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CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 09:31 AM

Why does people dislike it when we post our music on social media?
 
Hi!

So I have been thinking about this for a while and also had a chat with my manager about it as he had the same impression.

Why is it that when you post pictures of funny cats or selfies on social media you get a good amount of likes, commenst and shares from your friends but then you post your music (or any kind of art you been working on) and you almost get more unfollows than likes. It makes you slightly bitter. Anyone experience the same thing? Any ideas on how to turn this around?

Uomo di Mele 23rd May 2016 10:00 AM

- Because music is very personal (not one person on this planet has exactly the same taste for music) -> give it time
- Pictures are easier to consume than only sound -> don't use soundcloud, but YouTube
- Jalousy -> try to be more modest OR just go as presumptuous as Jim Morission, whatever works for you, but do it 100% convincing
- You could have a completely different view of the way "the public" sees you -> as the Beach Boys (and Frank Black) sang "hang on to your ego and you're gonna lose the fight". Find out what your followers like about you and work with that.

And everybody loves funny cats, so make a video with funny cats or better, with puppies ;-)

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 10:13 AM

Thanks!

Just to be clear: I was referring to friends rather than fans. Getting no support from friends (that supports basically anything you do apart from art) can be though sometimes. Especially in a music industry where the business measure your success in numbers of clicks and likes.

A Radical Cut 23rd May 2016 10:45 AM

Well that's a bit strange if they actually unfollow you..
In this world it's give and take and sometimes you have to first give alot more before you receive something back.

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Radical Cut (Post 11914967)
Well that's a bit strange if they actually unfollow you..
In this world it's give and take and sometimes you have to first give alot more before you receive something back.

Yeah, I cam to this conclusion a couple of years ago and started going to all live performances I was invited to, sharing any release made by a friend of mine, liking, commeting and giving positive feedback but I very seldom get the same kind of support back.

GJ999x 23rd May 2016 10:53 AM

A lot of people experience this, I don't think we should expect support from anyone in particular, and once you're forcing or pressuring people to consume your music, the battle is probably lost.... just get it out there and have it be judged, so what.

I also know that on e.g. facebook, hardly any of your friends will actually see the post, don't think that all of them will, I think facebook doesn't even show it to most friends (unless you pay...)

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 10:56 AM

I'm not sure if you heard of the Scandinavian thing called Law of Jante (Jantelagen). It may very well have something to do with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

A Radical Cut 23rd May 2016 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11914975)
Yeah, I cam to this conclusion a couple of years ago and started going to all live performances I was invited to, sharing any release made by a friend of mine, liking, commeting and giving positive feedback but I very seldom get the same kind of support back.

hmm well either that friend simply does not care enough about your work (which does not make him/her a good friend) or perhaps you are seen as competition.

Do you and your friend have any music online?

Uomo di Mele 23rd May 2016 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11914923)
Thanks!

Just to be clear: I was referring to friends rather than fans. Getting no support from friends (that supports basically anything you do apart from art) can be though sometimes. Especially in a music industry where the business measure your success in numbers of clicks and likes.

From my own experience I can say that friends and family are much more judgmental. Some refuge to see me as a musician.
And some think the are entitled to say some really offensive things.
Someone really close started saying nice things about our music after years. And you know why, because she heard someone else saying nice things about us and our music. And I could give you a dozen of these examples.

Pichi 23rd May 2016 12:35 PM

Unfollows? Maybe your 'art' is a little creepy. :lol:

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Radical Cut (Post 11914994)
hmm well either that friend simply does not care enough about your work (which does not make him/her a good friend) or perhaps you are seen as competition.

Do you and your friend have any music online?

I have lots of things online. Got about 20 songs on streaming services and I also share some "mostly-for-fun" projects on Sound Cloud. Anyway, the "competition" part may be true among my music making friends because when I realized I had a hard time promoting my friends music out of jealousy I started to notice that and turn it over. I sometimes still get the jealous feeling, but I usually make a joke and comment something like "Great job, I'm really jealous".

