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-   -   Whats a good "character" sampler? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1165384-whats-good-quot-character-quot-sampler.html)

Huye 19th July 2017 12:25 PM

Whats a good "character" sampler?
 
I'm looking for a good old school 12 bit sampler, mostly rack stuff. To bounce drums to and then back into renoise, whats the best and the most gritty sounding old school sampler out there? I don't know much about this old rack stuff so i really need some guidance here. What do you guys use?

3picentre 19th July 2017 12:26 PM

Old akais are probably most suited to what you want, the older the akai the cruncher the sound boing

Huye 19th July 2017 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3picentre (Post 12745609)
Old akais are probably most suited to what you want, the older the akai the cruncher the sound boing

the 900 and 950 seem pretty solid choices, i also hear that they have a killer filter.

ThorSouthshire 19th July 2017 12:30 PM

And if you want even more grit, get an Amiga :lol:

akai612 19th July 2017 12:31 PM

...theres only one Akai that has kind of crunchy sound. All others DONT...period! Emu emax is crunchy as it gets. Its basically the keyboard version of the SP1200. That particular emu line represents about the top of gritty sounding sampler technology...there's another contender however that one should not talk about...its the best kept secret among character sampler that are still affordable...then of course if money doesnt matter go fairlight and never look back...

3picentre 19th July 2017 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huye (Post 12745616)
the 900 and 950 seem pretty solid choices, i also hear that they have a killer filter.

The 900 series filter really is a thing of beauty but I wouldn't pay current prices for one

Huye 19th July 2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorSouthshire (Post 12745617)
And if you want even more grit, get an Amiga :lol:

I would love to get an amiga and start writing tunes on octamed !

John Difool 19th July 2017 12:34 PM

EMU EMAX 1

Akai 900/950

Huye 19th July 2017 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Difool (Post 12745624)
EMU EMAX 1

Akai 900/950

The emu emax 1 looks good, how much do you know about the asr 10? I know its not 12 bit but i hear it sounds amazing.

mickbenjamins 19th July 2017 12:39 PM

Junkie XL did a video on this recently:


Pag the LIVR 19th July 2017 01:40 PM

Tal Sampler
Redux + RC-20
Morgana

John Difool 19th July 2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huye (Post 12745628)
The emu emax 1 looks good, how much do you know about the asr 10? I know its not 12 bit but i hear it sounds amazing.

ASR 10 is one of the best samplers you can get, but it's a different thing as it's not 12 bit and dont have that analog filter that are sought after for the gritty drums.

Many beat makers wants both.

I think the cheapest hardware sampler for gritty drums is the Emax 1 keyboard. With a little luck and patience they can be found cheap if no upgrades have been made to them. But they are quite big.

breakinrecords 19th July 2017 01:50 PM

The Emax I does not do grit like the SP-12/1200s.

Also, look at the Mirage and the EPS.

The S900/950s aren't very gritty. They have something else going on when their inputs are clipped.

The ASR-10/88s definitely aren't gritty; they are a little warm, and they impart a very "radio-ready"/polished sound.

TNC 19th July 2017 02:02 PM

ASR-10 is gritty when you lower the pitch after sampling.

soundxplorer 19th July 2017 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakinrecords (Post 12745715)
The S900/950s aren't very gritty. They have something else going on when their inputs are clipped.

Same with the s612, their anti-aliasing filters are keeping the high end rolled off and smoothing out the rough edges. But the preamp adds a lot here. I did a test just recording through the preamp and it adds a bit of boost and compression, just makes things sound better in general. Pitch shifting on these models is also special - the D/A converters are actually changing their sample playback frequency to change pitch, instead of software processing as used on the s1000 and above.

Sounds in the file below were all recorded to the same peak level:
1 - clean audio
2 - s612 preamp only
3 - s612 sampled and played back


talentless 19th July 2017 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakinrecords (Post 12745715)

The S900/950s aren't very gritty. They have something else going on when their inputs are clipped.

I somewhat agree, when you choose different sample rates it also lowers the filter to hide aliasing, and when you pitch it doesn't have interpolation artifacts, its definitely got character I love it but it's not a freak show on the sound quality. everything comes out pretty smoothly. I bought both an S950 and an Emax I rack. the s950 is simply a great sound, but its the emax that has all this exciting sparkly unexpected weird noises and artifacts in the high range

seamonkey 19th July 2017 03:26 PM

I would also recommend the Emax 1 for gritty. It's possible to find them in rack form, but are harder to find than the keyboard equivilent.
The Emu line of samplers makes sampling incredibly easy.
I have both the Emax SE and Emu Emulator II keyboards and have sampled with them extensively.

As far as other suggestions given by members:

Mirage: a bear to sample and program with minimal sample time. Not for the inexperienced or faint of heart. I'll throw out one phrase for ya HEX CODE.

Both TAL1 and Morgana are software based samplers, not hardware.

mp3 19th July 2017 04:45 PM

EMAX would be my recommendation for street hooker (quick in-n-out) sampling. Its more colored (and colorful) than the S900/S950. And its filters are in a different league altogether. At least that was my opinion having the two side by side.

If you go ASR-10, please note that you have to work the machine to get a gritty sound out of it. Its not an instant dirt box like those above. It does sound amazing though. I will (probably :lol:) never part with mine, god willing.

