Gearslutz

Gearslutz (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/)
-   High End (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/)
-   -   Lexicon 480L still ruling as the best digital Reverb sound (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/1027594-lexicon-480l-still-ruling-best-digital-reverb-sound.html)

Midas 28th August 2015 03:28 AM

Lexicon 480L still ruling as the best digital Reverb sound
 
Hello slutzs

I´ve recently got a Lexicon 480L..that was one of the most sought after units that i´ve been looking for the last years..ii also have a Nice TC electronic M-5000 ( very clean sound) , but once i started using the 480L i kind of forgot about how much i did pay for it...i´m sad to say that there won´t be a plugin reaching half of the quality & density that the 480L may give to your mixes...having tried almost all the high end plugins available...processing fx apart in a outboard units still domaining the audio quality been so noticiable...so my question is about how many of you still considerer the 480L as the best ever digital Reverb sound?

cheers

js230 28th August 2015 05:17 AM

LX480 = 480L as far as I'm concerned. Run it through a board if you require.

psycho_monkey 28th August 2015 05:31 AM

We have a 480 in the studio. I have exponential audio and altiverb plugins. To be honest, I don't generally bother with the 480 - maybe it's just taste, but I much prefer the plates in altiverb and the drum rooms in R2. I also like vintage verb for the crunchy stuff.

mixmixmix 28th August 2015 05:37 AM

It is still the best. Enjoy it.

Storyville 28th August 2015 06:13 AM

I think it's good because it has THAT sound that we hear on so many records. But honestly I do think the Bricasti sounds more realistic and can still sound just as rich and lush as well. So that's my preference by a slight margin. I also think the plugin Lexicon stuff comes super freakin' close to the outboard pcm, and sounds pretty durn great.

Palermo 28th August 2015 08:36 AM

The 480L is a thing of beauty but then so is the Bricasti. If you have a desk and require outboard reverb units those two would be my top picks.

I hear what you are saying about many of the plugins but recently when our 480L went down we used the Relab LX480 and while the work flow was somewhat cumbersome in comparison the sonic results were in all honestly excellent. While nothing beats the tactile engagement of a Larc when you are working from a desk, the Relab Lx 480 is outstanding

recdude 28th August 2015 08:48 AM

I got a 480L in the studio too and I own altiverb 7XL. In most cases I use altiverb - sometimes the 480L emulations in altiverb (when I want some plates or something). In my opinion altiverb is really nice too and it has much more sets in it (I also got an expansion card for my 480L).

toolz 28th August 2015 08:49 AM

After all these years, the 480L still blows me away on the right vocal.

thehightenor 28th August 2015 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by js230 (Post 11292707)
LX480 = 480L as far as I'm concerned. Run it through a board if you require.

Exactly my thought.

The OP has the opportunity to grab a free copy of the LX480 IF he can prove there's a difference running a signal through the hardware and plugin.

At least that was Martin's offer IIRC :-)

Personally I cannot hear any difference between the plugin and the hardware so I believe Martin when he says that the LX480 is sample accurate to the hardware, bold claim as it is.

For vocals I actually prefer either the RMX16 or EMT250.

But the Hall on the 480 makes a great back wall in a mix for washy guitars or keyboards.

narcoman 28th August 2015 09:03 AM

Definitely does for that "sound". BUT I'm more of an EMT140 guy so I sold mine ages ago....

Midas 28th August 2015 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey (Post 11292726)
We have a 480 in the studio. I have exponential audio and altiverb plugins. To be honest, I don't generally bother with the 480 - maybe it's just taste, but I much prefer the plates in altiverb and the drum rooms in R2. I also like vintage verb for the crunchy stuff.

So way to bother summing inna analog ouboard? like the current fashion.. processing externaly either with a Fx unit or Analog compressor/ Mixer is a matter of width/depth & amplitude and grainy flavour... from that ¿why to wait unnecessary years waiting for these " Miraculous Plugins" that never will sound as the outboards units?

cheers

psycho_monkey 28th August 2015 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midas (Post 11293197)
So way to bother summing inna analog ouboard? like the current fashion.. processing externaly either with a Fx unit or Analog compressor/ Mixer is a matter of width/depth & amplitude and grainy flavour... from that why to wait unnecessary years waiting for these " Miraculous Plugins" that never will sound as the outboards units

cheers

I'm sorry?

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying - it doesn't really make sense in English.

I don't use an analogue summer, I'm not sure where that came from!

You're entitled to your opinion on reverbs, but I'm also entitled to mine. Just because we don't agree, doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong. I have a physical 480 - I don't like it as much as the plugins I use.

I also wouldn't choose to buy one for support reasons - I'd probably chose a bricasti or 960, but that's a different issue. If the cards go down, you'll be looking around 2nd hand dealers for spares.

Midas 28th August 2015 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey (Post 11293208)
I'm sorry?

