Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   Remote Possibilities in Location Recording & Production (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/)
-   -   Trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music. (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-location-recording-amp-production/117422-trying-select-great-daw-editing-classical-music.html)

bove 3rd April 2007 05:57 AM

Trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music.
 
I'm trying to select a Great DAW for Editing classical music... and would love some advice.

I've been using ProTools, but I'd like some more robust crossfade options, and also the ability to work with my files at 96khz.

Sequoia looks like it has awesome Crossfades, with the four point system.

Pyramix looks like it has a similar system.


Unfortunately, the Sequoia price is too high for me at $3000.


Any other options I should consider?

Thanks!

fifthcircle 3rd April 2007 06:04 AM

Sequoia is IMO one of the best classical systems out there. Gonna be hard to beat for editing. I've looked elsewhere numerous times, but I keep with it for all my work. The quality of work that it allows you to do and the time it will save you on jobs will more than make up for the price over the length of ownership.

Other good DAWs include Pyramix, SADiE, Sonic Solutions... Soundblade from Sonic Studio looks pretty good, but is limited to 8 tracks. Pyramix also has a native version that may fit your needs. You may also find used older DAWs out there. I also know a number of classical guys that are using Wavelab for their editing as well, but you're pretty limited in the multi-channel realm.

Hope this isn't inappropriate, but I have an old Sonic Classic USP system for sale in the used section if you are looking for cheap. Been in a storage unit since I went to Sequoia several years back.

--Ben

NetworkAudio 3rd April 2007 06:06 AM

Good systems for classical:

SaDie
Samplitude
Pyramix
Sonoma

Pyramix and samplitude have low cost versions that run native.
The full blown versions of all of these are well over the $3000 price of Sequoia.

Old 24/96 Sadies show up used from thime to time.

Edit:It seems Ben types faster than me :)

d_fu 3rd April 2007 11:17 AM

+1 for Sequoia/Samplitude...

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaukholm (Post 1210925)
Pyramix and samplitude have low cost versions that run native.

There's no non-native version of Samplitude.

Sequoia Berlin 3rd April 2007 12:23 PM

Hi,

If you need to edit 2track material only and have time (because your workload is low and you have low rates, thus little mony only) Samplitude Master will be a fine tool for you. It starts at around 300$.

If you prefer fast working pace and have a workload and rates that for your living, an investment in Pyramix, Sonic, Sadie or Sequoia will be appropriate. 3k up shouldn't be less than an appropriate investment.

Cheers,

Sebastian

Killahurts 3rd April 2007 01:08 PM

I used to love Sonic for work like that back in the day...the crossfades were among the best in the business. I haven't used it in a while but I have a buddy that edits and masters opera/symphony stuff, and he says Sonic is still great. I guess it's called Sonic "Blade" now.

George Necola 3rd April 2007 01:29 PM

my friend who studies "Tonmeister" uses pyramix and Sequoia. this 4 point-cut thing is great for this stuff.

cheers

Sugarnutz 3rd April 2007 04:12 PM

You can also "Rent" Sampltude Pro for about $40/month if money is a problem.

Roger Starr 3rd April 2007 04:18 PM

Nuendo? A studio in Brussel, forgot the name, specialized in classical music uses it...

Regards,

Roger

NetworkAudio 3rd April 2007 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_fu (Post 1211155)
+1 for Sequoia/Samplitude...


There's no non-native version of Samplitude.

and hence my statement...... mezed

Don S 3rd April 2007 08:44 PM

Anotherkfhkh for Pyramix.
The native as of V5 is pretty stable and very friendly to classical music. The plugs that it comes with are very good. Excellent metering!

bove 4th April 2007 05:06 PM

Thanks for the awesome info everyone! It's so great to have helpful people around who know their stuff.

I'll try to document my decision making here, both to receive more advice, and for anyone else who may find this thread useful in the future.


At this point, I'm considering Pyramix and Sequoia. I'm wondering what the functional differences are between them, or how the editing experience will differ.

Has anyone here spent time with both systems?

My two main applications for the DAW will be:
1. Editing of high quality Stereo recordings. Editing only, recorded on another device, and when finished, exported to WAV files and sent to the mastering engineer.

2. Trimming, cleaning up, and burning to disc, Large WAV files (concert length) of live concerts (recorded by an external device). If this process is fast and easy, I'll be very happy.


The other DAWs of this quality for classical editing, like Sadie, are going to push the price much higher, so I'm ruling them out for now. I have not even really looked at the more expensive systems.


Pyramix has many options, each adding to the price. I will need 96khz sample rate capability, and to add that option the Media Bundle must be added. The Media Bundle also adds CD authoring and burning capabilities to the system.


Pyramix Native with Media Bundle and high sample rate option is $1843
Includes a 4 point crossfade editor, can handle high sample rates, and can suthor CDs.

