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Thoughts on Faderports?
Old 30th September 2019
  #1
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BezowinZ's Avatar
Thoughts on Faderports?

I'm close to pulling the trigger on S1 as a replacement/alternative to Logic (lack of true stereo panning and inability to slave to external sequencer are the only reasons I don't already own). I'm also interested in the Faderport 16, but reviews/vids on this thing are hard to come by.

Anyone care to share thoughts? Pluses, minuses? 2nd generation expected any time soon?

One thing I'm not ecstatic about is the lack of knobs for each channel, having to use the fader for controls clearly meant for a knob/dial. Not having used anything similar before, this is about the only negative I could think of.
Old 1st October 2019
  #2
Deleted c117a9d
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I have a FaderPort 8 and wish I had the 16. The level of integration with S1 is amazing. If it suddenly broke, I would have to go into debt to replace it immediately.

Lack of knobs? Add a Console 1. The combo of C1/FP8or16/S1 is FANTASTIC. This was a game-changer for me!
Old 1st October 2019
  #3
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BezowinZ's Avatar
I want(ed) a Console 1 for a while, but I only own a few Softube plugs. Finding vids & reviews using it with 3rd party plugs are hard to come by.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #4
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doughnuts's Avatar
 

As a faderport 16 owner I would say that the integration with studio one is really well thought out.
Don't let the one pan knob put you off, you won't miss having a per channel knob.
I use mine all the time with S1 and would definitely work a lot slower without it.
The only feature I don't use is the link button.
A good if undocumented feature is the macro button, use that for the channel editor to control channel functions, I discovered that from watching a Marcus Huyskens video where he maps 2 Bypass buttons to one faderport button. Very handy feature
Old 2nd October 2019
  #5
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BezowinZ's Avatar
I don't mind the one pan knob for panning. It's more about effect controls that would work better with knobs. But that alone isn't going to stop me from owning one.

I have been watching some of Marcus Huyskens' vids. Very informative. But despite having the Faderport, he uses his mouse quite often. I assume it's to show what he's doing on screen. Either way, I still don't get to see the Faderport in action.
Old 2nd October 2019
  #6
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ionian's Avatar
It's hit or miss. I have an 8 and I'm happy I didn't drop the $$$ on the 16.

Presonus kinda screwed up the way tracks are laid out on the faderport and haven't figured out how to fix it so that's kind of a major bummer.
The tracks show up on the faderport as ALL the tracks in your project, including hidden ones. There is a workaround where you have a seperate mode in the fader window called "remote" and you have to select it. The bigger bummer is, is that if you're knee deep in a project and decided to activate the "remote" function, the list of tracks hidden and shown DOES NOT reflect the actual list. So now you have to go back and forth between the regular list and the remote one and select/deselect tracks on the remote view to match the regular view.

On top of that, the only way to get it to show up on the faderport is to go into "user" mode which is accessed by hitting shift+all. It kind of takes you out of the moving between all the track views quickly because you have to keep going back to this awkward shift+all mode to get a view on your faderport that reflects your actual view. Of course common sense dictates that the native mode of S1 and the Faderport would be to only display shown tracks and not display hidden ones, but as a user of S1, that Daw does have it's moments that go against common sense so it's not surprising and reinforces my personal opinion that the programmers of S1 don't actually use the product in a professional environment.

There's also the little display screens, which presonus uses a cheap variant of. If you're above the mixer looking down at it, it's fine, but it can get wonky look at them from an angle. I think they added an LCD contrast option to try to help deal with it. The way I have my faderport set up though I always look down on it so the little screens haven't been a problem.

I'd love for a faderport 24 to be introduced, BUT ONLY if presonus can update both S1 and the Faderport to actually operate as a professional environment and make the faderport display only the shown tracks in it's view in "all" mode.

(Seriously how often do you feel the need to mix hidden tracks?)
Old 2nd October 2019
  #7
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BezowinZ's Avatar
I do use templates and end up with unused tracks. I could see hidden tracks being an issue to work around.

I would be looking down on the mixer, so the display screens shouldn't be an issue.

This gives me something specific to look for when searching for review vids. Thanks!
Old 2nd October 2019
  #8
Deleted c117a9d
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ionian, go do some research on how to properly set up the remote mode. Hidden tracks are not an issue at all if you set it up properly.

Using remote mode, I can set up "scenes" like "all drums" "all guitars" "all vox" and such, selecting through them with macros linked to the function keys on the FP.

Of course it is going to take a little up-front work to set it up properly, but that can be vastly minimized using song templates.