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying - it doesn't really make sense in English.

I don't use an analogue summer, I'm not sure where that came from!

You're entitled to your opinion on reverbs, but I'm also entitled to mine. Just because we don't agree, doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong. I have a physical 480 - I don't like it as much as the plugins I use.

I also wouldn't choose to buy one for support reasons - I'd probably chose a bricasti or 960, but that's a different issue. If the cards go down, you'll be looking around 2nd hand dealers for spares.

Well sorry in that case i´ll more simple with you...Just an external Fx processor sounds miles away better than a fx plugin! ...as an analog summing sounds better than digital summing...i´m glad that you are happy enough with your plugins... likely in the streaming Era you´ll survive!!

regards

psycho_monkey 28th August 2015 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midas (Post 11293483)
Well sorry in that case i´ll more simple with you...Just an external Fx processor sounds miles away better than a fx plugin! ...as an analog summing sounds better than digital summing...i´m glad that you are happy enough with your plugins... likely in the streaming Era you´ll survive!!

regards

I'll be more simple with YOU - that's your OPINION - not an absolute. It may be the best FOR YOU - it isn't isn't FOR ME - and because that's MY opinion, stop trying to tell me I'm wrong! Because that's impossible ;)

(Err - I can be wrong, just not wrong about my opinion, in case that's not clear).

IMO you need to learn the difference between your opinion and fact. You seem to post as if the two are inseparable.

Warp69 28th August 2015 04:43 PM

IMO the 480L is an incredible machine and the mere fact that it is still considered one of the best after 20+ years is a testament to the quality of the unit. Very, very few other reverbs can match the envelopment/spaciousness (3D) of the unit, but the processing power was pretty limited back then, so there're obvious compromises. I'm a huge fan of David Griesinger designs (224, 224(XL) and 480L), but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midas (Post 11292586)
so my question is about how many of you still considerer the 480L as the best ever digital Reverb sound?

Not for me.

Jim Williams 28th August 2015 04:43 PM

The PCM 92 can do a decent 'swishy-chorus-' digital reverb copy of the 480, if that's your thing.

I've been more satisfied with ver. 2 rich plate on the Bricasti M7 with a touch of modulation added. Every time I hear those tracks I want to crank the volume at the end just to hear the M7 wash. The M7 is the only reverb I've ever heard/used that sounded great 100% wet. Try that with the lexy's.

Warp69 28th August 2015 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams (Post 11293676)
The M7 is the only reverb I've ever heard/used that sounded great 100% wet. Try that with the lexy's.

That depends on the ER settings. Without any strong reflection at the onset of the reverb (like ER or additional reflection taps) most reverbs can sound strange 100% wet.

Fidelis 28th August 2015 05:04 PM

There is no such a thing as the best... I love my 480l, still use it almost every day. But I do also love my bricasti, my Pcm70, and... several plugins reverbs. All of them are great... Depends on the music...

drBill 28th August 2015 06:07 PM

Sold the 480L
Sold the PCM96
Bought a Bricasti, the PCM Native bundle and VVV and I'm good.

Still want the Exponential stuff as well.

I occasionally miss the 480, but if it ever gets toooo bad I'll buy the LX480. I couldn't live with a $4000 ticking time bomb. Still, it was a nice box.

Jeff Hayat 28th August 2015 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storyville (Post 11292775)
But honestly I do think the Bricasti sounds more realistic....

Can you describe what 'realistic' means when it comes to reverb? Curious...

drBill 28th August 2015 07:56 PM

Jeff - I'm not storyville, but......

the Bricasti sounds more like "real space" and wraps around the sound of the instrument in a very natural and organic way. Much like pulling a mic back from the source - you hear a natural room tone that gets more prominent the more you pull a mic back.

The Lexicons are awesome - and I LOVE what they do, but not really "natural" in the sense of the M7.

They are both killer, and both needed, but quite different. IMO, neither does what the other does. For the Lex sound, I've been OK with the PCM native bundle and the Valhalla VVV. Can't duplicate the Bricasti without the box IMO.

If you're looking for big, wet, swimming and chorused.....480L is king. Or the Lex plugs and VVV are very close. I hear the LX480 is even closer....

Storyville 28th August 2015 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat (Post 11294035)
Can you describe what 'realistic' means when it comes to reverb? Curious...

A space that sounds believably like an actual room.

TheLastByte 28th August 2015 11:54 PM

Quite possibly your 480L just might have the optional Transformers on the inputs and Outs, those were an option and many 480L users whom have this option love the sound they get. It's no doubt a monster Reverb, though again..... Always Reverb seems to be about choice of material and Algos etc. The Bricasti you could throw in the Quantec and IR Hatdware bucket of huge delays in nested all pass filter networks and other Filter trickery with millions of delay reflections giving a very "Real Life" sound as though the space in which the Material exists is... Very real, like Taj Mahal or Boston chamber to you name it. Used on Folk, Jazz, classical etc, the Bricasti is super realistic though algorithmic Reverb!