Sequoia 9 is $2999


If anyone wants to chime in with info or things I should consider while weighing the options here, I would welcome your input!

Adebar 4th April 2007 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bove (Post 1213371)
Thanks for the awesome info everyone! It's so great to have helpful people around who know their stuff.

I'll try to document my decision making here, both to receive more advice, and for anyone else who may find this thread useful in the future.


At this point, I'm considering Pyramix and Sequoia. I'm wondering what the functional differences are between them, or how the editing experience will differ.

Has anyone here spent time with both systems?

My two main applications for the DAW will be:
1. Editing of high quality Stereo recordings. Editing only, recorded on another device, and when finished, exported to WAV files and sent to the mastering engineer.

2. Trimming, cleaning up, and burning to disc, Large WAV files (concert length) of live concerts (recorded by an external device). If this process is fast and easy, I'll be very happy.


The other DAWs of this quality for classical editing, like Sadie, are going to push the price much higher, so I'm ruling them out for now. I have not even really looked at the more expensive systems.


For editing only, trimming, cleaning up, export, creating DDP files and burning CDs I would recommend Sonic Studio PreMaster CD. You don´t need to buy the more expensive soundBlade. PMCD does all you need - with high quality too. It is about 395 €.
You can use PT hardware for monitoring, every other coro audio interface or also the build in audio of a Mac.

bove 4th April 2007 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adebar (Post 1213459)
For editing only, trimming, cleaning up, export, creating DDP files and burning CDs I would recommend Sonic Studio PreMaster CD. You don´t need to buy the more expensive soundBlade. PMCD does all you need - with high quality too. It is about 395 €.
You can use PT hardware for monitoring, every other coro audio interface or also the build in audio of a Mac.

Does this Sonic Studio product include a 4 point adjustable crossfade editor?

fifthcircle 4th April 2007 06:00 PM

Does this Sonic Studio product include a 4 point adjustable crossfade editor?

No...

As I mentioned before, I'm a huge Sequoia fan. As much as I've looked elsewhere, I haven't found anything that I like better. I haven't used the native version of Pyramix, but I have used the full version. My biggest gripe with it was the user interface.

I came from Sonic and use Sequoia so I can deal with a complex interface, but good God. Pyramix was a disaster. You can certainly do good edits with Pyramix. the fade editor is fine, but I prefered Sequoia's implementation of the 4-point cut a bit more. It has been awhile since I've edited on it, so I cannot put my finger on exactly what I didn't like, but I got into Sequoia doing quality editing on the first day. Certainly wasn't that way in Pyramix.

I'm also a one-stop shop for my clients. I do the recording/editing/mastering and deliver product. I need DDP which I don't believe is available in PMX native. Also, I need to be able to go as wide as 24 tracks for my work. Another thing that isn't going to happen in PMX native.

I think that either way, you'll do fine. Both have their good and bad points.

--Ben

NetworkAudio 4th April 2007 06:46 PM

I would also consider which plugins are included.
My impression from Ben is that sequoia has a very good convolution reverb and well as many other quite useful plugs.
I would lean towards the highest version of Samplitude (ca$1000) or sequoia if I were you.

d_fu 4th April 2007 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaukholm (Post 1211594)
and hence my statement...... mezed

The statement was "Pyramix and samplitude have low cost versions that run native."
Now the non-low-cost version of Pyramix is also non-native, whereas there is no non-native version of Sequoiatude... Therefore mentioning the two in one sentence this way is potentially confusing. No offence intended.

Don S 4th April 2007 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fifthcircle (Post 1213503)
Does this Sonic Studio product include a 4 point adjustable crossfade editor?

No...

As I mentioned before, I'm a huge Sequoia fan. As much as I've looked elsewhere, I haven't found anything that I like better. I haven't used the native version of Pyramix, but I have used the full version. My biggest gripe with it was the user interface.

I came from Sonic and use Sequoia so I can deal with a complex interface, but good God. Pyramix was a disaster. You can certainly do good edits with Pyramix. the fade editor is fine, but I prefered Sequoia's implementation of the 4-point cut a bit more. It has been awhile since I've edited on it, so I cannot put my finger on exactly what I didn't like, but I got into Sequoia doing quality editing on the first day. Certainly wasn't that way in Pyramix.

I'm also a one-stop shop for my clients. I do the recording/editing/mastering and deliver product. I need DDP which I don't believe is available in PMX native. Also, I need to be able to go as wide as 24 tracks for my work. Another thing that isn't going to happen in PMX native.

I think that either way, you'll do fine. Both have their good and bad points.

