Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Modular Mania - All Things Eurorack and Modular Synths/Effects (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/modular-mania-all-things-eurorack-and-modular-synths-effects/)
-   -   Eurorack breakout patch bay for Matrix Brute and Voyager (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/modular-mania-all-things-eurorack-and-modular-synths-effects/1226544-eurorack-breakout-patch-bay-matrix-brute-voyager.html)

Carl Freeland 9th August 2018 02:04 PM

Eurorack breakout patch bay for Matrix Brute and Voyager
 
3 Attachment(s)
So I saw a thread about somebody making a Bantam patchy to terminate all the non eurorack synth C/V stuff they had and it got me thinking.

At the moment I have a 48 way 1/4" patch bay to breakout all the C/V etc from my Moog Voyager and my Matrix Brute see pics.

Now I am thinking that I could make a Eurorack case and laser cut some acrylic panels fit connectors/cables to terminate both synths c/v stuff to make it possible to integrate with eurorack modules

Been having a search and cant see a generic Eurorack equivalent.

Anybody done this? I can see a market for owners of say a Matrix brute who have eurorack stuff they would like to tidily integrate.

Not being a Eurorack guy yet. Could you advise, is this a good/bad idea. Is there an off the shelf version of what I am talking about?

Derp 9th August 2018 09:32 PM

I think Addac makes one, but I'm too lazy to Google for sure. Besides, it's kinda expensive. I think your idea of just making your own panel and using minijacks is a good one. Euro uses the same CV as quarter inch, so it's literally just a matter of hooking up an adapter.

Carl Freeland 9th August 2018 10:02 PM

Encouragement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derp (Post 13462492)
I think Addac makes one, but I'm too lazy to Google for sure. Besides, it's kinda expensive. I think your idea of just making your own panel and using minijacks is a good one. Euro uses the same CV as quarter inch, so it's literally just a matter of hooking up an adapter.

Thanks for the encouragement Derp. I cant imagine a skiff with just a patch bay though :lol: slippery slope here I come...

Wow those prices! ADDAC911 | ADDAC System

I would need a couple too. You are right make my own.

RunnyKine 9th August 2018 11:34 PM

Any regular patchbay with a handful of adapters would be cheaper than the Addac, or if you'd rather not use a bunch of 1/4 to mini adapters you can solder up some mini jacks on a 1/4 patchbay instead, or whatever else. I suppose it depends upon whether or not you want/need some pairs to normal or half normal or not, which is really the only advantage (albeit a very useful one) that a typical 1/4 PB offers.

RunnyKine 9th August 2018 11:44 PM

Further, when you make or buy your eurorack case - just leave 1U or 2U for PBs...

3U for each row of eurorack, and 1U each for patchbays, right below or above your modules...

SKB makes a Mixer Case that is 10U on top and 2U on the front end, and it's cheap as far as rack cases go, and (I learned on Muff's) people stand them up on end so the 10U faces forward and the 2U is on top, so 10U is three 84hp rows for eurorack and a 1U remainder for a patchbay or whatever else you want.

You would, of course, need a Happy Endings kit per 3U eurorack row.

Peep this action:

SKB 1SKB-R104 | Sweetwater


https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/image/718889.jpg

Or something like:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/rack...rid_718891.jpg

Accent 10th August 2018 06:13 AM

Question on using a standard patchbay for audio AND CV...maybe this will be helpful to the OP or future travelers:

I have a Behringer PX3000 bay I use with my modular rig for audio, patching the bottom front row from from my modular into my interface. However, I’m using a Motu Ultralite MK4, which allows me to run CV out of my computer from Reaktor 6, etc to my modular. I already have the fancy Expert Sleepers cables to connect my interface to my modular, so I’m good there.

My question is: can I use the outputs from my Motu out to the top row of the Berry PB (connected with TRS cables) and use that for additional CV out from the computer with the PB fully normalled (and the fancy ES TRS to TS cables out from the top row of the bay to the modular), while simultaneously patching audio in from the modular to the interface via the bottom row of the bay? Logic suggests this should work, but it would be just my luck that something would be damaged so I haven’t risked it.

butter 10th August 2018 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accent (Post 13463103)
Question on using a standard patchbay for audio AND CV...maybe this will be helpful to the OP or future travelers:

I have a Behringer PX3000 bay I use with my modular rig for audio, patching the bottom front row from from my modular into my interface. However, I’m using a Motu Ultralite MK4, which allows me to run CV out of my computer from Reaktor 6, etc to my modular. I already have the fancy Expert Sleepers cables to connect my interface to my modular, so I’m good there.

