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JayRolla 1st May 2017 01:47 PM

1,000 Tracks A Year?
 
Is it possible to do 1,000 tracks a year for big libraries? What would happen if you do 1,000 tracks a year for big libraries over the course of 5 years?

spiderman 1st May 2017 02:11 PM

I would expect that you would do better producing 100 HIGH QUALITY tracks in a year. 1000 tracks in a year is 3 per day... every day. That's going to be garbage in the quality department.... and the big libraries don't deal in low quality output.

JayRolla 1st May 2017 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 12599047)
I would expect that you would do better producing 100 HIGH QUALITY tracks in a year. 1000 tracks in a year is 3 per day... every day. That's going to be garbage in the quality department.... and the big libraries don't deal in low quality output.

These tracks would be high quality, which is why they would be wanted by big libraries.

spiderman 1st May 2017 02:51 PM

:facepalm:

JayRolla 1st May 2017 02:54 PM

I know somebody who is doing just that. It's definitely possible. I don't know why you face palmed. Open your mind up.

Producing for libraries like KillerTracks, WCPM, BMG, etc.

Mrx 1st May 2017 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599102)
These tracks would be high quality, which is why they would be wanted by big libraries.

Your idea of what is high quality may be different than what a library considers high quality.

It may be possible to write 1000 tracks in a year if you really go for it. Not so sure it's realistic to place all 1000 with a major library. In my experience you're doing good if a major pick 2-3 of your best tracks once in a while or commission a whole album.

Why don't you give it a go and report back in a year.

Audio Child 1st May 2017 03:46 PM

The best way to put this is to just keep making music and see where the journey goes! I can create 3 really good skeletons a day but one will take me all night to fully craft it to a finished state! Also consider writers block during your 1000 a year output!

JayRolla 1st May 2017 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrx (Post 12599195)
Your idea of what is high quality may be different than what a library considers high quality.

It may be possible to write 1000 tracks in a year if you really go for it. Not so sure it's realistic to place all 1000 with a major library. In my experience you're doing good if a major pick 2-3 of your best tracks once in a while or commission a whole album.

Why don't you give it a go and report back in a year.

I already know somebody doing it. He gets 1,000 tracks a year done, around 750 of which are for big libraries.

I wanted to know what would someone be making monetarily if he/she goes about doing this.

jazz4 1st May 2017 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599256)
I already know somebody doing it. He gets 1,000 tracks a year done, around 750 of which are for big libraries.

I wanted to know what would someone be making monetarily if he/she goes about doing this.

Ask the person you know who's doing it. Don't know how you'd put a figure on that.

Jeff Hayat 1st May 2017 04:32 PM

It's absolutely possible. But....

Recently, I finished a bunch of atmospheric cues. Around 2 min each. Very minimalistic, using sounds from libraries; not creating my own from scratch. I might have added some filtering, pitch shifting, distortion and other fx, but the sounds have already been created. Layered a bunch of stuff, added some strings, some piano, some Zebra synth here and there, did some automation to pull things in and out, and so on. in a long day (13-14 hrs), I was able to do 5 per day. So, even if I were to take a day off here and there, I could do those at a rate of about 1,750 per year.

I am about to start working on a bunch or orchestral/hybrid/drama/action cues. About 1:30 > 1:40 each. Will use some loops, sounds I have readily avail in my template, tricks and techniques that I use on these types of tracks all the time. In fact, many of these will be similar to other tracks I have written in this genre. But they will be diff enough. Of these, there is no way I would be able to do 1k per year; I can do 2 per day.

I just did a cue upon req from a lib I do work for. 2:45, and really, really dense in terms of arrangement - a ton of elements, layer upon layer of stuff... actually had to go outside my template to find some things I felt I needed... lots of producing. This one took me an entire 14 hr. day. Tracks like this, I would be able to do 300 per year at best.

