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-   -   What key is this song in (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/songwriting/1063024-what-key-song.html)

SOUND BOMBING 23rd January 2016 09:12 AM

What key is this song in
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6sfl3O3BI


Please help me get the key n bassline

Mr Funk 23rd January 2016 07:57 PM

Bbm according to Mixvibes Key Detect. It's usually right, but can't swear to it!

Owen L T 23rd January 2016 10:31 PM

The chords are:

||:Bb-7 \ G-7 \ | C-7 \ F7 \:||

(So the bassline is hitting Bb, G, C, F.)

That probably does make it in the key of Bb minor, making the loop a i-iii-iv-V - I find it a little hard to say for certain what the 'key' is in these kind of loops, which never really resolve anywhere. But for sure those are the chords - on which, doubtless, there will be various inversions throughout the track.

SOUND BOMBING 27th January 2016 06:20 AM

How do u play it? On my bass bmin doesn't sound as dark as the recording

SOUND BOMBING 27th January 2016 06:20 AM

Those are the only 4 notes to play on the bass?

SOUND BOMBING 27th January 2016 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Funk (Post 11646651)
Bbm according to Mixvibes Key Detect. It's usually right, but can't swear to it!


Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING (Post 11656883)
Those are the only 4 notes to play on the bass?

Check my post

nspaas 7th February 2016 05:01 AM

Cm.

Owen L T 7th February 2016 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspaas (Post 11685356)
Cm.

There is a Cm chord in there, but that's NOT the key of the song. The chords given in my post are correct, and the Bb minor key center given in both mine and the other answer are also correct.

nspaas 7th February 2016 08:37 PM

Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.

Mike.r 8th February 2016 11:43 AM

Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P

nspaas 8th February 2016 04:00 PM

kfhkh

Owen L T 8th February 2016 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspaas (Post 11686573)
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.

Curious to hear your reasoning.

Mine is (a) the progression starts on the Bb min 7th (the starting chord being one of the first places to check for a key center); and (b) it ends on the F dominant 7th chord, which resolves back to the Bb min again (being the 5th chord).

Any particular reason for choosing the 3rd chord of the progression as being its 'tonal center'? (Which, by dint of it's being there in the middle of the progression, almost by definition rules it out at as being the key of the song.)

nspaas 8th February 2016 08:25 PM


Owen L T 8th February 2016 09:02 PM

Exactly: the verse is in F# minor, which is also the first chord of the progression, and then modulates to C#minor for the chorus.

Not sure how that relates to this song, which is a totally different progression, with the chords I've outlined above.

As far as I know, I gave a complete and accurate answer to the OP. I'm genuinely curious to know the musical theory behind your correction.

nspaas 8th February 2016 10:08 PM

All my loving is in E Maj mate.

SOUND BOMBING 10th July 2016 08:14 PM

Any updates on this?

SOUND BOMBING 10th July 2016 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.r (Post 11687807)
Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P

The first person i ever askdd said f minor years ago

not like this 10th July 2016 09:58 PM

Hello... I've never posted in this section of gearslutz before but it's in Bb Dorian.

(Bb C Db Eb F G Ab)

Chords given in this thread were close, but it's a G7 not a G-7.

Chord analysis would look like this.

i-7 | V7/ii | ii-7 | V7

The G7 is considered a secondary dominant. You would want to play a G7 arpeggio or more accurately a G Mixolydian (b9, #9 , b13) but in reality the song moves way too fast for that, so just play a G7 arpeggio for soloing :)

Hope this helps!

SOUND BOMBING 11th July 2016 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not like this (Post 12009017)
Hello... I've never posted in this section of gearslutz before but it's in Bb Dorian.

(Bb C Db Eb F G Ab)

Chords given in this thread were close, but it's a G7 not a G-7.

Chord analysis would look like this.

i-7 | V7/ii | ii-7 | V7

The G7 is considered a secondary dominant. You would want to play a G7 arpeggio or more accurately a G Mixolydian (b9, #9 , b13) but in reality the song moves way too fast for that, so just play a G7 arpeggio for soloing :)

Hope this helps!

So the notes on the bass were the ones you named? Can you work with me on my theory?

not like this 11th July 2016 05:04 PM

The chord progression is:
Bb-7 G7 C-7 F7

The scale this chord progression comes from is Bb Dorian with the exception being that G7 chord. That chord is a called a secondary dominant. If you were improvising over this chord progression, you'd need to adapt the notes you play over that chord.

In regards to your last question, yes I do training for music theory & songwriting, but I'm not here to advertise my services. If you're interested in becoming a student, you can message me directly.

Good luck! Cool tune.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING (Post 12009426)
So the notes on the bass were the ones you named? Can you work with me on my theory?


Kiwi 16th July 2016 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspaas (Post 11686573)
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.

I 100% agree that this song is in C minor.

This is a trick song .. they have intentionally kept the suspense going. I thought they might resolve it right at the end, but they just use a fade out.

This is very clever songwriting - I think it's a measure of success if musicians can argue over what key its in ... not boring is good.

The reason I think this is in C minor is simply that where I 'feel' it comes home, but it never stays there for long, so I can understand why this is confusing.

Just imagine you were to play this song and then a big cheesy outro and end up on a chord that gives the maximum resolution of tension ... I would end up on a Cm for sure. Leaving in on the Fm would feel unresolved to me ...