But for friends that simply don't do anything but ordinary daily life (and there is nothing wrong with that, just so I don't give the impression of thinking I'm better because I create stuff) competition is not as likely as The Law of Jante (as I refuse to believe this is due to the quality of my music).

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uomo di Mele (Post 11914998)
From my own experience I can say that friends and family are much more judgmental. Some refuge to see me as a musician.
And some think the are entitled to say some really offensive things.
Someone really close started saying nice things about our music after years. And you know why, because she heard someone else saying nice things about us and our music. And I could give you a dozen of these examples.

That's a shame. But I still do believe that you gonna have deal with negative comments. In my case the problem is that friends just don't respond at all. It's my impression that people (friends, fans or whatever) will only support you are already doing good.

drethe5th 23rd May 2016 12:50 PM

The ones closest to you will not believe and support you until AFTER you have Made It !

You are too "normal" to them. They've watched your story for a long time. Its just you with those songs you write.....nothing special.
They expect to see tour vans, videos, shows, money etc..... like "Real" artists have. Without it, you just have a very passionate hobby.

Don't take it personal. If you make progress, they'll start to fall in line.

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drethe5th (Post 11915169)
The ones closest to you will not believe and support you until AFTER you have Made It !

You are too "normal" to them. They've watched your story for a long time. Its just you with those songs you write.....nothing special.
They expect to see tour vans, videos, shows, money etc..... like "Real" artists have. Without it, you just have a very passionate hobby.

Don't take it personal. If you make progress, they'll start to fall in line.

This might very well be true. My few closest friends do support me. The odd thing though is that people are capable of hitting "like" on cat pictures, selfies and stuff like that. But important stuff that you put a lot of effort into the seem to just ignore. And maybe I'm a bitter narcissist but I can hear them thinking "here he goes again annoying me with his music thinking he is something".

A Radical Cut 23rd May 2016 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11915185)
This might very well be true. My few closest friends do support me. The odd thing though is that people are capable of hitting "like" on cat pictures, selfies and stuff like that. But important stuff that you put a lot of effort into the seem to just ignore. And maybe I'm a bitter narcissist but I can hear them thinking "here he goes again annoying me with his music thinking he is something".

I'm very interested in seeing those cat pictures :lol:

On a serious note I don't know if that law of jante still applies today. Social media has really changed the way people interact with each other and the way we perceive success.

I always thought scandinavians were keen on progression and individual development.

CarlCarlsson 23rd May 2016 02:46 PM

Well, I'd like to believe that the Law of Jante is something of the past, but it proves me wrong from time to time. I also never like the expression to begin with, but that is a different story.

To get back to the core of this: Why is it that people who don't have any problems reacting on every day post like "look at my pizza" or Game of Throne memes totally ignores you when you post the important stuff lika "I have been working on this album for a year, I'm happy to finally share it with you". Personally I feel that someones life work would be more worth encouragement and celebration than "at fancy restaurant selfies", but that is not how it currently is. Anyone else experience this?

Mario-C. 23rd May 2016 04:49 PM

To me social media is all about the shallow stuff, so I'd use something shallow as bait ;)
If you want to go deep better use your website, there's too much stupid info on social media so you have to really work on your posts if you want your followers to react to them. There are also better hours/days of the week to post stuff and get better engagement.

I have a friend who has A LOT of followers on instagram an he really works hard on what pics/vids he shares, people perceive his posts as casual but he usually spends a lot of time creating them.

Uomo di Mele 23rd May 2016 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11915371)
Well, I'd like to believe that the Law of Jante is something of the past, but it proves me wrong from time to time. I also never like the expression to begin with, but that is a different story.

To get back to the core of this: Why is it that people who don't have any problems reacting on every day post like "look at my pizza" or Game of Throne memes totally ignores you when you post the important stuff lika "I have been working on this album for a year, I'm happy to finally share it with you". Personally I feel that someones life work would be more worth encouragement and celebration than "at fancy restaurant selfies", but that is not how it currently is. Anyone else experience this?