So, yeah, it's possible to have a 1k per year output, but you need to:

1) Have the ability to work really fast, with a good, solid workflow already down pat
2) Have a really large, and complex template that you know really well, that has a ton of stuff already loaded and ready to go
3) Be writing stuff you are familiar and comfortable with
4) In most cases, use loops
5) Be free of distractions to remain focused
6) Not post on GS that often

Cheers.

lornemalvo 1st May 2017 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599116)
I know somebody who is doing just that.

Can you give us a name?

Thanks

Lorne

JayRolla 1st May 2017 04:55 PM

Right, thanks guys! Thinking out of the box when doing production music is very important in my eyes.

Etch-A-Sketch 1st May 2017 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599302)
Right, thanks guys! Thinking out of the box when doing production music is very important in my eyes.

Two comments...


First, it is totally possible. I know a couple people who do this... your friend might be one of the guys I know. (Small world and all!)

But, when doing 1000 high quality tracks per year, no man is an island. All the people I know doing this, are doing it with other people. They have a team of 10 to 30 other "friends" that they co-write with. In doing so the majority of the burden of production is off-loaded to the co-writers.

How much money will this make? It really depends on the styles and the catalogs. If he is pairing the right music with the right catalogs then AFTER 3 to 5 years he should be making anywhere from $70,000 to $200,000 a year for his cut. If he isn't pairing the right music with the right catalogs, then he might be making $10,000 to maybe around $40,000 a year from his cut.

The thing about production music is it's a slow burn. It takes a while for tracks to really get out into circulation... and then even after that it takes a while for them to start getting uses... and then after the uses it takes about a year for the PROs to pay for domestic uses... and then it also takes about 1 and 1/2 to 2 years to see money from international uses. So if someone goes from 0 to 1000 in a year... it will take them about a year to start seeing any sort of money trickle in... and then from year 2 to 3 it will grow and grow... and usually by year 5 it will be in full swing. And now if the person is adding 1000 tracks a year, every year... by 10 years it will be a very good amount of income every year. But then things start to taper off... so the first 1000 tracks will start to taper off after about 5 to 7 years... but usually by 10 years, you are hitting your maximum potential... and the only way to increase revenue after that point is to put out more music... so you'll need to increase production from 1000 to 2000.. then to 3000... and so on. Is that doable? Of course! As an example, me as a producer and engineer, I did 140 albums of production music in the last 12 months (that comes out to roughly 2800~3000 unique titles of music). So it is doable... but I am not writing all of this music. I'm just overseeing the production of all of it, engineering a good portion of it, and writing a very small portion of it. But that is my job, that is what I get hired to do. So I don't take a cut of the writer's share unless I am actually writing music. But it is doable. If I were writing, I could probably still do about 3000 cowrites a year if I really wanted to. But my compositional skills are not what I'm known for, so I don't get hired to compose. I get hired to produce and engineer. So that is what I do. rockout

The second comment is in regards to your "thinking outside the box". That really depends on what you mean by that.

The majority of the "cash cow" money-making tracks are the ones that are SUPER cliche in one style. So if you are saying you should "think outside the box" when it comes to composing or music production... I would suggest you reconsider that. If you are trying to be clever and create something unique... the chances of someone wanting to license it shrinks exponentially. Most people who use production music come to it because they temp'd with some famous music that is waaaayyy too expensive and they can't license it. The winner of the license is the one that is closest to the temp. So if you decide you want to do some Jazz/blues/punk/calypso free from exploratory music. It will never get licensed for when jazz is needed because it isn't straight up "jazz" enough... it won't get licensed for a blues use because it isn't "blues" enough. It won't get licensed for a punk use because it isn't "punk" enough... and so on... Maybe you do some killer electro industrial neoclassical funk. But when someone uses the GAP band or Parliament or James Brown... your "unique and outside the box" tracks aren't going to work as replacements.

Now yes... there are some times in production music to be experimental. And there are rare occasions where something completely unique, experimental and different gets used. But those licenses only happen rarely, like maybe once every 5 years or so. Whereas the replacements of well-known music happens once every 5 seconds or so...

