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-   -   iCon QCon Pro VS Behringer X Touch (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1049637-icon-qcon-pro-vs-behringer-x-touch.html)

SanctionSteve 7th December 2015 12:17 AM

iCon QCon Pro VS Behringer X Touch
 
Hi all
Thinking of buying a iCon Digital QCon Pro USB DAW MIDI Controller or a Behringer X Touch for my new set up. Just bought the Nano Kontrol 2 for my old set up as a test to see how much I really did miss physical faders. And I really do! Any thoughts on the above two MIDI mixers? I am getting a new system based on a Scan PC (i7 58something overclocked & 16 GB RAM) running Cubase Pro 8.5

Cheers
Steve

aorsongmachine 7th December 2015 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanctionSteve (Post 11527268)
Hi all
Thinking of buying a iCon Digital QCon Pro USB DAW MIDI Controller or a Behringer X Touch for my new set up. Just bought the Nano Kontrol 2 for my old set up as a test to see how much I really did miss physical faders. And I really do! Any thoughts on the above two MIDI mixers? I am getting a new system based on a Scan PC (i7 58something overclocked & 16 GB RAM) running Cubase Pro 8.5

Cheers
Steve


I'm in exactly the same situation like you Steve. Still have my doubts to buy the X Touch or wait for the new icon pro G2
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...on-pro-g2.html

I think I will wait a bit longer before I decide till I have seen more reviews.

stella645 7th December 2015 02:08 PM

The icon is not going to be available anytime soon.

SanctionSteve 7th December 2015 08:08 PM

Made all the comparisons etc and I think given the build quality and the 'expandability' (which is not a word so I should be ashamed of myself), I went for the Icon which I think represents awesome value. Plus you can expand it. And it looks more pro as well I think.

gk56 9th December 2015 01:20 AM

I bought the x touch and I am quite satisfied with it. Solid build quality with smooth motor faders and it comes with a 3 year warranty. Don't know the qcon much but from the pics it looks a bit flimsy and lacks the channel level meters.
I also have the Behringer x air digital mixer and when the firmware is ready I can connect a wireless router to the x touch and remote control the x air mixer including the multicolor screens of the x touch. The x touch is also quite compact which is important for the gigs I am doing.
Here is longer thread https://www.gearslutz.com/board/prod...l-surface.html
Is the qcon g2 available?

SanctionSteve 24th December 2015 11:06 AM

Hi all. I got the QCon Pro. Got to tell you it is in no way flimsy! It is built like a beast! Proper metal case with hardwearing gel buttons! Got to say I was very pleased with it. And it's expandable too!

lydfar 25th December 2015 08:33 PM

Same situation here...

It seems that QCon and X Touch are the only competitors in that price range? Can't get my hands on any of them right now and it's difficult for me to decide witch one that are most useful for my setup. I'm going to control Pro Tools on a Mac... Any thoughts would be much appreciated? :)

gk56 26th December 2015 07:52 AM

Again I can't speak for the qcon but I do have an x touch which is a real fine piece. It feels solid and very compact which is perfect for me as it don't have much space in my studio. I am using it together with Cubase and so far it has been rock solid. Once the X AIR firmware update is out, I can finally remote control my X AIR mixer via wireless router, something the qcon can't do. For me this is a big plus.

At Thomann, the largest European retailer the X Touch is now the leading DAW and the qcon is nowhere near in terms of ranking.

Ivorydom 26th December 2015 02:43 PM

I had my eyes on both of them, really looking forward for the X-Touch release.

I must say, videos look quite disappointing. I think the X-Touch is a decent effort but I think using the old Mackie/HUI protocol at this day and age is really dated.
Hardware is one thing but manufacturers should really make an effort and develop profiles that work specifically with at least the major DAW's out there.
I have tried most controllers on the market and I find that Mackie/HUI is very limiting and works better with some DAW's and not so well with others.
The best little controller I've used (for Cubase ) is CC121. Really comprehensive, easy to use and it does offer functionality that makes you want to use this instead of the mouse.
The hardware is there with the X-Touch but I would really appreciate it if it worked with a compatibility mode for PT, Logic, Cubase rather than having all those little glitches which are obviously a result of not proprietary programming for the specific DAWs.