First - this is how life is and how people are. I see it all the time on facebook. With a picture I expect a lot of enthousiasm I almost get nothing and a picture I don't feel sure about, almost everybody likes.
Second - for you music is the most important thing in the world, but for other people it isn't. I know someone who doesn't work anymore and spend 8 hours a day on the history of his village and wrote books and articles about it. If he would post his lifework about the village on Facebook, I'm not sure how much likes he will get.

I strongly suggest not to get discouraged about this facebook-respons.

Gordon 23rd May 2016 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11914923)
Thanks!

Just to be clear: I was referring to friends rather than fans. Getting no support from friends (that supports basically anything you do apart from art) can be though sometimes. Especially in a music industry where the business measure your success in numbers of clicks and likes.

Not all friends share tastes in music, if stylistically what you're doing doesn't mesh with your friends what do you expect?

Dpro 23rd May 2016 06:55 PM

I was once asked by a singer I was working with "don't you want to be famous" I responded I want to be respected by my peers. I related this incident to a top composer friend who was going through a rough patch a year or so ago. He said it's harder to earn the respect of your peers than it is to be famous.

That I think sums up the whole gist of the OP's conundrum. One's peers are ones toughest critics.

boombapdame 23rd May 2016 07:28 PM

@ Dpro what singer said that?

DaveE 23rd May 2016 07:46 PM

I believe it comes down to not wanting to be "spammed" on social media. I'm sure like me, most of you probably follow a lot of bands/artists. It can start to overload the feed when all of them are sending out blasts every hour. If I find it fatiguing, think of how your not-that-interested-in-music friends feel. There's also the possibility they may not be into your music, but most likely, their feed is so bloated, your post was probably just missed by them completely. I have friends that will randomly ask- "did you see the video on my wall?" The answer is usually no, since I don't spend a lot of time scouring my friends' Facebook walls.

boombapdame 23rd May 2016 07:58 PM

@ CarlCarlsson the gist of social media is amplification of narcissism. As you are on Soundcloud have you been paying attention to what they are doing to DJs who post mixes, etc. Unless you are trying to get signed don't equate success to the number of likes as what matters is will you enjoy your creativity if social media was to die off?

Evdoggydog 30th May 2016 10:30 PM

Man, this is a topic I've thought a lot about over the past year. Most of what I believe has ben said, but here's the deal. I've seen a lot of support for artists that I work with (I produce) at their early stage, but once they deliver a product that is of commercial quality, there is a drop off of support from friends who were presumed to be supportive. This is the time when artists truly discover who supports them and wishes them to succeed. Because social media is purely narcissistic, seeing someone pursuing their passion and releasing art that is of quality, fuels jealousy and resentment. I've seen guys lose "friends" because their music became good. I like to say that the fans you connect with, will in most cases, not be your friends. It also has to do with consumption. Music is not as easy to consume as is a picture. It takes more time. All you can do is keep trudging on and creating great music, despite whatever resistance you face.

ctothej123 31st May 2016 01:14 AM

I think the "youtube generations" need for instant gratification kind of comes in to play here. It takes like 3 seconds to view and like a funny cat picture...it might take 3 minutes to listen to your track...and if you have been posting a lot, you might have asked for 30 whole minutes of some peoples time! So someone might take it that your wasting their time. Cause people just want funny cat pictures an memes and stuff.

If i was going to post something on facebook now of a track i'd probably take like a 15 second snippet only...through youtube with some sort of cool visual...though the kitty/puppy idea isnt half bad. Teaser vids, if you will, with the whole thing available someplace else.

Less about "sharing" and more about "marketing" if you will.