Just as some Singers use a SM7 or 58 when in a Studio where there are U47 long bodies and C12's by the dozen... everything always comes down to context, client, material and outcome desired, often that "Known Reverb" does the trick often not. As to plug ins or Hardware ....irrelevant for many and often with 64 bit not required at MP3 128 Kbps etc. I'd even go as far to say Altiverb in 2015 with so many controls has near bypassed the initial Sony or Yanaha Convo IR units, as Altiverb can near bend spaces in an algorithmic fashion, again, just my point of view - no right or wrong! Whatever does the job in the best fashion! No need to not enjoy all tools!

delcosmos 28th August 2015 11:57 PM

I think Relab 480XL sounds very close to the real thing.

But since I own 2 480L I prefer to save dsp for other things and use my lovely lexicons every single day.

TheLastByte 29th August 2015 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey (Post 11293208)
I'm sorry?

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying - it doesn't really make sense in English.

I don't use an analogue summer, I'm not sure where that came from!

You're entitled to your opinion on reverbs, but I'm also entitled to mine. Just because we don't agree, doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong. I have a physical 480 - I don't like it as much as the plugins I use.

I also wouldn't choose to buy one for support reasons - I'd probably chose a bricasti or 960, but that's a different issue. If the cards go down, you'll be looking around 2nd hand dealers for spares.

Indeed this is very true in the Oceania areas as support for 480L's is really a second unit, certainly they can be fixed, and boards sent off, though maintaining a 480L even in a private Facility is a hot potato, if you have Bendon or others in the UK or USA, life is much easier. Even a 224XL has of the shelf parts that can be shipped where as the 480L has proprietry components long gone!

LARES would be the only....reason I'd grab a 480L. Relab does a brilliant 480L and can't really be faulted in that respect.

waldie wave 29th August 2015 02:00 AM

480L is the most amazing reverb I've ever used. It sprinkles pixie dust over anything it touches. Quite magical really. I haven't tried the relab plugin and hope to try it at some stage. While the Bricasti is exceptional, I have a real soft spot for the 480L (and 224).

xaMdaM 29th August 2015 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidelis (Post 11293727)
There is no such a thing as the best... I love my 480l, still use it almost every day. But I do also love my bricasti, my Pcm70, and... several plugins reverbs. All of them are great... Depends on the music...

I gotta agree that there's no such thing as "best"... other than best for a given song, instrument/voice, etc...

LOVE my 480L, and use it on a ton of projects... but I also use (and DEARLY love) my EMT140S, (There's no other "digital plate" that sounds like a real plate... period.), the BX20 Spring (no "digital spring" comes close to a real spring, and even the physical chamber I've built here in the studio... and once again, there's no "digital chamber" that sounds like a real chamber.

Even though my outboard PCM 41, PCM 70, PCM 80, PCM 90, LXP1, LXP15, Rev7, M5000, H3000 and the lowly SPX1000, as well as Sound toys and other plugs still get used on occasion because they're the best fit for the right context.

Diegel 29th August 2015 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midas (Post 11292586)
Hello slutzs

I´ve recently got a Lexicon 480L..that was one of the most sought after units that i´ve been looking for the last years..ii also have a Nice TC electronic M-5000 ( very clean sound) , but once i started using the 480L i kind of forgot about how much i did pay for it...i´m sad to say that there won´t be a plugin reaching half of the quality & density that the 480L may give to your mixes...having tried almost all the high end plugins available...processing fx apart in a outboard units still domaining the audio quality been so noticiable...so my question is about how many of you still considerer the 480L as the best ever digital Reverb sound?

cheers

I had a 480l. It definitely has THAT sound. But then I got Relab lx480 and I don't miss the 480l one bit. Real time mix downs? Trying to recall old mixes on hardware? Expensive or irreplaceable parts and repairs? No thanks. I like speed and efficiency. Also I got in the habit of putting Slate VTM after my lx480 plugin to give it a little more analog goodness.

Sounds Great 29th August 2015 03:27 AM

What ever happened to the high end sampling reverbs, Yamaha SREV1 and the Sony DRE777? Haven't heard anything about them in years.

Midas 29th August 2015 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey (Post 11293570)
IMO you need to learn the difference between your opinion and fact. You seem to post as if the two are inseparable.

Well my opinion is just a fact...maybe you can´t hear these acoustic differences...wich can be also a fact.. almost every professional knows that processing fx in a external unit sounds better than whatever plugin..

Maybe you still wondering why the top mix engineers like Chris Lord Alge, Manny Marroquin and so on have their Lexicon 480 Beside them ...no reverb beats the 480 Density...that is exceptional..

cheers