For now I'll skip. :(

jwh1192 26th December 2015 02:47 PM

if the behringer was 199.00 it would be a no brainer ... and why isn't it 199.00 ... behringer Pro Audio Division is in full swing ..

gk56 27th December 2015 03:17 AM

Ivory, can you share what glitches you encounter?
I run my x touch with Cubase and it works like a charm. There was a firmware release some months back that solved issues which were actually related to Cubase and not Behringer.
If you don't want the Mackie protocol, Behringer also have a freely programmable version which is the x touch compact.

Ivorydom 27th December 2015 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gk56 (Post 11569586)
Ivory, can you share what glitches you encounter?
I run my x touch with Cubase and it works like a charm. There was a firmware release some months back that solved issues which were actually related to Cubase and not Behringer.
If you don't want the Mackie protocol, Behringer also have a freely programmable version which is the x touch compact.

One of the examples is this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2sZBLlAeMA

The layout of the eq is really not ergonomic. And that's because it doesn't make any sense in this particular DAW. Having the frequency and the Q on the same encoder is really a big flaw for me as I want to control both of them at the same time until I find the sweet spot when I am surgically removing frequencies.

Also check out the Timecode...completely blank.
If it's a Cubase fault I don't know but all I know is that when you have a proprietary system like the CC121 you never run into problems like this.

CC121 has separate Frequency and Q encoders and I never had to update the drivers to make it work with a newer version of Cubase.
It just works and so should a 500 pounds controller IMO.

greggybud 27th December 2015 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lydpik (Post 11567353)
Same situation here...

It seems that QCon and X Touch are the only competitors in that price range? Can't get my hands on any of them right now and it's difficult for me to decide witch one that are most useful for my setup. I'm going to control Pro Tools on a Mac... Any thoughts would be much appreciated? :)

I think you will discover price discrepancies depend on where you live...Europe or USA. Unless the market has changed, I'm told a Mackie MCU will cost substantially more in Europe than the USA.

In the USA the IconQcon is in the $700-800 range while Behringer in the $500-600 range. Big surprise huh? It's also important to consider the price of the extenders if 8 channels isn't enough.

And by the way IMO the Qcon is not at all "flimsy" as stated above. Also, it does have level meters (LED's) next to each fader. One thing to consider is the overall look, plus the X Touch is much more compact. If you love the new Roland mini "boutique" synths I'm sure the X-Touch is perfect.

Based on the big GS Qcon thread here, I think Icon has had quality control issues in the past. I had to return my unit and have had minor issues with it on Cubase. Until recently there was only 1 retailer in the USA, but obviously that has now changed. I always had to deal with the retailer because Icon never replied to my emails.

I think the Qcon G2 is still a dream in spite of Icon posting a video of a prototype G2 at 2015 NAMM where it was mostly a box full of great concepts.

gk56 28th December 2015 01:58 AM

Ivory, the cubase issue was not related to Behringer but cubase not being compatible with the mackie protocol which the x touch and qcon are following. Behringer solved that timecode problem some time ago with a firmware update. It works perfectly in my cubase setup.
For me the cc121 would not be useful as it only had one fader and I want a full set. If I wanted a free configurable DAW I would go for the x touch compact which comes with an offline editor.

Greggybud I can't find the LED meters on the qcon pro and I put a link below. Maybe you're taking about the G2 model which I believe is still vapor ware. Also why would you want to deal with a company who doesn't answer its customers.
https://m.thomann.de/gb/icon_qcon_pro.htm?ref=mrl_aa_0

greggybud 28th December 2015 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gk56 (Post 11571462)
Ivory, the cubase issue was not related to Behringer but cubase not being compatible with the mackie protocol which the x touch and qcon are following. Behringer solved that timecode problem some time ago with a firmware update. It works perfectly in my cubase setup.
For me the cc121 would not be useful as it only had one fader and I want a full set. If I wanted a free configurable DAW I would go for the x touch compact which comes with an offline editor.

