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-   -   SCSI drives for RADAR; (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1088377-scsi-drives-radar.html)

Thrip 29th May 2016 07:23 PM

SCSI drives for RADAR;
 
About three years ago I bought a refurbished Radar 24, (-modified with some Radar V parts).

The time for the inevitable SCSI audio drive replacement has come. -The failing one that's in there says 2005 on it, -so it's high time.

Taking the key & opening the Radar's BWAV Drive door -I got the following SCSI audio drive information; (I've tried to include what seemed important.)


FUJITSU Limited PO 4889 Aug15/2005

D33073/ N124 19F No 38 Sec 1

MODEL MAT 3073 NP 10: JW TES

Ultra 320 SCSI / 68 pin / LVD

PART NO. CA06350 -B160

+12V 1.20A / +5V 1.00A


-Is there any missing specs that I need when ordering a new SCSI drive for this Radar ?

I understand that I need a 68 pin, -what other specs must I observe re my selection in shopping ? -Like how many K, How many GB, -is there a set limit or range of SCSI hard drives sizes that will work in the Radar ?

-I need to know what specifically should I ask for on Craig's List or Google, etc. -as I'm not sure that I've got all of the essential information from off of the SCSI audio drive;

-Also does anyone know where in Canada I can buy these 68 pin SCSI drives?

Thanks, Thrip

David Spearritt 29th May 2016 10:06 PM

I would be looking at this sort of thing and using a modern SSD.
ACARD Products - IDE/SCSI/SATA RAID Storage Solutions

Andy Le Vien 30th May 2016 12:26 AM

SCSI Hard Drives:

RADAR®-24:

# Manufacturer Size Model
1 iZ Technology iSCSI 180 Gb Hitachi Deskstar p/n 07N9216
2 iZ Technology iSCSI 120 Gb Hitachi Deskstap/n 07N9210
3 iZ Technology iSCSI 80 Gb Hitachi Deskstarp/n 07N9210
4 Hitachi UltraStar 73 Gb IC35L073UWD210-0p/n 08k0332
5 Hitachi UltraStar 36 Gb IC35L036UWD210-0p/n 07N6340
6 Hitachi UltraStar 36 Gb IC35L036UWPR15-0p/n 07N4901
7 Hitachi UltraStar 36 Gb DDYS-T36950p/n 07N3200
8 Hitachi Ultrastar 18Gb IC35L018UWD210-0p/n 07N6350
9 Hitachi UltraStar 18 Gb DDYS-T18350p/n 07N3210
10 Hitachi UltraStar 18 Gb IC35L018UWD210-0
11 Seagate Barracuda 36 Gb ST336737LW
12 Seagate Barracuda 9 Gb ST39236LW
13 Seagate Cheetah 18 Gb ST318203LW
14 Seagate Cheetah 18 Gb ST318404LW
15 Seagate Cheetah 18 Gb ST318405LW
16 Seagate Cheetah 9 Gb ST39102LW
17 Seagate Cheetah 9 Gb ST39103LW
18 Seagate Cheetah 9 Gb ST39204LW
19 Seagate Cheetah 15k 18 Gb ST318451LW

iZ Support
[email protected]

Thrip 1st June 2016 03:50 PM

15,000 RPM for Radar SCSIs;
 
-I've recently been told that pretty well any 68 pin 15,000 RPM SCSI Hard Drive will do the trick for these Radars.

-Does anyone have an idea as to who makes the better quality SCSI Hard Drives?

Perhaps I would be able to find their Canadian distributor or retailer.

SteveGTR 2nd June 2016 06:01 AM

I would suggest looking into using a modern SATA drive controller card with SSD drives. You might need to reach out to IZ to see if there is a software build compatible with your hardware with has a modern SATA driver included, but it will be easy and perform better

Thrip 2nd June 2016 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveGTR (Post 11934602)
I would suggest looking into using a modern SATA drive controller card with SSD drives. You might need to reach out to IZ to see if there is a software build compatible with your hardware with has a modern SATA driver included, but it will be easy and perform better

A fellow at iZcorp has already spoke with me on the phone re the possibility of replacing the SCSI audio BWAV drive with a solid-state audio drive, -but he said that considering the addition cost of having it installed, it would be a much better move to go on to a new Radar Studio -or even a 2nd hand Radar 6.

dillweed 2nd June 2016 11:46 PM

I would suggest scoring a SCSI drive From Iz's list, pop it in and get back to recording for 10+ more years.

