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Studio one sounds thin
Old 15th November 2014
  #1
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mpcsauce's Avatar
 

Studio one sounds thin

After coming from producing music on protools for about 10 years.. I decided to switch to studio one for more of the practical audio and midi capabilities... Now after a year of using S1... I realize it sounds thin.. I can hear the difference in the stereo field and fullness being lost, when listening to my beats that I made in protools.. I'm using the mbox pro2 as my sound card.. Which was the same in PT... Any reasons y?!

I'm also bouncing my music offline as MP3 (320k).. Idk if that makes a difference.. When in protools I bounce my music realtime as .wav

Last edited by mpcsauce; 15th November 2014 at 09:17 AM..
Old 15th November 2014
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
After coming from producing music on protools for about 10 years.. I decided to switch to studio one for more of the practical audio and midi capabilities... Now after a year of using S1... I realize it sounds thin.. I can hear the difference in the stereo field and fullness being lost, when listening to my beats that I made in protools.. I'm using the mbox pro2 as my sound card.. Which was the same in PT... Any reasons y?!

I'm also bouncing my music offline as MP3 (320k).. Idk if that makes a difference.. When in protools I bounce my music realtime as .wav
Wav is highest quality u can get, a 320 mp3 is ok to listen to but u can definetly hear a quality difference if you listen clostly. That might be it. I have never used studio 1 so i couldnt tell u more. Also could be in your mixing or u might be using different plugins as they come with different eqs and compressors


Only way to really know is do a large session export with the same exact levels and settings on pro tools and studio 1 export them both in wav quality the same way and compare them.
Old 15th November 2014
  #3
Gear Addict
 

It's not Studio One, it's your mixes. Sorry
Old 15th November 2014
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post

I'm also bouncing my music offline as MP3 (320k).. Idk if that makes a difference.. When in protools I bounce my music realtime as .wav
.mp3 is a lossy compression scheme... meaning it throws away data to make the file smaller. If you are collaborating across the net using files then you might want to look into .flac as it is losslessly compressed and so the same quality as uncompressed .wav files. You can use audacity to open .flac files and convert them to .wav or similar if needed.

Freya
Old 15th November 2014
  #5
Old 16th November 2014
  #6
Gear Addict
They all output the same, but the effects are different. Your probably just not used to mixing with those effects.
Old 16th November 2014
  #7
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Pro Tools and Studio One might have different pan laws. That might explain the stereo field differences. Other than that DAWs do not add any extra voodoo to the sound. Also, comparing a Pro Tools .WAV to a Studio One .MP3 using your ears is not an objective comparison. A null test exported to the same format using a spectrum analyzer is objective, and it will show you there is no difference. Studio One is not making your mixes sound thin.
Old 16th November 2014
  #8
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Ok so I did a quick test bounced my beats real time/.wav in S1... Deff heard the difference in the bottem end... And I just also realized I was bouncing my material at 320k (.mp3)with a sample rate in 44k instead of 48k.. I honestly heard more fuller sound.. Subtle but it sounds exactly how I hear it coming out my monitors.. IDk if 44k sample makes a diff compare to 48k..maybe that was my problem.. I didn't test hearing the two sample rates but I will when I get home from work..
Old 16th November 2014
  #9
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
Ok so I did a quick test bounced my beats real time/.wav in S1... Deff heard the difference in the bottem end... And I just also realized I was bouncing my material at 320k (.mp3)with a sample rate in 44k instead of 48k.. I honestly heard more fuller sound.. Subtle but it sounds exactly how I hear it coming out my monitors.. IDk if 44k sample makes a diff compare to 48k..maybe that was my problem.. I didn't test hearing the two sample rates but I will when I get home from work..
Bouncing real time won't matter.
Doing a null test by inverting two files against each other will show any differences.
Identical wave files always cancel each other out no matter what host you use.
wave files will not cancel out against an mp3 however due to file compression.
Old 16th November 2014
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
Ok so I did a quick test bounced my beats real time/.wav in S1... Deff heard the difference in the bottem end... And I just also realized I was bouncing my material at 320k (.mp3)with a sample rate in 44k instead of 48k.. I honestly heard more fuller sound.. Subtle but it sounds exactly how I hear it coming out my monitors.. IDk if 44k sample makes a diff compare to 48k..maybe that was my problem.. I didn't test hearing the two sample rates but I will when I get home from work..
If you have yourself convinced of something that's not there enjoy your new suit.
Old 17th November 2014
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
Ok so I did a quick test bounced my beats real time/.wav in S1... Deff heard the difference in the bottem end... And I just also realized I was bouncing my material at 320k (.mp3)with a sample rate in 44k instead of 48k.. I honestly heard more fuller sound.. Subtle but it sounds exactly how I hear it coming out my monitors.. IDk if 44k sample makes a diff compare to 48k..maybe that was my problem.. I didn't test hearing the two sample rates but I will when I get home from work..
DAWs do not affect the sound. The only way you can contradict this is if you (1) bounce both to the same format, same sample rate, and same bit depth with no plugins in the session, (2) run a null test of both bounces and post a screenshot of your spectrum analyzer, and (3) upload your stems so someone else here can run the same null test and verify the alleged anomaly. But this would be a huge waste of everyone's time because DAWs do not affect the sound.
Old 19th November 2014
  #12
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It's not Studio One. After 10 years with Protools, my mixes sound better after mixing in Studio One. Also, I am still using a Digi002.
Old 19th November 2014
  #13
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jbrown1music's Avatar
its definitely your mixing bro.
Old 19th November 2014
  #14
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I have done null tests in the past to demystify the thought that DAWS have a "sound". Yes, they all null but I wonder if they would null if you throw a plug in into the equation? Obviously it would be the same plugins with the same presets to qualify for a legit null test.
Old 19th November 2014
  #15
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I think that this "DAW sound quality" claim can have merits when we begin to include the quality of the built in effects in the discussion. Quite often when I hear some one complaining about the sound of say Ableton Live vs Logic, they tend to be making an argument (subconsciously) on the qualities of reverbs, delays, compressors, limiters and EQs included in each DAW.