My question is: can I use the outputs from my Motu out to the top row of the Berry PB (connected with TRS cables) and use that for additional CV out from the computer with the PB fully normalled (and the fancy ES TRS to TS cables out from the top row of the bay to the modular), while simultaneously patching audio in from the modular to the interface via the bottom row of the bay? Logic suggests this should work, but it would be just my luck that something would be damaged so I haven’t risked it.

I'm assuming when you talk of simultaneously you aren't talking about on the same patchbay "channels"! I don't have a px3000, but a lot of other patchbays I have are often grouped inside, often also halfway down the middle there is a clean break or kind of physical separation between the halves (my tascams are in little "units" of 4). I'd pop the case off to check, but what I'm getting at is that I'd lean towards keeping one side/group for CV and another for audio.

Not too sure about the rest of your setup, so not sure there's much call for any kind of normalling though. As its basically just accessing the back of your interface I'd keep it simple. Separating cv and audio horizontally will lead to less potential for accidents, so similarly I'd at least start with more of a "through" connection... think Behringer calls it "open". ie plugging outputs from your interface into both top and bottom on the back and get CV out from your interface on both top and bottom rightmost 2(?4?) patchbay channels for example.

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunnyKine (Post 13462699)
Any regular patchbay with a handful of adapters would be cheaper than the Addac, or if you'd rather not use a bunch of 1/4 to mini adapters you can solder up some mini jacks on a 1/4 patchbay instead, or whatever else. I suppose it depends upon whether or not you want/need some pairs to normal or half normal or not, which is really the only advantage (albeit a very useful one) that a typical 1/4 PB offers.

So I am already using a 48 way 1/4" bay but wanted to neatly integrate both the Voyager and Matrix Brute via breakout type patch bays in a Eurorack case. Also in what situations would I want either normal or half normal (synth/audio outs?)
Those ADDACs look very nice, like the dual i/o splitter stuff...

RunnyKine 10th August 2018 11:34 AM

Patchbays in general, and particularly ones that let you normal or half-normal on a per-pair basis - preferably with a front facing switch per pair, are probably the most unsung hero piece of kit in all of music gear.

Half-Normaling is like a Y cable where one side is always connected and you optionally plug into the other side any time you want to split the signal. Like: right before an effect unit, where the source signal comes in, and one side always forwards to the effect IN, and the other side let's you grab the source pre-effect and do something else with it in parallel, out to a different effect or whatever... where the action of plugging in the patch cable does *not* interrupt the original path... it's an optional AND circuit.

A Normaled version is an OR circuit... where the patch cable interrupts A and goes to B instead.

And with both Normal and Half Normal turned off, the Patchbay is just cable ends that don't go anywhere by default.

All of which are immensely useful in a studio situation, whether it's just a few pieces of gear or dozens. Most every professional studio in history is chocked full of lots of them, configured as needed based on what they find most convenient.

Sometimes it's just to "relocate" rear mounted jacks to a more easily accessible location, such as a rack mount EQ at the bottom of a big rack across the room.

The choices one makes in setting your Patchbay generally won't be obvious on day 1, and instead surface X-days/weeks/months later after you've undone and redone some patch a dozen times and want to make that more convenient.

And for the ~$200-500 one (and the associated cables) cost, as compared to the (often) thousands of dollars spent on the gear plugged into it, it's cheap cheap...

If someone wants to plug both CV and Audio signals into the same Patchbay but keep them easily separated, make sure the normal and half-normal are disabled and plug all of the CV along the top and all audio along the bottom row, or the inverse. There are many ways to do all this, it's just an example...

One thing to watch out for is how the sources behave when *they* have a cable plugged in (which in this case would go to a Patchbay), because each source will have its own plain/normal/half-normal behavior and sometimes you have to keep things plugged into the Patchbay but leave the cables hanging at the source end, so that the mere act of hooking up the source to the Patchbay doesn't interfere with your most common use case for that particular source.

Easier than it sounds, and super flexible. And once you're in the habit of imagining and making patches using a patchbay your options increase, as in the case of creative uses of parallel processing (much like the idea of a Wet/Dry knob or a DJ crossfader on steroids), say - source A goes to a Fuzz and an Overdrive and after all that you're fading between or blending clean/fuzz/OD as you please (or a thousand other examples).

RunnyKine 10th August 2018 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Freeland (Post 13463282)
So I am already using a 48 way 1/4" bay but wanted to neatly integrate both the Voyager and Matrix Brute via breakout type patch bays in a Eurorack case. Also in what situations would I want either normal or half normal (synth/audio outs?)
Those ADDACs look very nice, like the dual i/o splitter stuff...

If you have $50 or so to spare, just use the Patchbay you have and buy a bunch of 1/4 to Mini barrel adapters, and use those as needed. You can always make up some custom panel or solder mini jacks to your existing patchbay later if you want.