Greggybud I can't find the LED meters on the qcon pro and I put a link below. Maybe you're taking about the G2 model which I believe is still vapor ware. Also why would you want to deal with a company who doesn't answer its customers.
https://m.thomann.de/gb/icon_qcon_pro.htm?ref=mrl_aa_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKeXTIG6vbo

See the little dots next to each channel fader? Those are LED's.

Icon demoed a G2 at NAMM but as I said it was just a box with knobs and controls nothing working. Of course the big excitement was the units would come pre-configured based on your DAW selection...so no more overlays.

I don't know if you consider that vaper ware, but that is where they were at almost a year ago. There is also the Facebook report (not Icon Facebook) of Icon being WAY behind schedule with the G2.

Until Behringer came along the only choices I know of for similar features were Mackie MCU and the QconPro. While I'm told both are fairly similar, I liked the layout and look of the QconPro. Also I'm not a fan of miniaturizing controllers. It seems to be a trend dominated by prosumers to save money similar to Rolands Boutique line of emulating vintage synths. That's a personal choice, and I know I'm in the minority.

In the USA at that time the agreement was that any support was done by IconDigitalUSA therefore I guess Icon Global didn't feel necessary to reply to any emails. Now Mixware LCC seems to have taken over the USA distribution and support.
Help | Mixware

If you want to know more about the QconPro I suggest this thread that started out with the Qcon and now the QconPro:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...-any-good.html

And if you are using the QconPro with Cubase, remember there are 2 different modes to operate in. Cubase mode and compatibility mode. Those are selected in Cubase and make a very big difference in how the features are accessed on the display.

gk56 29th December 2015 03:06 AM

Thanks, I now see the Led's, could not spot them before.

Size is always a matter of personal preference but for me the x touch is exactly the right format as it is a good compromise between functionality and overall size. I once had a Mackie control and that thing was too deep for me and wasted much of my desk space even though I liked that the display was tilted.
I read on the behringer forum that a new firmware for the x touch is about to be released which allows to remote control the x air digital mixers.
I have one of their great little x air mixers and to be able to remote control it via the x touch is exactly what I need for my gigs. Among all the three controllers, only the x touch has Ethernet connectivity so you can connect a wireless router and wirelessly remote control.

Ivorydom 15th January 2016 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gk56 (Post 11571462)
Ivory, the cubase issue was not related to Behringer but cubase not being compatible with the mackie protocol which the x touch and qcon are following. Behringer solved that timecode problem some time ago with a firmware update. It works perfectly in my cubase setup.
For me the cc121 would not be useful as it only had one fader and I want a full set. If I wanted a free configurable DAW I would go for the x touch compact which comes with an offline editor.
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Hey GK,

Ok here's one of the many issues with all those generic controllers:

When you are mixing and select a track in Cubase then the mixer doesn't update to scroll to the desired bank.

Therefore I have to scroll between banks and banks of 8 until I find my selected channel to control it. This really defeats the point of a control surface.

The reason for that? The ancient generic Mackie Protocol.
CC121 (that doesn't use Mackie and is tied to the DAW) works like a charm updating the fader so I immediately have control over my channel.

I know it's not enough and I know it's just one fader but I am way faster using this and being always in focus rather having 8 faders and having to scroll to find my track.

That being said, I am not sure if the X-Touch has this problem but the QCon definitely does.

I would be really happy to know.

:)

lydfar 15th January 2016 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivorydom (Post 11616040)
Hey GK,

Ok here's one of the many issues with all those generic controllers:

When you are mixing and select a track in Cubase then the mixer doesn't update to scroll to the desired bank.

