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-   -   Pete Rock - Return of the SP1200 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-and-production/1262765-pete-rock-return-sp1200.html)

Martel80 26th April 2019 11:22 PM

Pete Rock - Return of the SP1200
 
So I ordered the wax when it came out but im still waiting for it to arrive.

Good thing is that today it was released on all digital platform and I spent my day listening to it.

The traveling man track really caught my attention. You can hear the SP1200 aliasing so loudly...I was wondering if that bothered anyone.....or whats your point of view on it.

Personally, I really love it but wouldnt take a full album filled with that amount of aliasing.

The beat start at 31:39


Lotuz2019 27th April 2019 05:48 PM

Or The World Don't Stop at 9:33.

It can be cool, but you must be careful not to overdo it and make it a gimmick. With this album I get the feeling they wanted to emphasize the use of the SP. Back in the days the mixing engineers probably toned the aliasing down a bit.

Let's check out what Pete says about making this album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_JV3voBEo

skoolafish 27th April 2019 05:58 PM

zero experience with an sp1200 so forgive the dumb question...are you talking about that rattling paper sound behind the samples, almost sounds like a bad tweeter?

Lotuz2019 27th April 2019 06:29 PM

I guess you can describe it like that. :)

That's the trademark sound of the SP12 and SP1200. But it was often filtered to make it less obvious. Not in this digital era though. Now people (me too) can't seem to get enough of it. But Martel has got a point that it might be too much to hear it a whole album long.

atma 28th April 2019 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoolafish (Post 13949544)
zero experience with an sp1200 so forgive the dumb question...are you talking about that rattling paper sound behind the samples, almost sounds like a bad tweeter?

If you happen to have NI's Battery installed, there's an SP mode you can switch on (if you're curious). To get the actual effect, you have to detune a sample downwards, though. Because of it's limited memory, people would run their turntable at a higher speed when sampling into it, and then pitch the sample back down—in effect like using a lower sampling rate, but the SP has a very distinct way of interpolating samples that lends that incredibly specific sound.

jbuonacc 29th April 2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoolafish (Post 13949544)
zero experience with an sp1200 so forgive the dumb question...are you talking about that rattling paper sound behind the samples, almost sounds like a bad tweeter?

not really, that's just "vinyl noise" being emphasized in the sample.

i think this is a good example of "SP aliasing", right when the beat starts. that high-pitched whine:


Martel80 29th April 2019 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuonacc (Post 13953185)
not really, that's just "vinyl noise" being emphasized in the sample.

i think this is a good example of "SP aliasing", right when the beat starts. that high-pitched whine:


yep, thats even worst.

aaronsmith 30th April 2019 12:30 AM

what a great album, beats take me right back.

Lotuz2019 30th April 2019 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbuonacc (Post 13953185)
i think this is a good example of "SP aliasing", right when the beat starts. that high-pitched whine

https://youtu.be/fePFbwInnoM

BezowinZ 30th April 2019 05:52 PM

Drums through an SP can sound sweet! Percussive, stabby samples too. Otherwise it can bother me a bit if overdone.

Surprisingly, this instrumental release from PR isn't grabbing me. Too loopy maybe.

cjogo 30th April 2019 06:08 PM

I bought the SP1200 when it first hit the market ... :cop: and had individual outs . Was easy to add percussion on a mixdown with the larger buttons -- SMPTE or MIDI

DAH 1st May 2019 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezowinZ (Post 13954624)
Drums through an SP can sound sweet! Percussive, stabby samples too. Otherwise it can bother me a bit if overdone.

Surprisingly, this instrumental release from PR isn't grabbing me. Too loopy maybe.

Ditto. The same things were said in Petestrumentals and Soul Survivor, only better.

skoolafish 1st May 2019 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezowinZ (Post 13954624)
Drums through an SP can sound sweet! Percussive, stabby samples too. Otherwise it can bother me a bit if overdone.

Surprisingly, this instrumental release from PR isn't grabbing me. Too loopy maybe.

yea it’s super repetitive

atma 1st May 2019 06:14 PM

I think pretty much any 90s style hip-hop is ultra repetitive when it's instrumental, personally.

keefaz 1st May 2019 09:43 PM

I think beats were supposed to complement monster vocals back then while vocals complement monster beats today :D

Seriously, I find repetitive music done in a good way inspiring

jbuonacc 1st May 2019 10:28 PM

i'd almost rather hear instrumental versions of a lot of hip-hop stuff (in addition to the originals of course), even if it is "loopy". sometimes the lyrics just get old after a while.

peterpiper0815 2nd May 2019 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keefaz (Post 13957020)
I think beats were supposed to complement monster vocals back then while vocals complement monster beats today :D

Seriously, I find repetitive music done in a good way inspiring

+1
IMO a loop can be very powerful and depending on the vibe set someone in a medititive kind of mood.
I can hear this again and again....


peace

ctothej123 2nd May 2019 02:15 AM

I listen almost exclusively to instrumental hip hop these days. Dem beats! Got no problem with being too loopy as long as its a good loop

jbuonacc 2nd May 2019 02:46 AM


Fanu 3rd May 2019 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 (Post 13949528)
…they wanted to emphasize the use of the SP. Back in the days the mixing engineers probably toned the aliasing down a bit.

Those beats are from the 90s. It's not like he chose to emphasize that; it was his tool back then, and to fit all the samples in the memory, he had to use them in such way (sample high-pitched, then pitch down in the SP) that created the aliasing. In a way it wasn't a choice.

Also, I don't think back then engineers had complex tools to actually address the aliasing.

Lotuz2019 3rd May 2019 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fanu (Post 13960300)
Those beats are from the 90s.