I doubt the writers worried to much about what they did ... I'm sure they would have felt it was in C minor, and took some delight in making sure they never resolved this. But that's just me projecting.

Kiwi 16th July 2016 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspaas (Post 11689122)
All my loving is in E Maj mate.

Again, you are 100% correct - and i'm baffled that anybody would think to disagree with you.

There somes to be perhaps a mistaken belief that the key that song is in is the first chord that is played. That is not true, and obviously you understand this but it seems many others don't.

All my loving is a good example because it is similar to the OP song in question.

All my loving clearly resolves with a normal cadence. "and i'll send all my loving to YOU" ... bring it on home to E major on the 'You'. To any guitar player, it's a no brainer that this song is in E.

The OP song never resolves this with a normal cadence, which keeps it perpetually in suspense. But in the same way that All my loving is clearly in E, that song is clearly in Cm.

I think too much theory can lead you wrong ... music has to be felt. I would struggle to explain the theory of why some songs are in the key they are in ... but as a guitar player I can strum the chords and just know when I have resolved to the root chord or not ... easier felt than explained.

Kiwi 16th July 2016 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.r (Post 11687807)
Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P

C minor pentatonic works a treat too.

not like this 16th July 2016 02:45 AM

Google "secondary dominant".

The song is in Bb Dorian.

Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way. rockout

Herr Weiss 16th July 2016 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not like this (Post 12018973)
Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way. rockout


You sound like Confucius. :lol:



~HW

Kiwi 16th July 2016 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen L T (Post 11647072)
The chords are:

||:Bb-7 \ G-7 \ | C-7 \ F7 \:||

(So the bassline is hitting Bb, G, C, F.)

That probably does make it in the key of Bb minor, making the loop a i-iii-iv-V - I find it a little hard to say for certain what the 'key' is in these kind of loops, which never really resolve anywhere. But for sure those are the chords - on which, doubtless, there will be various inversions throughout the track.

I respectfully disagree with you choice of chords.

I've been jamming over it, and the chords that work best for this are:

Bbm7 G7 Cm F7

I think this chord sequence is intentionally a trick which is sort of like the Barber Pole optical illusion ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barberpole_illusion

I could almost argue that this is a sequence that gives the illusion of constantly modulating keys ... so perhaps it could be said that this song is constantly modulating between Bbm and Cm. If you think about this, this would be a classic way to modulate up a whole step from Bbm to Cm.

However, the Bbm part of the sequence really works best as Bbm7 - and it's that 7th note that makes it not fully resolve, and why I 'feel' more satifaction when it hits the Cm.

I agree this is tricky and a bit of rule breaker ... I like this chord sequence a lot. The song will never make my top 100, but this is a good trick.

Kiwi 16th July 2016 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not like this (Post 12018973)
Google "secondary dominant".

The song is in Bb Dorian.

Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way. rockout

You said above it's in Bb Dorian "except for the G7" ... so it's not, is it?

Let's be honest here. And while you are at it - being honest that is - you say you are not here to promote your music theory business, so why the hell do you even mention it? ... hmmm?

Anyways ... for practical purposes, musicians I associate with do not use the Mode names to describe Keys. We just want to know what Key the song is in, meaning one of the 12 root notes, and whether it's a major or minor. Once we have establish that the rhythm section is going to play in a paricular key, the soloists can play whatever scale they like over the top, more or less.

So I do not accept that this song is in Bb Dorian for those two reasons.

For me, it's in Cm. I would also accept that it constantly modulates between Bbm7 and Cm. So I could almost accept that it modulates between Bbm and Cm, but really - it's in Cm.

Luckily - intellectual debates like this have nothing to do with writing, playing, feeling and recording music .... so I have limited time for theory. It's a learning tool ... like trainer wheels on a bike. Some people never need it.

RyanC 18th July 2016 01:18 AM

I don't hear any Db's (in the music or vocal melody) until the chorus also the bassline at the chorus changes to Db on 1, so I think both people are kinda right.

I hear it as-

Verse

|Ab/Bb | G+7 |Cm9 |F13|

Then the Chorus is-

|Dbmaj7 |G+7 |Cm9 |F13|

The Db at the chorus is a bit of a suprise...which means it did *feel* like Cm to me before then.

When the song starts the keys are (notes) Bb-Bb-Eb-F and I think the LH is on Eb and Ab (a little hard to tell with that washy rhodes sound). So it's a sus or Ab6/Bb or whatever, then it changes a little when the groove starts (sounds like Fm7/Bb to me voiced Eb-F-Ab-C in the RH)

This is one of those groves like Cm9 to Bbm9 that isn't really in any stable *key*. The D natural works over any of the Cm9 to F13 parts, but the chorus starts on a Db so....

SOUND BOMBING 28th February 2017 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspaas (Post 11686573)
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.

So on the bass guitar what notes do i play?

RyanC 1st March 2017 09:35 PM

For the most part the bassline is just on the roots and 5ths of the chords, with the little chromatic walk ups-

|Bb F Bb |G G(hi) Bb Bnat |C C(hi) C | F F Ab Anat|

Then the Chorus is more held out

|Db | G Bb Bnat | C | F Ab Anat|


Always the Bb Bnat and Ab Anat are the last 2 8th notes leading up to the next chord.