If you are talking about thinking outside the box when it comes to business... I agree and simultaneously disagree. Being creative when it comes to making deals and negotiating can be a good thing. But it is a very, very, very sharp double edged sword. the reason being is you can be screwing yourself and leaving literally TONS of money on the table without knowing it as you try to "creatively" negotiate a deal and think outside the box.

There is also sustainability for yourself. A lot of the new startup music libraries in the last 5 to 10 years aren't looking at sustainability. They are just trying to create something that looks good on paper so they can sell and cash out. But that can blow up in your face and simultaneously kill the industry as a whole for a while (not forever, everything always bounces back eventually).

So... in "thinking outside the box" I strongly recommend you learn as much as you can about what's "in the box" first. Learn it forward and backwards and inside out... so that when you do start to go "outside" of it you aren't unknowingly screwing yourself and everyone that writes for/with you... and then you set the precedence that you are the guy that bends over for clients because you don't know what you are doing...and then you can never get out from under that.

JohnFulford 1st May 2017 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599116)
I know somebody who is doing just that. It's definitely possible. I don't know why you face palmed. Open your mind up.

Producing for libraries like KillerTracks, WCPM, BMG, etc.

It takes BMG a year just to listen to tracks they specifically asked for haha.

Mrx 1st May 2017 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFulford (Post 12599553)
It takes BMG a year just to listen to tracks they specifically asked for haha.

I was gonna say something similar. I have tracks with one publisher I submitted 2 years ago that are just coming out in the next month or so.

VitaEtMusica 1st May 2017 07:51 PM

I don't know of any production team that would hire a single composer to write 1,000 cues in a year. The problem is, if I see a guy that wants to kick out that much music, it's usually someone that wants an upfront money grab and has no thought for quality or what might actually get used.

If you're talking about a team of composers... and I'm talking 10-30 guys, then yeah, they might be able to do 1,000 pieces a year. But even then you'd have a very large amount of filler. I hate filler. And I hate vanilla, homogeneous, I have Komplete Ultimate/8dio/Heavyocity whatever too music.

If a person wants to make 1,000 pieces of music that required one finger per track, great. But generally speaking, that's not the type of music the "big" libraries are looking to buy.

drBill 1st May 2017 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12599016)
Is it possible to do 1,000 tracks a year for big libraries? What would happen if you do 1,000 tracks a year for big libraries over the course of 5 years?

I can write 3 tracks a day long, all month long - maybe even for a year. It's not incredibly hard if you're writing simple music, but.....

I can't write 3 tracks a day, ORCHESTRATE 3 tracks a day, MIX 3 tracks a day, do BROADCAST EDITS for 3 tracks a day, MASTERING for 3 tracks a day, keep my database updated for 3 tracks a day, do the metadata for 3 tracks a day, do research and then contact enough companies to place 3 tracks a day, and upload enough data to deliver 3 tracks a day.

One year I did somewhere around 350 tracks. It was an incredibly busy year. And a lot of the tracks were only "TV" good - not major library good. I didn't have a spare minute all year long. Not a single minute. And not enough sleep. And honestly, it wasn't my best creative effort year.

IMO, 1000 is not do-able without a team supporting your effort - assistant composer, orchestrator, mix engineer, assistant, mastering engineer, agent placing your material, etc.. And even then, you would not have a life.

Plus, to do this for FIVE years? Not a life I'd want to live. Not worth any amount of money.

JayRolla 1st May 2017 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch (Post 12599546)
Two comments...


First, it is totally possible. I know a couple people who do this... your friend might be one of the guys I know. (Small world and all!)

But, when doing 1000 high quality tracks per year, no man is an island. All the people I know doing this, are doing it with other people. They have a team of 10 to 30 other "friends" that they co-write with. In doing so the majority of the burden of production is off-loaded to the co-writers.

How much money will this make? It really depends on the styles and the catalogs. If he is pairing the right music with the right catalogs then AFTER 3 to 5 years he should be making anywhere from $70,000 to $200,000 a year for his cut. If he isn't pairing the right music with the right catalogs, then he might be making $10,000 to maybe around $40,000 a year from his cut.

