14078147)
Anyone else got a suggestion?

For under $100, an SM57.

I have no clue what 'fizz' as stated by the other poster and the SM57 was and still is a staple in recording guitar cabs, vocals, and a hammer. This mic has been used for over 3 decades in studios and every studio has at least 2 of them.

This mic has been used in more songs than any other mic. rockout

Scragend 5th July 2019 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering (Post 14078155)
For under $100, an SM57.

I have no clue what 'fizz' as stated by the other poster and the SM57 was and still is a staple in recording guitar cabs, vocals, and a hammer. This mic has been used for over 3 decades in studios and every studio has at least 2 of them.

This mic has been used in more songs than any other mic. rockout

Mic up a cab with a 57 - the go-to guitar cab mic and mic along side it with a PR-20. Listen to them both then you'll hear the fizz I'm talking about. In isolation the 57 sounds great, but the PR-20 has a lovely top end where the 57 sounds fizzy in comparison. Haven't touched my 57s for years. They're merely backups to the Heils.

sam guaiana 5th July 2019 08:19 PM

SM57. Such a no-brainer mic. Don't let anyone tell you that you need something more expensive.

JLast 5th July 2019 08:45 PM

The 57 has a bit of a bump around 5-6K that is usually considered to be a good thing to make the guitar sound cut, however if your guitar sound already has an excessive amount of top end bite boosting it further by using a 57 could get ugly.

When people complain about the sound of a 57 on a guitar cab as being fizzy or harsh I usually would say consider the source rather than blaming the mic.

Another "trick" to using a 57 is understanding that it sounds smoother when loaded properly. Many micpreamps are on the high side impedance wise (2-3K ohms) rather than the more old school 300-600 ohms which loads the 57 properly and makes it operate as originally intended.

DistortingJack 5th July 2019 09:29 PM

The upper-midrange of the SM57 either works or doesn't depending on your tone. A lot of the time it sounds just like a record.

Usually if you want a more natural and fat tone you'd get an M201. It is also more directional, so it will remove more of the crappy bedroom acoustics. I tried the PR-20 and the latter sounds good on first listen, but after a while, and especially comparing to other mics, you can hear certain frequencies in the upper midrange being dipped out due to I guess internal resonances or acoustic shadows.

Mario-C. 5th July 2019 09:36 PM

Lewitt MTP 440 DM, awesome mic on guitar cabs, much better than the usual 57 in my experience, I've never been a 57 fan.

Scragend 5th July 2019 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLast (Post 14078785)
The 57 has a bit of a bump around 5-6K that is usually considered to be a good thing to make the guitar sound cut, however if your guitar sound already has an excessive amount of top end bite boosting it further by using a 57 could get ugly.

When people complain about the sound of a 57 on a guitar cab as being fizzy or harsh I usually would say consider the source rather than blaming the mic.

Another "trick" to using a 57 is understanding that it sounds smoother when loaded properly. Many micpreamps are on the high side impedance wise (2-3K ohms) rather than the more old school 300-600 ohms which loads the 57 properly and makes it operate as originally intended.

So would the average bedroom guitarist on a budget have a pre-amp wih the "right" impedence to suit a 57? I suspect not, is a bedroom type amp at bedroom levels going to tend to sound thin? I suspect so. I close the case for the PR-20 your honour! :) in reality no-one is ever going to get fired putting a 57 in front of a guitar cab. A used one at the right price could easily be sold for what you paid for it so that's a low risk option.

Drumsound 5th July 2019 09:50 PM

I'm gonna go against the crowd and say anything but an SM57 (and its brothers). In that price range an sE V7 or V7x, or in the used market, something like an EV 468, Beyer M201 or M69 maybe.

microwave 5th July 2019 10:00 PM

The Lewitt MTP 440 DM is like a more hi fi SM57, imho better in every respect, none of the pinched sound and almost condenser like - without the problems that many condensers give on guitar cabs. Also a fantastic snare microphone.

andychamp 5th July 2019 10:05 PM

Metal, Marshall, V30s?
Start with one SM57, get a 2nd one as soon as you can afford it and start recording Fredman-style.
Later add an MD421 (Barresi) or a Royer121 if you can swing it.
Plenty of other options out there, but these three are standards for a reason.

CJ Mastering 6th July 2019 01:16 PM

Quote:

Mic up a cab with a 57 - the go-to guitar cab mic and mic along side it with a PR-20. Listen to them both then you'll hear the fizz I'm talking about.
I have probably used the sm57 over 100 times with guitar cabs and no fizz was ever recorded onto a track. I got great results with the SM57 on countless different guitar cabinets.
If you get fizz, then its not the MIC.