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 11:49 AM

19" Rack?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RunnyKine (Post 13463353)
If you have $50 or so to spare, just use the Patchbay you have and buy a bunch of 1/4 to Mini barrel adapters, and use those as needed. You can always make up some custom panel or solder mini jacks to your existing patchbay later if you want.

So I could put the 19" Rack patch bay into a Eurorack case somehow?

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 11:52 AM

Patch CV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RunnyKine (Post 13463349)
Patchbays in general, and particularly ones that let you normal or half-normal on a per-pair basis are probably the most unsung hero piece of kit in all of music gear.

Half-Normaling is like a Y cable where one side is always connected and you optionally plug into the other side any time you want to split the signal. Like: right before an effect unit, where the source signal comes in, and one side always forwards to the effect IN, and the other side let's you grab the source pre-effect and do something else with it in parallel, out to a different effect or whatever... where the action of plugging in the patch cable does *not* interrupt the original path... it an optional AND circuit.

A Normaled version is an OR circuit... where the patch cable interrupts A and goes to B instead.

And with both Normal and Half Normal turned off, the Patchbay is just cable ends that don't go anywhere by default.

All of which are immensely useful in a studio situation, whether it's just a few pieces of gear or dozens. Most every professional studio in history is chocked full of lots of them, configured as needed based on what they find most convenient.

Sometimes it's just to "relocate" rear mounted jacks to a more easily accessible location, such as a rack mount EQ at the bottom of a big rack across the room.

The choices one makes in setting your Patchbay generally won't be obvious on day 1, and instead surface X-days/weeks/months later after you've undone and redone some patch a dozen times and want to make that more convenient.

And for the ~$200-500 one (and the associated cables) cost, as compared to the (often) thousands of dollars spent on the gear plugged into it, it's cheap cheap...

If someone wants to plug both CV and Audio signals into the same Patchbay but keep them easily separated, make sure the normal and half-normal are disabled and plug all of the CV along the top and all audio along the bottom row, or the inverse. There are many ways to do all this, it's just an example...

One thing to watch out for is how the sources behave when *they* have a cable plugged in (which in this case would go to a Patchbay), because each source will have its own plain/normal/half-normal behavior and sometimes you have to keep things plugged into the Patchbay but leave the cables hanging at the source end, so that the mere act of hooking up the source to the Patchbay doesn't interfere with your most common use case for that particular source.

Easier than it sounds, and super flexible. And once you're in the habit of imagining and making patches using a patchbay your options increase, as is the case with creative uses of parallel processing (much like the idea of a Wet/Dry knob or a DJ crossfader on steroids).

Yeah I have huge amount of "audio" patch bays here configured in all manner of ways but actually was wondering in what situations to use normal or half normal when talking about C/Vs

RunnyKine 10th August 2018 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Freeland (Post 13463362)
Yeah I have huge amount of "audio" patch bays here configured in all manner of ways but actually was wondering in what situations to use normal or half normal when talking about C/Vs

(laughs at self)

right on. :)

In a CV sense, like using LFO-1's WaveformOut-B to typically modulate the PW of Osc-2, but every third patch also modulating FX-1's Wet/Dry CV in, and so on.

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 12:21 PM

Ahhhh I see
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RunnyKine (Post 13463383)
(laughs at self)

right on. :)

In a CV sense, like using LFO-1's WaveformOut-B to typically modulate the PW of Osc-2, but every third patch also modulating FX-1's Wet/Dry CV in, and so on.

Ahhhh I see thats really useful info thanks

oinkbanana 10th August 2018 12:22 PM

for my moog 351 breakout box I just put a bunch of mono 1/4" to 1/8" jack plugs in all the holes. cheap, efficient.

RunnyKine 10th August 2018 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Freeland (Post 13463386)
Ahhhh I see thats really useful info thanks

I keep notes and scribbled block-diagrams of common and useful paths and revisit my (graphpaper lined) notebook periodically, especially since it can take long periods to shake out what the defaults might even be.

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 12:28 PM

Agenda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RunnyKine (Post 13463390)
I keep notes and scribbled diagrams of common and useful paths and revisit my notebook periodically, especially since it can take long periods to shake out what the defaults might even be.

Yeah I can imagine, everybody has a different agenda. I myself have not much interest in modular "synths" more control processing function generating sampling cloud generating and FX for my existing synths.

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 12:39 PM

Done that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oinkbanana (Post 13463388)
for my moog 351 breakout box I just put a bunch of mono 1/4" to 1/8" jack plugs in all the holes. cheap, efficient.

Yeah done that. Want to integrate Voyager and Matrix Brute via patch bay in a Eurorack case for tidiness and ease of use.