Ken Kennedy 31st May 2016 11:46 AM

I think you need to be careful thinking it's 'them' rather than 'you'. With social media, things tend to go down better that are light-hearted and fun. To keep people interested...posts need to be interesting. Promotion by stealth is the best way (I've found) to keep friends hooked. Post funny stuff AROUND what you're doing with your music, eg. "Here's me having just spilt a whole pint of beer down my front just before I went onstage last night!!!". Stuff that hooks people into wanting to keep checking your music out, rather than stuff that feels like it's compelling them to like it (the WORST kind of posts that will make people drop off like dead flies). And even posts where you're directly plugging something, keep it funny and self deprecating. Also, have separate personal and music social media accounts.
Here endeth the first lesson. kfhkh

Ken Kennedy 31st May 2016 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctothej123 (Post 11930415)

less about "sharing" and more about "marketing" if you will.

yes yes yes.

doorknocker 31st May 2016 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11914875)
Hi!
Why is it that when you post pictures of funny cats or selfies on social media you get a good amount of likes, commenst and shares from your friends but then you post your music (or any kind of art you been working on) and you almost get more unfollows than likes.

Because looking at a picture or slogan takes only a few seconds, as does expressing deep emotions like typing in 'Cute' 'Awesome' 'LOL', etc

Sounds like you're posting on your own FB profile? An artist page is the way to go and anybody checking or following a dedicated page would want to HEAR the music I assume? But your potential ausience will be limited unless you pay for page boosts... that's how FB is making money.

And FB likes can be really misleading but that is common knowledge by now I guess.

UnderTow 31st May 2016 01:53 PM

Hey Carl,

As others have written, it takes an instant to glance at a funny picture of cats. It takes... an hour or so to listen to an album. It makes no sense to compare the responses to these two completely different things.

It is also important to understand that most people are checking Facebook and such while at work or travelling to/from work (assuming they are not driving or cycling). Social media is a distraction from what they should be doing. You even see it on this forum if you spend enough time here. It is busier during the week and during office hours.

People take "micro breaks" between work activities. Checking a funny picture fits that kind of behaviour. Listening to a tune, let alone a whole album, doesn't fit that kind of behaviour. Especially if they are in a quiet office or are already listening to the radio or some SoundCloud/YouTube playlist.

The other time they check social media is while watching TV. During commercial breaks etc. That means there is already sound going on. Checking silent social media fits in and can be done in parallel with the main activity. Listening to music doesn't fit with the main activity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlCarlsson (Post 11915141)
I have lots of things online. Got about 20 songs on streaming services and I also share some "mostly-for-fun" projects on Sound Cloud.

Maybe you are sharing too much? I rarely share my own music on social media but when I do I tend to get positive responses. I have certainly not had someone unfollow or unfriend me as a result. I think the important part is the "rarely" part. I don't saturate people with self promotion so when I do share something, they can either ignore it or invest a little time in listening to it because they are curious.

There is a fine line between keeping people interested and spamming people. (And everyone will have a different threshold between what they will consider too much of a good thing).

You should probably have a different social media persona to share you music so that anything you share goes to people that are actually interested in that rather than your usual family and friends. There is no reason to think they, family and friends, will have the same musical taste as you so there is no reason to think they should like what you are doing. (This has nothing to do with jealousy or anything like that. Just different tastes).

You can of course occasionally remind friends and family that you do music by reminding them of your artist page/twitter_account/FB_account/etc but you have to do this _very_ sparingly because most of your friends and family will simply not be interested. Consider their attention as being very precious and use it wisely. After all, you are expecting something _from_ them. Don't use up their goodwill needlessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctothej123 (Post 11930415)
Less about "sharing" and more about "marketing" if you will.

Ken Kennedy already gave a great answer to this. It might be more marketing than sharing but it should never ever _feel_ like marketing or you have already lost your audience. When one markets, one want someone's attention. To get it you need to _engage_ their attention. People's attention is a very precious commodity these days. Treat it as such.

My 2 cents on the subject. :)

Alistair

CarlCarlsson 31st May 2016 04:47 PM

Hey everyone!

Thank you for all great replies! A lot of useful information here. I will be writing a longer post with answers and reflections later but for now I just wanted to say that I am using my Artist page on Facebook to post my song altough I usually "share" that post from my personal page as my artist page has about 350 likes and I have about 1100 friends.

Also, I do not spam. At least I don't think so. I make a post on Instagram/Facebook on a new tracks release date and I have never released a track less than 2-3 moths apart. So that's no more than 6 songs a year. I do not consider that Spam. :)