Therefore I have to scroll between banks and banks of 8 until I find my selected channel to control it. This really defeats the point of a control surface.

The reason for that? The ancient generic Mackie Protocol.
CC121 (that doesn't use Mackie and is tied to the DAW) works like a charm updating the fader so I immediately have control over my channel.

I know it's not enough and I know it's just one fader but I am way faster using this and being always in focus rather having 8 faders and having to scroll to find my track.

That being said, I am not sure if the X-Touch has this problem but the QCon definitely does.

I would be really happy to know.

:)

Is that a common problem for all DAW's or mainly Cubase?

mattiasnyc 16th January 2016 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lydpik (Post 11617057)
Is that a common problem for all DAW's or mainly Cubase?

I think the same is true for the Mackie itself with Pro Tools for example.

Ivorydom 20th January 2016 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattiasnyc (Post 11618377)
I think the same is true for the Mackie itself with Pro Tools for example.

Exactly my point.
Manufacturers have made it possible to produce nice ergonomic controllers at a good price but in my opinion the problem does not lie in the hardware anymore but in the software.

I think this "lazy" scheme of assigning all DAW's to Mackie or HUI is ancient and obsolete.
Please spend some time and give us controllers that will work tightly and fully integrated with the different DAW's (even if you have to support very few of them) and then you will have a winner.

I have used QCon extensively and I know what the limitations are.
So I am sorry but I will pass on the X-Touch. It was promising but Mackie is not going to cut it for me. :(

lydfar 21st January 2016 10:09 PM

what are the limitations in QCon compared to all other HUI controllers - e.g the Mackies?

gearsloot 21st January 2016 10:39 PM

I have the QCon, really pleased with it. I've had it for almost 2 years, still as good as the day I bought it.

Pyramid City 2nd February 2016 07:49 PM

Im having a really hard time deciding if i want to wait for the G2 to release or just break down and get the Qcon Pro with 1 extender. Was going to get 2 X-Touches mainly because im going to be doing shows for people that have the rack X32 but heard they are just whatever for live situations so I decided against that. I also mainy want to wait for Gen 2 because of the fader resolution difference. Have you guys with the 1st gen Qcon Pro noticed any big differences mixing on it vs, say, a 003 console or something that has 10 bit resolution faders?

lou latch 9th February 2016 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyramid City (Post 11674115)
Have you guys with the 1st gen Qcon Pro noticed any big differences mixing on it vs, say, a 003 console or something that has 10 bit resolution faders?

That's exactly what i want to know, too!

Nobody?

Using an Artist Control at the moment but that doesn't play well with Reaper.

Pyramid City 9th February 2016 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lou latch (Post 11690903)
That's exactly what i want to know, too!

Nobody?

Using an Artist Control at the moment but that doesn't play well with Reaper.

I'm using pro tools so i almost bought an Artist control and mix. but decided against it when i saw the Qcon pro G2 videos. I mean we are looking at 127 steps of volume with the 7bit faders opposed to 1024 steps of volume on the 10bit faders. Im guessing there is quite a noticeable difference but just dont know for sure!

lou latch 9th February 2016 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyramid City (Post 11690949)
I'm using pro tools so i almost bought an Artist control and mix. but decided against it when i saw the Qcon pro G2 videos. I mean we are looking at 127 steps of volume with the 7bit faders opposed to 1024 steps of volume on the 10bit faders. Im guessing there is quite a noticeable difference but just dont know for sure!

If you're using Pro Tools the Artist Control makes a lot of sense because of the huge amount of functions you can directly assign to many layers of virtual buttons on the touch screen or about ten layers of real buttons beyond the display... i really enjoyed that. Anyway, i mainly use Reaper now and that doesn't come with proper Eucon implementation.

Also i'm not sure if the fader resolution is 7 or 8 bit - i have read statements of both.