Another way you can minimize the impact of a hidden track is to just move it to the very end of the channel list... all hidden channels are at the end so they don't show up inline with the non-hidden ones.
Old 16th October 2019
  #9
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BezowinZ's Avatar
A related question...

Anyone using a Solid State Logic SiX or something similar instead? Any thoughts to share?
Old 26th October 2019
  #10
Deleted c117a9d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
I want(ed) a Console 1 for a while, but I only own a few Softube plugs. Finding vids & reviews using it with 3rd party plugs are hard to come by.
The beauty of this system is you will find you don't NEED as many third-party plugins anymore. C1 goes on EVERYTHING just like a hardware console is there for everything. Sure, once in a great while, you might need some surgical EQ or an 1176 and then there's effects like verb and delay and such... all of which can be assigned to faders, knobs and buttons on the Faderport 8/16.

But in all honesty, in the DAW world, you will never 100% eliminate the need for a mouse and keyboard.
Old 28th October 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
But in all honesty, in the DAW world, you will never 100% eliminate the need for a mouse and keyboard.

WE WILL!
Old 30th October 2019
  #12
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Quetz's Avatar
I don't think you'll eliminate the use of a keyboard but ditching the mouse for most things is possible, however the people designing these controllers obviously don't mix for any lengths of time.

After all these years of people clamouring for better hardware control and integration, Presonus really had a golden opportunity to put it right, and they make a controller with one knob...

Like most people I got tired of waiting for someone to make a product that the consumer has actually been asking for, so I designed my own based on the Mackie Control protocol that has a customised surface script and customised javascript as well as 30 integrated custom macros that bring the whole thing together.
I've been developing it, expanding it then testing it again for months so that I completely understand all the idiosyncratic behaviours of both Studio One and the MC protocol.

I'm about to write a post on it now in this Studio One sub-forum that will give a sneak peek at some of the main features..

I'm pretty sure that those features will tick a lot of the boxes that we haven't been able to tick already using Mackie Control devices.
Old 6th November 2019
  #13
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Heard a rumor that there might be a Faderport extender coming... anyone know anything about that?
Old 7th November 2019
  #14
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Quetz's Avatar
If they put 8 push-button encoders on it that would be a very, VERY good move..
Old 7th November 2019
  #15
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BezowinZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted c117a9d View Post
The beauty of this system is you will find you don't NEED as many third-party plugins anymore. C1 goes on EVERYTHING just like a hardware console is there for everything. Sure, once in a great while, you might need some surgical EQ or an 1176 and then there's effects like verb and delay and such... all of which can be assigned to faders, knobs and buttons on the Faderport 8/16...
Unfortunately for that, I’m not looking to replace my go to plugs.
Old 8th November 2019
  #16
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
Heh... that's what I thought too.
Old 27th November 2019
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
It's hit or miss. I have an 8 and I'm happy I didn't drop the $$$ on the 16.

Presonus kinda screwed up the way tracks are laid out on the faderport and haven't figured out how to fix it so that's kind of a major bummer.
The tracks show up on the faderport as ALL the tracks in your project, including hidden ones. There is a workaround where you have a seperate mode in the fader window called "remote" and you have to select it. The bigger bummer is, is that if you're knee deep in a project and decided to activate the "remote" function, the list of tracks hidden and shown DOES NOT reflect the actual list. So now you have to go back and forth between the regular list and the remote one and select/deselect tracks on the remote view to match the regular view.

On top of that, the only way to get it to show up on the faderport is to go into "user" mode which is accessed by hitting shift+all. It kind of takes you out of the moving between all the track views quickly because you have to keep going back to this awkward shift+all mode to get a view on your faderport that reflects your actual view. Of course common sense dictates that the native mode of S1 and the Faderport would be to only display shown tracks and not display hidden ones, but as a user of S1, that Daw does have it's moments that go against common sense so it's not surprising and reinforces my personal opinion that the programmers of S1 don't actually use the product in a professional environment.

There's also the little display screens, which presonus uses a cheap variant of. If you're above the mixer looking down at it, it's fine, but it can get wonky look at them from an angle. I think they added an LCD contrast option to try to help deal with it. The way I have my faderport set up though I always look down on it so the little screens haven't been a problem.

I'd love for a faderport 24 to be introduced, BUT ONLY if presonus can update both S1 and the Faderport to actually operate as a professional environment and make the faderport display only the shown tracks in it's view in "all" mode.

(Seriously how often do you feel the need to mix hidden tracks?)

Just wondered if you can answer a question i have, as it’s along these lines


I often use kontakt for my drums in Studio One. I usually send it out as multiple outputs within my instrument track in kontakt, so that i can create separate faders and whatnot for each individual drum, but these faders are really just as part of the instrument track.