The thing about production music is it's a slow burn. It takes a while for tracks to really get out into circulation... and then even after that it takes a while for them to start getting uses... and then after the uses it takes about a year for the PROs to pay for domestic uses... and then it also takes about 1 and 1/2 to 2 years to see money from international uses. So if someone goes from 0 to 1000 in a year... it will take them about a year to start seeing any sort of money trickle in... and then from year 2 to 3 it will grow and grow... and usually by year 5 it will be in full swing. And now if the person is adding 1000 tracks a year, every year... by 10 years it will be a very good amount of income every year. But then things start to taper off... so the first 1000 tracks will start to taper off after about 5 to 7 years... but usually by 10 years, you are hitting your maximum potential... and the only way to increase revenue after that point is to put out more music... so you'll need to increase production from 1000 to 2000.. then to 3000... and so on. Is that doable? Of course! As an example, me as a producer and engineer, I did 140 albums of production music in the last 12 months (that comes out to roughly 2800~3000 unique titles of music). So it is doable... but I am not writing all of this music. I'm just overseeing the production of all of it, engineering a good portion of it, and writing a very small portion of it. But that is my job, that is what I get hired to do. So I don't take a cut of the writer's share unless I am actually writing music. But it is doable. If I were writing, I could probably still do about 3000 cowrites a year if I really wanted to. But my compositional skills are not what I'm known for, so I don't get hired to compose. I get hired to produce and engineer. So that is what I do. rockout

The second comment is in regards to your "thinking outside the box". That really depends on what you mean by that.

The majority of the "cash cow" money-making tracks are the ones that are SUPER cliche in one style. So if you are saying you should "think outside the box" when it comes to composing or music production... I would suggest you reconsider that. If you are trying to be clever and create something unique... the chances of someone wanting to license it shrinks exponentially. Most people who use production music come to it because they temp'd with some famous music that is waaaayyy too expensive and they can't license it. The winner of the license is the one that is closest to the temp. So if you decide you want to do some Jazz/blues/punk/calypso free from exploratory music. It will never get licensed for when jazz is needed because it isn't straight up "jazz" enough... it won't get licensed for a blues use because it isn't "blues" enough. It won't get licensed for a punk use because it isn't "punk" enough... and so on... Maybe you do some killer electro industrial neoclassical funk. But when someone uses the GAP band or Parliament or James Brown... your "unique and outside the box" tracks aren't going to work as replacements.

Now yes... there are some times in production music to be experimental. And there are rare occasions where something completely unique, experimental and different gets used. But those licenses only happen rarely, like maybe once every 5 years or so. Whereas the replacements of well-known music happens once every 5 seconds or so...

If you are talking about thinking outside the box when it comes to business... I agree and simultaneously disagree. Being creative when it comes to making deals and negotiating can be a good thing. But it is a very, very, very sharp double edged sword. the reason being is you can be screwing yourself and leaving literally TONS of money on the table without knowing it as you try to "creatively" negotiate a deal and think outside the box.

There is also sustainability for yourself. A lot of the new startup music libraries in the last 5 to 10 years aren't looking at sustainability. They are just trying to create something that looks good on paper so they can sell and cash out. But that can blow up in your face and simultaneously kill the industry as a whole for a while (not forever, everything always bounces back eventually).

So... in "thinking outside the box" I strongly recommend you learn as much as you can about what's "in the box" first. Learn it forward and backwards and inside out... so that when you do start to go "outside" of it you aren't unknowingly screwing yourself and everyone that writes for/with you... and then you set the precedence that you are the guy that bends over for clients because you don't know what you are doing...and then you can never get out from under that.

Etch, thank you so much for that post. My friend has some co-writers that he works with for big PMA libraries.

JJAM 1st May 2017 10:05 PM

I've heard of someone who says they do this kind of number high quality tracks per year but he neglects to mention the ghost composers he has doing them, one of whom I directly know.

spiderman 1st May 2017 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJAM (Post 12599902)
I've heard of someone who says they do this kind of number high quality tracks per year but he neglects to mention the ghost composers he has doing them, one of whom I directly know.

