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-   -   Double tracking (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-kevin-killen/110945-double-tracking.html)

brendandwyer 22nd February 2007 03:54 PM

Double tracking
 
Hello Kevin! I want to say that your work with Tori is inspiring to say the least. She must be interesting to work with.

My question is about manually double tracked main vocals. Nowadays with plugins, lush reverb and delay effects, do you find artists/producers/engineers opting for manually double tracked main or backup vocals?

Thanks!

Kevin Killen 22nd February 2007 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendandwyer (Post 1143929)
Hello Kevin! I want to say that your work with Tori is inspiring to say the least. She must be interesting to work with.

My question is about manually double tracked main vocals. Nowadays with plugins, lush reverb and delay effects, do you find artists/producers/engineers opting for manually double tracked main or backup vocals?

Thanks!

Brendan,

To my ear, there is nothing quite like a real double tracked vocal. I have heard some excellent approximations using plug-ins and they are very believable. I guess it will come down to the artists ability to execute a double, time, budget etc etc. When done well, its a great effect.

Kevin

brendandwyer 22nd February 2007 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Killen (Post 1144278)
Brendan,

To my ear, there is nothing quite like a real double tracked vocal. I have heard some excellent approximations using plug-ins and they are very believable. I guess it will come down to the artists ability to execute a double, time, budget etc etc. When done well, its a great effect.

Kevin

i feel the same way. Are there any situations, other than the ones you mentioned above (time, skill, budget) where double tracking just isn't appropriate? I guess what i mean is, in your opinion, is it song dependant, or more dependant on the artist/&team's ability to do perform/pay for it.

I think its totally driver by the emotion of the lyric. For certain pop tunes its a great tool, but say for Peter Gabriel's "Don't Give Up" it would just dilute the message.

Kevin

bringmewater 24th February 2007 02:08 AM

How do you do a double track? What is the goal? Is it to be an exact duplicate of the first performance or what please? Thanks !

heppy

Kevin Killen 24th February 2007 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringmewater (Post 1146241)
How do you do a double track? What is the goal? Is it to be an exact duplicate of the first performance or what please? Thanks !

heppy


It can be done many ways. The easiest way is to listen to the original performance section by section and try to match inflection, tone and intent line by line. Another way is to do a bunch of additional passes and once you have a lead vocal that you are satisfied with see what lines of the other performances "double" the comp track. Its subjective as to what that standard is , but to my ear , it should thicken the original performance, add a slight chorusing and the timing and tone should be complimentary.

Some singers do not deviate very much from performance to performance and you will find that they create a natural double without any difficulty. Some singers really struggle with that, while some other singers are good at "shadowing or mimicing" another voice and therefore can sound like a double but infact its not the same two voices.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Kevin

Capsunica 24th February 2007 11:46 PM

Hello Maestro and hello to everyone!

Tell me please, how do you pan in the song the second take? Will you pan them from a scale of 1-100 at about? Would you pan them at an equal distance from the center? Or, would you pan them in the center, at different levels.
Could there be 3 recordings? Let's say 66L, C, and 66R? Will be bad?
Sorry for my english.
Thanks,
Capsunica

Kevin Killen 27th February 2007 07:01 AM

Like most of these things, you can place them anywhere, but to get the most effective double track, they need to be as close to the origianl as possible. You can of course pan them but the further out they become they more you will hear the slight discrepancies of the performances.

kevin

Kevin Killen 27th February 2007 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capsunica (Post 1146967)
Hello Maestro and hello to everyone!

Tell me please, how do you pan in the song the second take? Will you pan them from a scale of 1-100 at about? Would you pan them at an equal distance from the center? Or, would you pan them in the center, at different levels.
Could there be 3 recordings? Let's say 66L, C, and 66R? Will be bad?
Sorry for my english.
Thanks,
Capsunica

Like most of these things, you can place them anywhere, but to get the most effective double track, they need to be as close to the original as possible. You can of course pan them but the further out they become they more you will hear the slight discrepancies of the performances.

kevin

bobwarren 28th February 2007 06:24 PM

Hey Kevin,
I always try to double track a vocal manually but I've never gotten good results. The problem isn't the performance; it's the tone. I'll record a preformance until I get the right one. Then, I'll pan a little left the first vocal and monitor the live vocal panned a little right. This has proven to be very effective for matching the performance. Upon playback, the track has something going on frequency-wise that bothers me. There seems to be some phase shifts especially in the midgrange that I hate and isn't solved by hitting the phase button on one of the tracks. The problem seems more apparent when I pan both vocal tracks to the center. How do you mix, treat, or condition the two tracks to give you the full dynamic vocal track desired? Your input is greatly appreciated.

Kevin Killen 3rd March 2007 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobwarren (Post 1154011)
Hey Kevin,
I always try to double track a vocal manually but I've never gotten good results. The problem isn't the performance; it's the tone. I'll record a preformance until I get the right one. Then, I'll pan a little left the first vocal and monitor the live vocal panned a little right. This has proven to be very effective for matching the performance. Upon playback, the track has something going on frequency-wise that bothers me. There seems to be some phase shifts especially in the midgrange that I hate and isn't solved by hitting the phase button on one of the tracks. The problem seems more apparent when I pan both vocal tracks to the center. How do you mix, treat, or condition the two tracks to give you the full dynamic vocal track desired? Your input is greatly appreciated.

First I never use the double more that 50% level wise of the lead track. Second I may have the performer back off the mic a few inches or change the capsule position from cardiod to omni. I also do not necessarily have the performer try to generate the exact same tone but a complimentary tone when trying to execute a double as you describe. The way i described before was more of a "cheap mans double" effectively culling a double from other unused performances. I may also eq the two slightly differently, scouping out some lower mids to correct a mid range build up. But just the fact of doing a double will generate some phase issues, that is part of the doubling effect after all.

Hope this helps

Kevin