Like this thing but for the other CV stuff coming from the Voyager and the Matrix Brute

Tone's Synth Projects and Products: VXP1 Voyager Output Expander for Eurorack

chrisso 10th August 2018 12:45 PM

There are combo 1/4" to mini-jack converter modules you can buy.
I had a friend make me a connector strip for my 19" rack with banana, 1/4" and mini-jack all connected together.
I definitely wouldn't go 'bantam'. It's just another format.

RunnyKine 10th August 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Freeland (Post 13463395)
Yeah I can imagine, everybody has a different agenda. I myself have not much interest in modular "synths" more control processing function generating sampling cloud generating and FX for my existing synths.

Cool.

It sounds like you're about 80% there anyway, but whatever suits you... Add another Filter or two to your Voyager, one extra Oscillator, and poof - there you are. :)

I'm out for the day, best of luck...

Carl Freeland 10th August 2018 01:47 PM

19" rack?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisso (Post 13463412)
There are combo 1/4" to mini-jack converter modules you can buy.
I had a friend make me a connector strip for my 19" rack with banana, 1/4" and mini-jack all connected together.
I definitely wouldn't go 'bantam'. It's just another format.

So can you put a 19" Rack patch bay in a Eurorack case? No def not bantam! I advised the poster not to do that, they are so hard to pull in/out anyway.

oinkbanana 11th August 2018 04:12 AM

for the voyager there's synovatron voyager expander

https://i.imgur.com/naarUyc.png

Synovatron VXP1 - Eurorack Module on ModularGrid

edit: just noticed this is exactly what you linked to. I didn't recognize the link 'tone project'///

chrisso 11th August 2018 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Freeland (Post 13463477)
So can you put a 19" Rack patch bay in a Eurorack case? No def not bantam! I advised the poster not to do that, they are so hard to pull in/out anyway.

No, in a 19” rackmount.

Carl Freeland 11th August 2018 11:54 AM

CV expander only
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oinkbanana (Post 13464585)
for the voyager there's synovatron voyager expander

https://i.imgur.com/naarUyc.png

Synovatron VXP1 - Eurorack Module on ModularGrid

edit: just noticed this is exactly what you linked to. I didn't recognize the link 'tone project'///

Yeah thats the breakout for the CV "expander" there are another 14 CV etc on the Voyager too!
I have the VX351 and the CP-251 already and can live with that. A breakout for the other CV would be useful too.

Idea for product.
All the CV gate audio etc from the Matrix Brute terminated on a Euroroack panel all nicely labelled. Comes with two cables. One is a a multicore with 1/8 jacks to a female DB25 connector, the other is attached to the breakout panel jack sockets with a male DB25 connector.
You could make a hole on the case for the male connector so it is available on the back of the case to connect to. This is so you can disconnect it to travel.

The goal is to terminate all the CV i/o from Voyager and Matrix Brute into a Eurorack case so everything is in one place.

Accent 12th August 2018 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butter (Post 13463269)
I'm assuming when you talk of simultaneously you aren't talking about on the same patchbay "channels"! I don't have a px3000, but a lot of other patchbays I have are often grouped inside, often also halfway down the middle there is a clean break or kind of physical separation between the halves (my tascams are in little "units" of 4). I'd pop the case off to check, but what I'm getting at is that I'd lean towards keeping one side/group for CV and another for audio.

Not too sure about the rest of your setup, so not sure there's much call for any kind of normalling though. As its basically just accessing the back of your interface I'd keep it simple. Separating cv and audio horizontally will lead to less potential for accidents, so similarly I'd at least start with more of a "through" connection... think Behringer calls it "open". ie plugging outputs from your interface into both top and bottom on the back and get CV out from your interface on both top and bottom rightmost 2(?4?) patchbay channels for example.

No, I am talking about on the same channels of the bay. So, output 1 of the Motu running CV from Reaktor to the back input of channel 1 of the bay and out to the modular, and audio from the modular into the bottom channel 1 input of the bay and out to the Motu. The connection at the top should break and not transmit CV down to the input going back to the audio in on the interface if it’s normalled...I think. Maybe it needs to be half-normalled as I’m thinking about it more, but that’s why I’m asking questions!

ADV 16th June 2019 11:09 PM

I know this is an old thread but I came across it as I'm thinking about buying a Matrixbrute. Here is a patch box I built a few years back to bring CV to and from my Minitaur,Minibrute Se, Analog Four & Beat Step Pro. It sat next to my eurorack and it worked out really well.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...25&oe=5D8D32F4

Carl Freeland 17th June 2019 09:40 AM

19" Patchbay
 
1 Attachment(s)
I ended up using 19" 1/4" pacth-bays. Works great.



Well the MxB 2 year overdue firmware is supposed to drop in the next week or so.
A really great sounding synth but could be epic in the future if this damm firmware finally turns up.


errr why the hell is my pic upside down? Its the right way up on my computer. : ?