Look up these songs and listen to the guitars. No fizz and they were recorded with an SM57:

1. Lindsey Buckingham used it on some of his guitars for Fleetwood Mac - Like his Guitar solo on “Go Your Own Way”
2. Sufjan Stevens, “Greetings from Michigan”
3. Bon Iver, “For Emma, Forever Ago”
4. The Killers - Day and Age, guitarist Dave Kuening used SM57 on that song for his guitar
5. “Project 57” - Recorded an entire song, start to finish, using 57s on everything: drums, guitars, lead and backing vocals, and bass (a Rickenbacker 4001 pumped, oddly enough, into a Gibson Lab Series L5 solid–state amp). As is always the story with the 57, it may not cost much, but the sound and vibe it generated hardly sounded cheap.

There are just too many to list. No fizz though :)

JAT 6th July 2019 01:24 PM

I usually use a cheap mxl ribbon.

weave 6th July 2019 03:35 PM

Sennheiser E906 Super Cardiod

They have a three position presence roll off switch and are made to be dangled by cord in front of a cab, saving on not needing a mic stand.

On amazon new they are about $189. On eBay you can get them for $99 at times (factory repack - with original warranty - like right now).

FWIW

Karloff70 6th July 2019 04:21 PM

Sure Unidyne III 545 second hand. Like an sm57 without the fizz. gooof Except, if you're doing metal, you might want the fizz.

Here's the difference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYj-DaIqAA

Scragend 6th July 2019 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering (Post 14080035)
I have probably used the sm57 over 100 times with guitar cabs and no fizz was ever recorded onto a track. I got great results with the SM57 on countless different guitar cabinets.
If you get fizz, then its not the MIC.

Look up these songs and listen to the guitars. No fizz and they were recorded with an SM57:

1. Lindsey Buckingham used it on some of his guitars for Fleetwood Mac - Like his Guitar solo on “Go Your Own Way”
2. Sufjan Stevens, “Greetings from Michigan”
3. Bon Iver, “For Emma, Forever Ago”
4. The Killers - Day and Age, guitarist Dave Kuening used SM57 on that song for his guitar
5. “Project 57” - Recorded an entire song, start to finish, using 57s on everything: drums, guitars, lead and backing vocals, and bass (a Rickenbacker 4001 pumped, oddly enough, into a Gibson Lab Series L5 solid–state amp). As is always the story with the 57, it may not cost much, but the sound and vibe it generated hardly sounded cheap.

There are just too many to list. No fizz though :)

I think you're missing my point an I'm fully aware of the almost ubiquitous use of the 57 in the industry. I'm not saying 57s are fizzy, I just prefer the more refined sound of the PR-20 in the sort of application the OP suggests they'll be using it in.

Side by side on every source I've tried in a low-volume home-studio environment, I prefer the PR-20 - in comparison (at home studio volumes) the 57 sounded like it had a fizz to it. I also think the PR-20 is a better (male) vocal mic - since the OP on a tight budget he's getting a decent vocal option for his buck. The 57 is also a killer snare mic - but is that what you need in your bedroom? :) Sure if you're recording a Marshall stack at full tilt, the upper mid bump of the 57 isn't going to hurt you because the sheer SPL will take the edge off the highs. But will will hurt a practice amp at bedroom volumes. Anyhow, any of these mics will do a decent job. I was just trying to suggest something that may be more suited to a bedroom-recordist with a small (or non-existant) mic locker. Yes, every studio needs a few 57s to add to their extensive mic lockers. That's not (I believe) what this thread is about.

CJ Mastering 6th July 2019 04:59 PM

Quote:

'm not saying 57s are fizzy,
But you did say it, these are your words i quoted below.
Quote:

Listen to them both then you'll hear the fizz I'm talking about. In isolation the 57 sounds great, but the PR-20 has a lovely top end where the 57 sounds fizzy in comparison.

Scragend 6th July 2019 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering (Post 14080308)
But you did say it, these are your words i quoted below.

But you also quoted my quote where I said in isolation the 57 sounded fine - was was just an A>B comparison I always prefered the PR-20:- "Listen to them both then you'll hear the fizz I'm talking about. In isolation the 57 sounds great, but the PR-20 has a lovely top end where the 57 sounds fizzy in comparison."

Again I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with a 57 - I'm suggesting a mic that IMHO given the OPs original stated intent (bedroom recording) that will give him a fuller sound.

thismercifulfate 6th July 2019 05:12 PM

“Fizz” is a result of lazy engineers, not the mic. Funny enough, it’s somewhat easier to place a guitar cab mic in a bedroom than a professional studio because you’re already on cans and in the same room. But you really have to put on headphones and while the guitarist is playing move the mic around the speaker, varying the distance from the center of the speaker and also the angle and LISTEN. Even a half inch movement can be dramatic. A lot of folks just ram a mic up to the grille and hit record. There’s more of a chance that you just placed it in the worst spot (often the center of the dust cap) than the sweet spot. A 57 seldom sounds good in the center, but a ribbon or condenser can sound ok there. And sometimes backing off the amp is the ticket, even if everyone seems to have their amp mics touching the grille. And my final tip is to turn on the flashlight on your phone and place it against the grille so you can actually see the speaker and your mic position relative to its center.