My question is will Faderport recognise these and allow me to control them on the faderport? Or will it just recognise the one instance of the instrument and not the outputs? - In studio one, it shows all my separate kontakt outputs all in the mixer, but the arrange view doesn’t show them because they’re just outputs from an instrument. So i just wondering which way Faderport would recognise it..

I hope my question is clear. Any help would be great as it might be a deal breaker for buying one.
Old 27th November 2019
  #18
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by warnogs View Post
Just wondered if you can answer a question i have, as it’s along these lines


I often use kontakt for my drums in Studio One. I usually send it out as multiple outputs within my instrument track in kontakt, so that i can create separate faders and whatnot for each individual drum, but these faders are really just as part of the instrument track.

My question is will Faderport recognise these and allow me to control them on the faderport? Or will it just recognise the one instance of the instrument and not the outputs? - In studio one, it shows all my separate kontakt outputs all in the mixer, but the arrange view doesn’t show them because they’re just outputs from an instrument. So i just wondering which way Faderport would recognise it..

I hope my question is clear. Any help would be great as it might be a deal breaker for buying one.
Yeah, anything that's a fader will show up on the faderport (which is my main complaint lol) so even disabled and hidden faders will show up on the faderport!

I've done what you did though, break my drums out to different outputs and they show up as faders in the console and on the faderport.
Old 27th November 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
The beauty of this system is you will find you don't NEED as many third-party plugins anymore. C1 goes on EVERYTHING just like a hardware console is there for everything. Sure, once in a great while, you might need some surgical EQ or an 1176 and then there's effects like verb and delay and such... all of which can be assigned to faders, knobs and buttons on the Faderport 8/16.

But in all honesty, in the DAW world, you will never 100% eliminate the need for a mouse and keyboard.
Is it possible to create consistent plugin maps with the faderport? IE every time you open xyz plugs it's mapped to the controller the same way? I assume you could do this through templates and control link, but it would be even better to me to have mappings that could apply globally.

I have a Console1 and love it- I'm looking at migrating from PT to S1 for some of my work (could be all if they do surround/multi-ch), and one thing I'm eyeballing is C1F vs Faderport 16.
Old 28th November 2019
  #20
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Yeah, anything that's a fader will show up on the faderport (which is my main complaint lol) so even disabled and hidden faders will show up on the faderport!

I've done what you did though, break my drums out to different outputs and they show up as faders in the console and on the faderport.
Once again... you do not understand how to use the FP8/16. Hiding faders is mind-numbingly simple. OMG... you need to press a button and go into a new mode? That's soooo hard to do

As for the other questions... the latest S1 update focused pretty much exclusively on adding big improvements to the S1/FP integration. I have not had the time to investigate it in practice but on paper it looks like there are some major improvements.... like you now can control cue-mixes, expanding how many plugin parameters you can map, other stuff.
Old 28th November 2019
  #21
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
Once again... you do not understand how to use the FP8/16. Hiding faders is mind-numbingly simple. OMG... you need to press a button and go into a new mode? That's soooo hard to do
Lol we get it - you're the kind of person that someone sh!ts in your hat and you say, "Thank you. It fits much better now". You do you, buddy.

If you don't understand why it's a PITA, than what can I say other than get some more experience with S1 and learn how to use it, then come back with an opinion.
Old 30th November 2019
  #22
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
Whatever dude, just tired of your FUD you spread about the FP's.

Oh, and I'll get right on learning how to use S1... I've been meaning to do that for a while now....
Old 30th November 2019
  #23
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Quetz's Avatar
This is why I actually prefer the Mackie Control way of doing things.

No matter what's on the screen, if I want to see only audio tracks on the controller, I hit the audio bank, if I only want to see VCAs, I choose the VCA bank, if I do want to see everything, I choose the global bank, and if I want custom views where any number of different types of tracks are mixed and matched in a viewset, then I just use scenes which I can trigger from the controller.

As for plugin control, I can have access to 8 encoders, 8 faders and 8 pot-press buttons for each plugin which are saved for any instance of that plug.
(This plugin feature is not standard though and is only possible because of custom mapping/scripting).

You can see this in action here
Old 30th November 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
This is why I actually prefer the Mackie Control way of doing things.

No matter what's on the screen, if I want to see only audio tracks on the controller, I hit the audio bank, if I only want to see VCAs, I choose the VCA bank, if I do want to see everything, I choose the global bank, and if I want custom views where any number of different types of tracks are mixed and matched in a viewset, then I just use scenes which I can trigger from the controller.