All of whom are probably young guys working deferred under some smokescreen of BIG talk about placements and payments. Reminds me of a hustler I encountered a few years ago... wanted me to "join the team" for "great opportunities" --- the catch was ghost writing production music, sign this NDA, payments happen later....

There are lots of BIG TALK people who play the shell game of lie, cheat, and steal... they promise BIG money... huge placements with the best shows... incredible PRO payments... etc. etc. etc. They're all the same scam.

Jeff Hayat 1st May 2017 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJAM (Post 12599902)
I've heard of someone who says they do this kind of number high quality tracks per year but he neglects to mention the ghost composers he has doing them.....


There are reasons for that, and there is nothing wrong with it either - as long as the ghosts are compensated, and know ahead of time what they are getting themselves into.

Cheers.

JayRolla 1st May 2017 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 12599993)
All of whom are probably young guys working deferred under some smokescreen of BIG talk about placements and payments. Reminds me of a hustler I encountered a few years ago... wanted me to "join the team" for "great opportunities" --- the catch was ghost writing production music, sign this NDA, payments happen later....

There are lots of BIG TALK people who play the shell game of lie, cheat, and steal... they promise BIG money... huge placements with the best shows... incredible PRO payments... etc. etc. etc. They're all the same scam.

Maybe who you encountered is scammy. Specific, anecdotal situations you encounter don't generalize a group of people implementing the same strategy as the scammer.

You saying everybody who is implementing that strategy is scamming their co-writers is irresponsible.

JohnFulford 1st May 2017 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 12599993)
All of whom are probably young guys working deferred under some smokescreen of BIG talk about placements and payments. Reminds me of a hustler I encountered a few years ago... wanted me to "join the team" for "great opportunities" --- the catch was ghost writing production music, sign this NDA, payments happen later....

There are lots of BIG TALK people who play the shell game of lie, cheat, and steal... they promise BIG money... huge placements with the best shows... incredible PRO payments... etc. etc. etc. They're all the same scam.

"ALL of whom are PROBABLY"

drBill 1st May 2017 11:18 PM

OK. I'm going to quit slaking off and write 2000 tracks this year. Gotta keep up with the joneses......

JayRolla 1st May 2017 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drBill (Post 12600045)
OK. I'm going to quit slaking off and write 2000 tracks this year. Gotta keep up with the joneses......

You're not slacking. You're doing what everybody else is doing. That's perfectly fine! kfhkh

JJAM 1st May 2017 11:33 PM

I just did 2000 tracks today. You're all amateurs.

drBill 1st May 2017 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRolla (Post 12600052)
You're not slacking. You're doing what everybody else is doing. That's perfectly fine! kfhkh


You really think so? I hope so? I mean....that means a lot to me. I really want to make it in the music biz. :lol::lol:

Mike P 2nd May 2017 12:15 AM

In the past calendar year, I've composed, performed and produced 130 tracks for four different PMA libraries. The tracks were Active/Modern/80's rock tracks in which I played guitar, bass, keyboards and programmed the drums (which for me, is exhausting and time consuming), mixed, with 70 mastered (the other 60 were mastered by the library). Those 60 tracks needed five TV edits per track, whereas the rest were 1:30-2:00 minutes in duration with no edits necessary.

My situation might be different than most because I have two children under the age of 10 (including a preschooler) and with Winter Break (23 days), Spring Break (11 days), summer break (8 weeks), admin days, sick days and so on, 130 is definitely the top end of the limit in which can possibly do each year in that genre. This year, I've already produced 36 tracks and need another 64 before September 1st because the show I score on Discovery channel begins its second season in November.

I can't even imagine doing 1,000 tracks. That's insane.

spiderman 2nd May 2017 12:43 AM

Had to do it...


JayRolla 2nd May 2017 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderman (Post 12600207)
Had to do it...

Where'd you get that picture of me? Haha!

Oh, and my friend doesn't use Big Fish Audio loops by the way.