Other choices would be the Ensoniq EPS (13 bit smack) and Mirage (8 bit grunge), the Sequential Prophet 2000 (12 bit with analog CEM filters) the Yamaha TX16W, and the Roland S-550 (12 bit). The S-550 is cool because it has a high quality input buffer (that's the analog signal path that the signal goes through before reaching the actual A/D converter chip) which has a built in limiter. So you can hit the input HARD for grunge, but if you go in at a reasonable level its kind of a hifi lofi sound if that makes sense... The S-550 filters are digital but they're seriously good...

My personal preference of the above options would be:
1. EMAX
2. S-550
3. S900 or S950
4. EPS


-------------------------------------------------------------------

FWIW, the EMAX and SP-1200 are similar architecturally and sound-wise, but nowhere near identical. They have some significant differences, but the biggest differences that contribute to their respective sound are:

1. the SP-1200 has some aliasing (the infamous 'ringing' sound people either love or hate) due to the way it transposes (interpolates) samples. The EMAX doesn't interpolate samples and doesn't have that SP type aliasing. The EMAX reclocks its 8 separate DACs to achieve transposition.

2. the EMAX uses the SSM 2047 (VCF/VCA) and implements them so that their cutoff frequency and resonance are fully adjustable via the UI. The SP-1200 uses the SSM 2044 (VCF) but the filter cutoff frequencies and resonances for each channel (that has a filter) are fixed in hardware.

Between the two, strictly as a sound source, my choice would be the EMAX.

A.I. Batule Chee 19th July 2017 04:49 PM

The ES-1 is cheap and adds a lot of grit to drum samples. jummpp

heckahecka 19th July 2017 05:02 PM

Machinedrum UW ain't bad.

Huye 19th July 2017 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckahecka (Post 12746047)
Machinedrum UW ain't bad.

Yea isn't it 12 bit? I'm probably gonna get a machinedrum anyway so might aswell get the UW one

xanderbeanz 19th July 2017 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huye (Post 12745622)
I would love to get an amiga and start writing tunes on octamed !

The great thing now is, if you buy say, an Amiga 500+ (they definitely have the 1MB of RAM, see) you can get a £80 card called the ACA500 which gives you a bit of a speed boost and (I think) an SD card slot, then you can download 1000's of ADF disk images from the Internet (basically rips of disk data) with all the software you want, Octamed, Deluxe Paint, Games, Samples & Mods, whatever, you never have to use another disk!

There's a cool additive/subtractive synth called Aegis Sonix which has drawable VCO and LFO shapes which I've used in the past on my A3000, not to mention Bars and Pipes, an awesome sequencer.

A real great treasure trove to explore!

breakinrecords 19th July 2017 05:42 PM

@ xanderbeanz : You also have great information and taste. Thanks. I'm thrilled that Amigas are still vastly under-appreciated.

Sound-wise, the SP-12/1200s don't even compare to the heft of the Mirage. There are software editors for it.

On the low-priced side, the Roland SP-303/404/505 series are nice (early Madlib), as SP-1200 alternatives. Also, the Zoom SampleTrak ST-224, the Casio RZ-1 and the Roland MS-1 are great for the money.

Huye 19th July 2017 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakinrecords (Post 12746149)
@ xanderbeanz : You also have great information and taste. Thanks. I'm thrilled that Amigas are still vastly under-appreciated.

Sound-wise, the SP-12/1200s don't even compare to the heft of the Mirage. There are software editors for it.

On the low-priced side, the Roland SP-303/404/505 series are nice (early Madlib), as SP-1200 alternatives. Also, the Zoom SampleTrak ST-224, the Casio RZ-1 and the Roland MS-1 are great for the money.

I hear good things about the sp samplers, might give one a shot.

mp3 19th July 2017 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breakinrecords (Post 12746149)

Sound-wise, the SP-12/1200s don't even compare to the heft of the Mirage. There are software editors for it.

Here's a useful comparison of the two. Not my video, for the record. edit: Skip to about 3:40 for the goods


djugel 19th July 2017 08:12 PM

Too bad the Zoom is crippled in a couple ways.

Main problems are annoying editing and a slightly bizarre interface

wagoo 20th July 2017 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorSouthshire (Post 12745617)
And if you want even more grit, get an Amiga :lol:

If we are going lofi, for fun, look what's been dragged out of the Commodore 64 these days through the SID chip..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIM4p0uL6Pw&t=7m28s

This is streaming data directly from floppy disk bumpkin

watari banzai 20th July 2017 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djugel (Post 12746436)
Too bad the Zoom is crippled in a couple ways.

Main problems are annoying editing* and a slightly bizarre interface

in addition, they use pita smart media cards, dont respond to velocity, cant sync for ****, and only play back in gate mode when triggered by external midi sources..none of which should matter too much as per op's requirements

i love mine. both of them :) next best thing to old rack samplers if you want grit imo. secret weapon stuff kfhkh

(*just found out that when editing sample start/end times via the jog wheel, you can move in smaller increments by keeping the 'source' pad pressed..makes onboard editing a lot less painful)

W-W-Int 20th July 2017 02:19 AM

old casio sk-1 or 100
casio fz-1 or 10m or 20m
ensoniq mirage
ensoniq eps (the original not 16)
e-mu emax
e-mu emax II
e-mu e-3 (most expensive thing i'm recommending but can do miracles with drums)
casio rz-1

Prof_Tea 20th July 2017 02:22 AM

Akai SO1 - so basic that it inspires.

I love mine - it just makes everything sound cool.

Fair warning -- It's the size of a 1980s desktop pc, but it gives you many features you need and none that you don't. Can be found for < $100.