Here's a pretty extensive review, also adressing fader resolution (under chapter 'in use')

Hardware / Sound Cards / iCON QCon Pro review - Espace Cubase

It just might be o.k., i'll probably get it and try it out.

I'd also love to get the QCon X (new name of the G2), but the only german dealer says delivery time is 13 weeks... and then i'd still want to wait and see if there are issues with the first run :-)

Pyramid City 9th February 2016 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lou latch (Post 11691588)
If you're using Pro Tools the Artist Control makes a lot of sense because of the huge amount of functions you can directly assign to many layers of virtual buttons on the touch screen or about ten layers of real buttons beyond the display... i really enjoyed that. Anyway, i mainly use Reaper now and that doesn't come with proper Eucon implementation.

Also i'm not sure if the fader resolution is 7 or 8 bit - i have read statements of both.

Here's a pretty extensive review, also adressing fader resolution (under chapter 'in use')

Hardware / Sound Cards / iCON QCon Pro review - Espace Cubase

It just might be o.k., i'll probably get it and try it out.

I'd also love to get the QCon X (new name of the G2), but the only german dealer says delivery time is 13 weeks... and then i'd still want to wait and see if there are issues with the first run :-)


Yeah ive seen 7 and 8 bit as well, but i think ICON has said 7bit in their videos. 13 weeks might even be pushing it. I read the China Factory had some issues that put them back a year. Original date was september of 2015 and they still arent out yet. Would love your thoughts on the 1st gen if you get it.

lou latch 12th February 2016 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyramid City (Post 11691696)
Yeah ive seen 7 and 8 bit as well, but i think ICON has said 7bit in their videos. 13 weeks might even be pushing it. I read the China Factory had some issues that put them back a year. Original date was september of 2015 and they still arent out yet. Would love your thoughts on the 1st gen if you get it.

just really quick as a first impression, received a QCon pro today, updated firmware, connected, set up basic functionality in reaper. flawless. fader resolution in reaper ist between 0.1 and 0.2 dB in the range between -10 and +10 db. that's good enough for me at the moment. actually i forgot to try how much it was on the Artist Control before swapping. i'll probably do that later. Unfortunately i can't test everything properly today, i'm in a hurry. possibly next week. then i can also test fader resolution in pro tools 12.

All in all the QCon feels quite a bit more solid than Artist Control. I like it more. Except the faders being a bit more noisy than Artist Control's. But integration in Pro Tools of course is more advanced with Eucon. Did you have a look at the S3? Expensive, but it might be worth it, if you work with Pro Tools a lot.

edit: fader resolution with QCon in pro tools is a bit more than 0.2 dB

Pyramid City 12th February 2016 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lou latch (Post 11698219)
just really quick as a first impression, received a QCon pro today, updated firmware, connected, set up basic functionality in reaper. flawless. fader resolution in reaper ist between 0.1 and 0.2 dB in the range between -10 and +10 db. that's good enough for me at the moment. actually i forgot to try how much it was on the Artist Control before swapping. i'll probably do that later. Unfortunately i can't test everything properly today, i'm in a hurry. possibly next week. then i can also test fader resolution in pro tools 12.

All in all the QCon feels quite a bit more solid than Artist Control. I like it more. Except the faders being a bit more noisy than Artist Control's. But integration in Pro Tools of course is more advanced with Eucon. Did you have a look at the S3? Expensive, but it might be worth it, if you work with Pro Tools a lot.


Thanks for the info! I did look at the S3. Really nice but too pricey for what it is in My opinion. I love my 003 console and would just buy a 2nd if i could plug 2 together for 16 faders because the plugin control is enough for me to work with. The Qcon seems to have the same amount of plugin control along with the expander. Probably going to sit tight and wait for Gen 2 to come out and snag that with 1 expander to start.

lydfar 13th February 2016 12:55 PM

The plugin control is different from any other HUI based controller, how??

Plugin control usually is such huge a mess in Pro Tools. :facepalm:

I think you'll be better off with your 003. :)