JLast 6th July 2019 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scragend (Post 14078966)
So would the average bedroom guitarist on a budget have a pre-amp wih the "right" impedence to suit a 57? I suspect not, is a bedroom type amp at bedroom levels going to tend to sound thin? I suspect so. I close the case for the PR-20 your honour! :) in reality no-one is ever going to get fired putting a 57 in front of a guitar cab. A used one at the right price could easily be sold for what you paid for it so that's a low risk option.

Yeah you're right, all the presidents of the United States have sounded thin and fizzy for the last 50 years because thats the mic that has been on the presidential podium every time a president has spoken for the last half a century.

If your 57 is thin and fizzy you have either dropped it really hard onto concrete several times or you dont know what you are doing using it.

A 57 even loaded into the wrong impedance sounds very good assuming the source isnt crap, if you want to make it even better getting it the correct load doesnt have to be all that difficult or all that expensive.

The ART MPA micpreamp has variable impedance and sounds quite good for around $200 used or $350 brand new and it is a two channel preamp.

You can buy an xlr barrel with a couple resistors in it for about $15-$20 that will get the correct load for your sm57 or you could even make them yourself cheaper if you can solder.

Yes there are tons of mics that will work for recording electric guitar but to say the 57 isnt suited for somebody recording in their bedroom is ridiculous. It's a studio and industry standard for 50 years for good reason, it's simply a great mic for not much cash.

Scragend 6th July 2019 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLast (Post 14080322)
Yeah you're right, all the presidents of the United States have sounded thin and fizzy for the last 50 years because thats the mic that has been on the presidential podium every time a president has spoken for the last half a century.

If your 57 is thin and fizzy you have either dropped it really hard onto concrete several times or you dont know what you are doing using it.

A 57 even loaded into the wrong impedance sounds very good assuming the source isnt crap, if you want to make it even better getting it the correct load doesnt have to be all that difficult or all that expensive.

The ART MPA micpreamp has variable impedance and sounds quite good for around $200 used or $350 brand new and it is a two channel preamp.

You can buy an xlr barrel with a couple resistors in it for about $15-$20 that will get the correct load for your sm57 or you could even make them yourself cheaper if you can solder.

Yes there are tons of mics that will work for recording electric guitar but to say the 57 isnt suited for somebody recording in their bedroom is ridiculous. It's a studio and industry standard for 50 years for good reason, it's simply a great mic for not much cash.

Sigh, my post you quoted was my attempt at humour. 57s are not fizzy or thin nor do they NOT suit the hobby recordist - I'm suggesting the PR-20 suits that application MORE in my experience. I've stated (and restated 'til I'm blue in the face) is I think in home/bedroom studio environments at lower than studio volumes IN COMPARISON the PR-20 sounds fuller, which is similar to saying IN COMPARISON the 57 sounds fizzy. I have two 57s and whilst they are not absolutely identical they both share the same characteristic in comparison to my three Heils.They have not been dropped or abused either. I've been playing with electronics as a hobby for over 45 years so yes I understand the concepts around impedance and how to correct it (were it necessary) but that's not the point of this thread. I also said early in the thread that any of these mics will do the job.

Brent Hahn 6th July 2019 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thismercifulfate (Post 14080319)
A lot of folks just ram a mic up to the grille and hit record. There’s more of a chance that you just placed it in the worst spot (often the center of the dust cap) than the sweet spot. A 57 seldom sounds good in the center...

It might help to remind ourselves that, behind that grille, the speaker is a cone. It's way closer to the grille at the edges than it is in the middle. The proximity effect only kicks in when the mic is in close proximity (duh), and with 57's and 58's that's a big deal.

andychamp 6th July 2019 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn (Post 14080411)
It might help to remind ourselves that, behind that grille, the speaker is a cone. It's way closer to the grille at the edges than it is in the middle. The proximity effect only kicks in when the mic is in close proximity (duh), and with 57's and 58's that's a big deal.

One of the reasons I‘ve come to appreciate mics like the RE10 or SM53 in that application is their practically inexistant proximity effect. I point them at the center of the speaker and just start changing the angle ´til it sounds good.
The varying mic-to-speaker distance has no effect on the tone, only the part of the cone the mic looks at (listens to).

Wayne 6th July 2019 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering (Post 14078155)
For under $100, an SM57.

I have no clue what 'fizz' as stated by the other poster and the SM57 was and still is a staple in recording guitar cabs, vocals, and a hammer. This mic has been used for over 3 decades in studios and every studio has at least 2 of them.

This mic has been used in more songs than any other mic. rockout

+1
And having it and both versions of the PR20 I hear their top boost being up quite a bit higher then 57s. (Into the 'fizz zone if you will.

Delitzsch 9th July 2019 01:50 AM

Well, after reading everyone's comments and watching YouTube videos, I actually went with a mic that no one recommended.

I scored a new Shure SM58 for $60.

Maybe I'll post a sound clip when it gets here. rockout

DistortingJack 9th July 2019 03:17 PM

Oh god.

Delitzsch 17th July 2019 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortingJack (Post 14085255)
Oh god.

What do you mean?