Rexy Rex 2nd June 2016 11:56 PM

Those ol' Hitachi drives are probably better than the rest of the computer.

And since Radar is mostly just used as a tape player, the hard drive should be the computer.

SKYSGUY 3rd June 2016 12:15 AM

When we had to replace drives in our Radar 24s, ebay was our friend. Plus there are a few built in utilities in the radar software that can do stress testing and other hard drive checks. We found a few good deals

Thrip 4th June 2016 05:55 PM

SCSI to SATA "bridging" technology;
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveGTR (Post 11934602)
I would suggest looking into using a modern SATA drive controller card with SSD drives. You might need to reach out to IZ to see if there is a software build compatible with your hardware with has a modern SATA driver included, but it will be easy and perform better

Tim Duffy has just contacted me from ACARD Technology;

"Our solution is the SCSI Bridge either ultra 160 or ultra 320 for 68 pin. You would use your own 2.5 inch media either HDD or SSD."

This appears to be a relatively "new" tech. solution. (-re SCSI audio drives),
-this SCSI drive "bridges" SCSI & SATA storage technology.

-I'm wondering whether this "SCSI Bridge ultra 320 for 68 pin, using ones own 2.5 inch media either HDD or SSD", would be especially good for the Radar 24 - in the sense that it may make it easier to acquire the advantages of a SATA storage system. (perhaps without the great expense of converting over to a solid state audio drive ?

Though this well may be a very inexpensive way to sort of up-date the Radar 24 -I'll most likely opt for the more tried & true iZcorp recommended SCSI drives.

iZcorp commented;

"This is technology that we have looked at. In fact we have our own SCSI to SATA bridge solution that was implemented in later RADAR V systems.
We have not tested with earlier systems but it would probably work.

It is, however, not something we can officially recommend or support.

There are several of my support customers who have “hot rodded” their RADAR systems to use solid state drives and the like. It appears a workable solution – once again, that we cannot recommend or support."

iZ Technology

Rexy Rex 4th June 2016 08:44 PM

Just keep in mind that those old magnetic hard drives do last longer than SSDs, and they even last longer then the newer magnetic hard drives.

I mean SteveGTR was absolutely right, but relatively, until you upgrade the whole thing, you could just do those old Hitachi's. I do love how they feel and pull-out just like the high-end computers used them back in the day. But Radar wasn't a supercomputer, nor did they make any sort of real hard contribution, yet it's on the right track.

For the future though, I know that we all like to go for a drive, but I'm gonna stop RAMin round so much. Maybe just make some of the memory do some of the work or somthing

SteveGTR 6th June 2016 12:51 AM

Great discussion, I alway get excited when there are intelligent commentaries and a thread doesn't spiral out into GS nonsense :)

I think using the older SCSI drives is totally fine and probably simple and cheap to do. I think the only limitation is going to be their storage capacity. If that meets your needs then you are in great shape sticking with them. Otherwise I would try to jump to a modern SSD. Also, the newer SSD technology is not subject to the wear issues of earlier SSD Drives and will last a long time with no issues

Thrip 10th June 2016 04:52 PM

In search of Hitachi prod. in Canada;
 
I've been having inordinate trouble in contacting & locating the Hitachi distributors retailers or resellers in Canada.

It seems that on top of that, these SCSI Hard Drives are getting a lot more difficult to find in Canada, (-especially any of the Hitachi or Seagate models found on the iZcorp Radar approved list).

(I have been told by a fellow at iZcorp that probably any 68-pin, 15,000 RPM SCSI Hard Drive will work, -but I would much prefer to find a model found upon that iZcorp Radar approved list.)

I have filled out a Hitachi web site inquiry submission, -they have sent the usual automated reply, -but no follow up.

From my own research on the web I have found information indicating that Bell Microproducts Canada & Synnex Canada are the two distributors of Hitachi Hard Drives in Canada.