I know, you can recognize Pete Rocks post The Main Ingredient style. Except for Death Becomes You these are probably just unused beats. Not intended for an instrumental album, but dope nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fanu (Post 13960300)
Also, I don't think back then engineers had complex tools to actually address the aliasing.

No, but they did lower down the high frequencies (EQ/LP filter) to make the aliasing become less obvious.

TRSC 11th June 2019 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma (Post 13956678)
I think pretty much any 90s style hip-hop is ultra repetitive when it's instrumental, personally.


Check out 'Mass Appeal" by Gang Starr. 1 bar loop from beginning to end...and it's dope-as-fcuk. Ask around

BezowinZ 11th June 2019 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma (Post 13956678)
I think pretty much any 90s style hip-hop is ultra repetitive when it's instrumental, personally.

I don’t recall Petestramentals, Surviving Elements, etc being as repetative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRSC (Post 14031562)
Check out 'Mass Appeal" by Gang Starr. 1 bar loop from beginning to end...and it's dope-as-fcuk. Ask around

Definitely as a song. Checked my Apple Music, Mass Appeal instrumental not on my Instrumental playlist. 5 others from Hard to Earn Instrumentals are.

atma 11th June 2019 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezowinZ (Post 14031813)
I don’t recall Petestramentals, Surviving Elements, etc being as repetative.

Definitely as a song. Checked my Apple Music, Mass Appeal instrumental not on my Instrumental playlist. 5 others from Hard to Earn Instrumentals are.

Well, there are definitely exceptions; I'm just saying in general. I mean, to be honest, even my beats have always tended to be pretty minimal—though the intention was always to leave space for a potential MC—I just have never really found the right person here yet. It's actually gotten me thinking that I want to start changing that aspect about my tracks and figure out a way to potentially add collaborative instrument players of different types to fill things out so the instrumental tracks can stand on their own.

cjogo 11th June 2019 04:30 AM

Never tried a loop -- since about 1990 .. :facepalm: Used the SP for mainly the pads ... all our early drum machines had such mini~pads to play--in comparison .

TRSC 11th June 2019 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezowinZ (Post 14031813)
I don’t recall Petestramentals, Surviving Elements, etc being as repetative.

Definitely as a song. Checked my Apple Music, Mass Appeal instrumental not on my Instrumental playlist. 5 others from Hard to Earn Instrumentals are.



kfhkh

Martel80 11th June 2019 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma (Post 14031873)
Well, there are definitely exceptions; I'm just saying in general. I mean, to be honest, even my beats have always tended to be pretty minimal—though the intention was always to leave space for a potential MC—I just have never really found the right person here yet. It's actually gotten me thinking that I want to start changing that aspect about my tracks and figure out a way to potentially add collaborative instrument players of different types to fill things out so the instrumental tracks can stand on their own.

You could end up doing both.
Think Bonobo or RJD2.
I'm in the exact same situation and sometime I just think about hiring a rapper of my choice for 4-5 different beats and building the rest as instrumentals only around thos 4-5 beats.




BezowinZ 11th June 2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atma (Post 14031873)
Well, there are definitely exceptions; I'm just saying in general. I mean, to be honest, even my beats have always tended to be pretty minimal—though the intention was always to leave space for a potential MC—I just have never really found the right person here yet. It's actually gotten me thinking that I want to start changing that aspect about my tracks and figure out a way to potentially add collaborative instrument players of different types to fill things out so the instrumental tracks can stand on their own.

Definitely exceptions. I don't think these being released so far after the fact is a coincidence. Those earlier releases stood on their own much better.

For me, it's not so much the minimalism. I can listen to a sparse instrumental with some change ups.

I used to play live guitar & bass on my tracks, but have been relying heavily on virtual instruments the last 1.5 years or so. Either way, I always want my instrumental to stand on it's own. I only work with 1 MC at the moment, but unless he says a track is too busy, we rock with it. On a few occasions I've scaled back a track a bit, and a couple of times we scrapped the collab because I went too far but liked the track as is.

But I'm more song writer/producer than beat maker/producer. I started this journey with a guitar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRSC (Post 14032283)


kfhkh

And just like when I was adding tracks to my playlist, I don't want to hear this for 3.5 minutes. With Guru on it, fire!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel80 (Post 14032376)
You could end up doing both.
Think Bonobo or RJD2.
I'm in the exact same situation and sometime I just think about hiring a rapper of my choice for 4-5 different beats and building the rest as instrumentals only around thos 4-5 beats.




I dig Bonobo and always wanted to witness a session.

Martel80 11th June 2019 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezowinZ (Post 14032614)
I dig Bonobo and always wanted to witness a session.

He work alone with old samplers , a juno and a wurti.

I always wanted to do a video of me doing a beat from scratch on my samplers but when I think about it, its freaking boring. Like 3 hours to make a sketch ....you have time to get extremely bored watching that sort of video, especially when you end up mixing while you sequence and edit then you take a smoke break....
Lol, when you think abut it, theres not much to see haha.

BezowinZ 11th June 2019 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martel80 (Post 14032740)
He work alone with old samplers , a juno and a wurti.

I always wanted to do a video of me doing a beat from scratch on my samplers but when I think about it, its freaking boring. Like 3 hours to make a sketch ....you have time to get extremely bored watching that sort of video, especially when you end up mixing while you sequence and edit then you take a smoke break....
Lol, when you think abut it, theres not much to see haha.

Yeah, not everyone's process is entertaining. I know mine isn't. My finger drumming is getting decent, but my keyboard skill is enough to come up with parts, teach them to myself & record versions that need editing.

It takes me some hours to put a sketch together as well. I admire folks who can put together a nice track fairly quickly.