As for plugin control, I can have access to 8 encoders, 8 faders and 8 pot-press buttons for each plugin which are saved for any instance of that plug.
(This plugin feature is not standard though and is only possible because of custom mapping/scripting).

You can see this in action here
Wow-

Super cool...It's great that the X-touch has meters, scribble strips, 1 knob per channel and extenders.

Can the scribble strips also take on the track colors? Colors for different control groups (IE yellow for eq band 1, blue for band 2 and so on)? Can you also combine multiple plugins in the splitter window for a channel strip mode?

It would be great to have the ability to set up multiple plugins and control them in one controller scene with 16 or 24 pairs of knobs and faders.

Looking really good here, I heard about this in the Console 1 thread...will be following this for sure.
Old 30th November 2019
  #25
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Quetz's Avatar
The scribble strips are RGB, but they don't display colours unless you're using it hooked up to an X series mix unit.
There is a way that it could be done from what I've read but it's complex, and would involved having physical midi cables hooked up as well as the usb connection, and even then it's not straightforward, so I'm not looking to try and incorporate it at the moment.

Shame really, but unless Behringer decide to 'unlock' this feature for normal daw use, it's best to assume that it won't be a feature.

Using the splitter, yes each time you add a plug to a splitter chain it appears as a separate instance in the insert rack, and the hardware controls snap to the correct values when switching between those plugins.

You can't control more than one plugin on one controller scene because only one plugin can be in focus at any one time.
You can take one of your plugs that has a lot of controls and spread it across to an extender though and that config will be saved for any instance of that plugin.
You can only do this for one plugin, and the reason for that is that the extender control addresses are shared with the main unit control addresses.
If I give each extender a unique ID, you will be able to do this for one plugin, but could have it work for a different plug per extender, however you would still have to switch manually (click in the plug gui control window) between those devices.
Also, Studio One doesn't seem to be able to save the state of those device selections when there are various selections made across channels (ie main unit is selected to control a plug on channel 1, extender 1 is selected to control a plug on channel 2, extender 2 controls a plug on channel 3 etc).
When you close a project, it seems to be pot luck which device Studio One sets ALL selections to when you reopen the project.
This is not expected behaviour, and I consider that a bug.

So for now I would say just be content that there are 24 controls available per plug instead of 8, and anything else is a bonus!
Having said that, I will be working tirelessly to explore every avenue to get every bit of enhanced functionality out of these units that I can, and the plugin control aspect is where I will be spending most of my time..
Old 9th April 2020
  #26
Here for the gear
Hey Ryan...just curious if you ever made a decision between the CS1F vs FP. I'm weighing that too. Leaning towards the FP due to the S1 integration and the updates they seem to put out addressing various issues. That said...CS1F seems a bit sturdier/higher quality.
Old 9th April 2020
  #27
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
There is a new "feature" in the FP8 firmware... Shift-touch a fader and it returns to zero dB... that completely breaks my workflow because I use the FP8 in a shift-lock state most of the time. I am not alone in this either. There are a few of us completely frustrated by PreSonus's complete lack of "we don't care" attitude towards this that I am seriously considering selling my FP8 and getting a Fader 1 to go with my Console 1 instead.
Old 9th April 2020
  #28
Here for the gear
Yikes...that sucks. I hope it's something they're working on correcting. I saw another thread where people seemed really happy about the new FP MIDI update.

Is there anything (notwithstanding the new shift issue) the FP8 does with its integration with S1 that the Fader 1 can't accomplish?
Old 9th April 2020
  #29
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Dysanfel's Avatar
I have a FP8. I like its small footprint on my desk. I have only had it for about a month and am still learning it, but I am happy with it so far.
Old 9th April 2020
  #30
Deleted c117a9d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobopalooza View Post
Is there anything (notwithstanding the new shift issue) the FP8 does with its integration with S1 that the Fader 1 can't accomplish?
Oh yeah... tons. It really was designed from the ground-up to integrate with S1 very, very deeply. I've only scratched the surface of what it can do and it can do even more since I purchased it. Don't get me wrong, it's a great product, but I get the sense that I am in the underwhelming minority of "Faderport 8 power users" category and so we are not getting listened to.

But, having said that, there is stuff the Fader 1 does that the FP doesn't, so you just have to pick your feature set and go with your choice. The integration and footprint of F1/C1 together with the plugins looks very appealing to me.

Looking at the videos on the Softube site, I think I would be very happy with the F1 instead. I can see a Fader 1 paired with Console 1 and a single-fader faderport being a very, very power setup in a nice compact footprint. You would get a lot of the FP8/16 functionality that F1 doesn't have using the single FP in that setup.
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