--Ben

Sequoia is easier and more flexible. Pyramix has a huge learning curve! Some things take twice the time and effort than other DAWS. Plus, customer support is very spotty here in the US. If you want the skinny, I would call Silas at Legacysound.net. There is a sort of "Pyamix support group" in the NYC area.
Personally, if you can afford it, go for sequioa or start with samplitude.

redddog 4th April 2007 07:46 PM

Just out of curiousity, what is it that makes Samplitude/Sequoia better for Classical applications than other DAWS?

I have Samp and I love it. I was just wondering why it's more suited to particular genres than others.

NetworkAudio 4th April 2007 07:49 PM

Classical music is generally very heavily edited so the crossfade engine is crucial.

bove 5th April 2007 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don S (Post 1213721)
Sequoia is easier and more flexible. Pyramix has a huge learning curve! Some things take twice the time and effort than other DAWS. Plus, customer support is very spotty here in the US. If you want the skinny, I would call Silas at Legacysound.net. There is a sort of "Pyamix support group" in the NYC area.
Personally, if you can afford it, go for sequioa or start with samplitude.

I'm not a huge fan of "spotty" support... now that I think of it, good support can be worth a lot of $$ (in time) to a user.

Can someone "in the know" describe the Sequoia customer support experience? Is it nice?

Sequoia Berlin 5th April 2007 08:39 AM

I suggest that you get on the Samplitude Forum, register and see yourself.

Cheers,

Sebastian

DGaines 5th April 2007 01:47 PM

Dear Bove:
I believe we spoke via email and on the phone the other day about Pyramix. In the past Pyramix support has been a bit hit or miss, but things have changed in the last year. I am always available for support and the Merging Technologies forum is extremely helpful to all users new or experienced.
Dennis

NetworkAudio 5th April 2007 03:00 PM

maybe you can convince your pyramix dealer to let you have a 2-4 week trial of the full blown native version.
That way you get to see for yourself.

Sequoia Berlin 6th April 2007 10:56 AM

Sequoia should be available for a test drive as well. Best you inquire directly at orangehillaudio.com (US Rep) or sequoiadigital.com (Excellent Turnkey systems and support)

Cheers,

Sebastian

fifthcircle 6th April 2007 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bove (Post 1214477)
I'm not a huge fan of "spotty" support... now that I think of it, good support can be worth a lot of $$ (in time) to a user.

Can someone "in the know" describe the Sequoia customer support experience? Is it nice?

Orange Hill Audio (and formerly the Synthax folks) offer support to their registered users. There is also a great forum where you'll get help with issues not only from other users (who are a rather helpful group) but also from members of the development team (including the leads on that team). Sebastian (Sequoia Berlin on this thread) is the former product specialist for Sequoia and is regularly on the board assisting users with questions. Lastly, while it is kind of a pain from the US, you can also call Magix in Germany directly for support if it comes to that...

There are plenty of options out there, but once you get up and running, you probably won't need a whole lot of support as the system is quite stable.

--Ben

classicalrecord 7th April 2007 07:45 AM

i love samplitude for classical editing... i've tried other programs and immediately ran as quickly as possible back to samp. i'm not entirely sure of the crossfade differences between samp and sequoia but i've always been happy the depth of the crossfade editor in samp. and the flexibility you have with object based editing really lends itself well to the classical work flow.... oh, and i don't think anyone has mentioned this-- you can drop cd track markers into the project and burn directly from there, something that saves me time every day when i have to toss in 25 track markers for a vocalist's recital.

Roland 7th April 2007 08:32 AM

I personally use Pyramix and can thoroughly recommend it. The initial learning curve is a little steep, however that is mostly due to it's power and flexibility. These day's you can get into it cheap using the native version. I did notice people talking about support, however I can honestly say that I haven't needed this myself in the last two years and there is an excellent user forum where almost all your questions can be answered with little difficulty and the factory is always on the end of the line should you need it.

Regards


Roland

bove 23rd April 2007 12:08 AM

Thank you to everyone for sharing your info and personal experiences with these programs. I really appreciate your input.

I decided to try both Pyramix and Sequoia, and decide which one to keep. They were both incredible, but Sequoia seemed to flow better for me and the way I work, and had a few features (which were important to me) that I felt were implemented smoother, so I went with Sequoia. It's working great so far!

The dealers I dealt with for both Pyramix and Sequoia were fantastic, and I'd highly recommend both as far as customer support, sales info, etc. Joel at Strassberg Associates in NY, and Tom at Orange Hill Audio were both incredibly helpful.

cohler 31st January 2020 04:42 AM

Classical Music Editing on REAPER, Source-Destination 4-pt editing
 
COHLER CLASSICAL is the classical music editing environment for REAPER.

Designed from the ground up exclusively for multitrack, track-group, source-destination editing of classical music and other acoustic music projects.

Pyramix, Pro Tools, Sequoia, or SADiE users who want a faster, more responsive, customized, and much less expensive solution, here's your answer!

Join the beta test now!