-But similarly, the problem is contacting them. I managed to get a guy at Synnex in Winnipeg Manitoba -who doesn't seem to think that Synnex handles Hitachi Hard Drives at all. (?)

Mostly they have no email contact & all of the 1800 numbers give you nothing but a "leave your phone number & we'll call you back" message. -Right now I have no phone or fax, -I would need to be able to contact them by email.

Does anyone know an email contact for Hitachi Canada, Bell Microproducts Canada, or Synnex Canada ?

I don't want to be down without an audio drive to work with too long.

Andy Le Vien 11th June 2016 08:31 PM

Looking at the prices and (non) availability of drives at 300GB 68-Pin / 68pin SCSI Hard Drives (seagate maxtor hitachi fujitsu dell compaq), I'd be very tempted to try the Acard bridge.

Lumbergh 11th June 2016 09:13 PM

Im amazed SCSI drives are still available, NOS presumably? I'd hardly call using a host bridge adapter hot-rodding, more like good practice for old HD systems.

As David Spearritt suggested try the Acard stuff, specifically the ARS-2320 Ultra320 SCSI-to-SATA II Bridge Box for 2.5” SATA Hard Disk Drive, order it and a SATA/SSD drive from somewhere with a good returns policy just in case. Bet it works out cheaper than a SCSI drive for the capacity and you shouldn't have trouble finding spare drives for a good few years :)

Thrip 15th June 2016 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumbergh (Post 11957460)
Im amazed SCSI drives are still available, NOS presumably? I'd hardly call using a host bridge adapter hot-rodding, more like good practice for old HD systems.

As David Spearritt suggested try the Acard stuff, specifically the ARS-2320 Ultra320 SCSI-to-SATA II Bridge Box for 2.5” SATA Hard Disk Drive, order it and a SATA/SSD drive from somewhere with a good returns policy just in case. Bet it works out cheaper than a SCSI drive for the capacity and you shouldn't have trouble finding spare drives for a good few years :)

I've checked things out with ACARD Technology Inc. & they have two such SCSI/SATA Bridging Drives, (for 68-pin) -the "ARS-2320 Ultra320 SCSI-to-SATA II Bridge Box for 2.5” SATA Hard Disk Drive" that you recommended and the AEC-7730A which is the 68 pin Ultra 160MB/s, (the original AEC-7730 is EOL and it's replacement is the AEC-7730A -68 pin Ultra 160MB/s,)

iZcorp tells me that the 240 GB version of either the Kingston 300 series, or the Samsung Evo 850 series SSD are the most widely used by owners of the older Radars.

-My original 2005 failing Fujitsu SCSI drive says "Ultra 320 SCSI / 68 pin / LVD" on it, and Tim at Acard Tech. says, "The ARS-2320 is Ultra 320MB/s, which complements a Ultra 320 host."

The ARS-2320 Ultra 320MB/s and the AEC-7730A Ultra 160MB/s both sell for $249.00 USD, -are there significant differences or reasons why you recommend the ARS-2320 Ultra 320 over the AEC-7730A Ultra 160 ?

Lumbergh 15th June 2016 06:11 PM

Just because it looked like the RADAR's SCSI host is 320 and any modern drive should be at least as fast, and you don't want the 160 adapter in between to be a bottleneck.

And now because the guy from Acard recommended it too ;)

$250 must be RRP, Scan in London sells em for £150 inc tax and delivery ($210). I'd shop around!

mpc3kle 15th June 2016 07:27 PM

try a scsi2sd and a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter.

SCSI2SD - code/src wiki

Thrip 16th June 2016 04:35 PM

"The SCSI2SD does look interesting but....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mpc3kle (Post 11965304)
try a scsi2sd and a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter.

SCSI2SD - code/src wiki


I was quite impressed with the apparent scsi2sd /68 pin to 50 pin adapter possibilities and ran the idea by iZcorp Tech Support -who replied;

"The SCSI2SD does look interesting but SD cards have limitations as far as I know – both size and transfer speeds.
You need higher read/write speed for RADAR audio."

-and as well said;

"We haven’t tested nor will we test the ARS 2320 Ultra320
– however we expect it will work.
This type of solution is being used in many RADAR systems and I have it (AEC 7730) set up to use with Solid State drives in a RADAR V."