DAWs DO effect the sound when we look at what a DAW provides holistically. The OP hasn't mentioned what type of plugins and processing he's using to mix, which could be helpful in determining the cause of his mixing issues.
Old 20th November 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
I think that this "DAW sound quality" claim can have merits when we begin to include the quality of the built in effects in the discussion. Quite often when I hear some one complaining about the sound of say Ableton Live vs Logic, they tend to be making an argument (subconsciously) on the qualities of reverbs, delays, compressors, limiters and EQs included in each DAW.

DAWs DO effect the sound when we look at what a DAW provides holistically. The OP hasn't mentioned what type of plugins and processing he's using to mix, which could be helpful in determining the cause of his mixing issues.
A point well made
Old 20th November 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major View Post
I think that this "DAW sound quality" claim can have merits when we begin to include the quality of the built in effects in the discussion. Quite often when I hear some one complaining about the sound of say Ableton Live vs Logic, they tend to be making an argument (subconsciously) on the qualities of reverbs, delays, compressors, limiters and EQs included in each DAW.

DAWs DO effect the sound when we look at what a DAW provides holistically. The OP hasn't mentioned what type of plugins and processing he's using to mix, which could be helpful in determining the cause of his mixing issues.
That is not a comparison of how DAWs process audio. That is a comparison of plugins. Just because they come stock with the DAW does not make them any more embedded in the DAWs internal processing than third party plugins. It's the same as comparing Waves to FabFilter and then wondering why the mix sounds different. The DAW didn't create the discrepancies, the user-added plugins and user-tweaked parameters did. Throwing plugins into the equation renders the whole experiment moot.
Old 20th November 2014
  #18
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mpcsauce's Avatar
 

When I was in PT I was just using mainly third party plugins(waves, fabfilter) rarely stock plugins in PT.. But in studio one I am using their stock eq abs compressor a lot.. I guess that's it
Old 20th November 2014
  #19
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Studio One's stock plugins are quite good actually, you can get pretty nice sounding mixes with it.
Old 21st November 2014
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
When I was in PT I was just using mainly third party plugins(waves, fabfilter) rarely stock plugins in PT.. But in studio one I am using their stock eq abs compressor a lot.. I guess that's it
Different parameters on different plugins using different sample rates and different file formats is going to yield a different result. Nothing to do with the DAW.
Old 25th November 2014
  #21
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I mix entirely in Studio One, it's sound engine is one of the best I've worked with. To my ears, S1 has some of the best digital summing out there, it's def the mix if S1 sounds thin to you. I don't use a ton of the stock plugins, but what I have used, like the ProEQ, Tricomp, and OpenAir, all sounded great. Ableton also has a solid sound engine you can real push the faders in Live, and the sound holds it's integrity, but S1 has my heart and soul, and I've tried everything from Logic to Cubans, Pro Tools included.
Old 25th November 2014
  #22
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Cubase* lol autocorrect
Old 25th November 2014
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnBoy View Post
I mix entirely in Studio One, it's sound engine is one of the best I've worked with. To my ears, S1 has some of the best digital summing out there, it's def the mix if S1 sounds thin to you. I don't use a ton of the stock plugins, but what I have used, like the ProEQ, Tricomp, and OpenAir, all sounded great. Ableton also has a solid sound engine you can real push the faders in Live, and the sound holds it's integrity, but S1 has my heart and soul, and I've tried everything from Logic to Cubans, Pro Tools included.
Please do tell some more about the loch ness sound engine.
Old 25th November 2014
  #24
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Zyzygis's Avatar
In my experience Cubans are warmer and more colourful.
Seriously though, S1 sounds great! If there is a problem it's likely to be with gain staging and or plugins. Hitting the main bus too hard will not do anything good to the sound.
Old 25th November 2014
  #25
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FFS.
Old 25th November 2014
  #26
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Sgalb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
Now after a year of using S1... I realize it sounds thin..
Old 25th November 2014
  #27
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takka360's Avatar
 

Its not studio 1
Old 25th November 2014
  #28
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If you like using studio 1 but aren't satisfied with the output bus you should try adding an analogue summing mixer.

That way you can custom tailor the sound of your master bus the way you want.
Old 26th November 2014
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anstahc View Post
Please do tell some more about the loch ness sound engine.

I used to think the idea of different audio engines sounding different from DAW to DAW was bull, but I believe there are subtle differences. Not all DAWS were written and coded the exact same way, and therefore can have different characteristics. It's subtle, and admittedly negligible to whether a program can produce quality audio, but my point was mainly to address the fact that it's not S1 making things sound thin, it's a solid audio engine. Your prototypical GS cynicism is much appreciated though, I mean what would this forum be without you guys?
Old 26th November 2014
  #30
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpcsauce View Post
Now after a year of using S1... I realize it sounds thin.. I can hear the difference in the stereo field and fullness being lost
That sort of occurrence can happen when using certain types of stereo width enhancement plug-ins. The low end can lose power as you increase the amount of stereo width enhancement, which will take away from the sense of fullness you heard prior. To compensate, some plug-ins allow you to boost the width of your audio while leaving the low end of it untouched. For plug-ins that don't allow for this, you can compensate by adjusting the low end yourself to get back some of that fullness.

AFAIK, the Waves S1 is a M/S type of processor that changes the volume level of the Side channel in relation to that of the Mid. The more width you boost with it, the quieter the center of your mix will become.
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