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Thoughts on Faderports?
Old 9th April 2020
  #31
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Quetz's Avatar
The strength of the faderpack for console 1 is in its modelling.

It doesn't, and can't ever come close to a proper daw controller because you need controls - actual physical buttons to press and things to turn which the faderpack doesn't have.

The Console 1 unit itself doesn't come close to fulfilling this role either.

This isn't taking away from Console 1, I own one and won't ever get rid of it, it's an absolutely essential part of my setup.
But I didn't even give the faderpack a second look after seeing what it was.

Where's the plugin control?
Where are the function modes?
Channel views?
LCDs so you can actually see what you're controlling??!

There are a stunning number of people that have a daw controller just for the sake of having some faders sitting there. But they use the mouse for almost everything, only pausing to move a fader every now and again.

What's the point??!!

Look, here's what proper integration looks like:

I have a jogwheel on my device which navigates the timeline as usual, but in plugin mode it can be assigned to any plugin parameter.
If I hold Shift it adjusts clip gain up/down.
If I hold Alt it cycles through tools.
If I hold the Loop button a flick left sets a loop start point and a flick right sets the loop end point.

In other modes I can hold a switch to change channel faders from volume to input gain and to use the encoders and encoder buttons to change input source, output bus, send destination and send/cue pan, channel monitoring, cue position reset, plug and send bbypasses etc plus a host of other functions depending on mode.

This is what a daw controller means in my book.
Not a row of faders to sit there and look pretty.
It shouldn't be a piece of hardware that gets used sometimes in tandem with a mostly mouse-based work approach.
A good daw controller should be a nerve centre that makes the mouse redundant in as many ways as possible.

The Faderport series goes a long way and has some cool integration features, but no encoder per channel?
Really?
Huge Fail.

Before I started customising devices I had C1 and a Faderport classic and it was an awesome combination.
That original faderport is still to date the most useful piece of hardware that PreSonus have ever made in terms of fundamental daw control.
Why more useful than a Faderport8 or 16?
Because it has channel follow.
Who on earth wants to bank several times just to get hands on a fader or control?
That kind of thing kills off and stifles workflow.
It was one of the very first things I added to my customisation ( I have a switch to flick between selected channel fader and master out fader).
It's indispensable for getting any kind of proper grip on session nav.

The extended Faderport series have some nice features but there is too much stuff that was excluded/not implemented well in both the hardware and the software (eg mute and solo buttons side-by-side ).
Considering that this is the newest controller on the market and made for their own software, they really should have taken more time over it and included functions that would have made customisation unnecessary.

All those little functions that we use all the time should be on any hardware surface - if someone like me with zero experience can re-imagine a control surface and pack it full of features, why can't the company that makes the software???
Old 10th April 2020
  #32
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
The strength of the faderpack for console 1 is in its modelling.

It doesn't, and can't ever come close to a proper daw controller because you need controls - actual physical buttons to press and things to turn which the faderpack doesn't have.

The Console 1 unit itself doesn't come close to fulfilling this role either.

This isn't taking away from Console 1, I own one and won't ever get rid of it, it's an absolutely essential part of my setup.
But I didn't even give the faderpack a second look after seeing what it was.

Where's the plugin control?
Where are the function modes?
Channel views?
LCDs so you can actually see what you're controlling??!

There are a stunning number of people that have a daw controller just for the sake of having some faders sitting there. But they use the mouse for almost everything, only pausing to move a fader every now and again.

What's the point??!!

Look, here's what proper integration looks like:

I have a jogwheel on my device which navigates the timeline as usual, but in plugin mode it can be assigned to any plugin parameter.
If I hold Shift it adjusts clip gain up/down.
If I hold Alt it cycles through tools.
If I hold the Loop button a flick left sets a loop start point and a flick right sets the loop end point.

In other modes I can hold a switch to change channel faders from volume to input gain and to use the encoders and encoder buttons to change input source, output bus, send destination and send/cue pan, channel monitoring, cue position reset, plug and send bbypasses etc plus a host of other functions depending on mode.

This is what a daw controller means in my book.
Not a row of faders to sit there and look pretty.
It shouldn't be a piece of hardware that gets used sometimes in tandem with a mostly mouse-based work approach.
A good daw controller should be a nerve centre that makes the mouse redundant in as many ways as possible.

The Faderport series goes a long way and has some cool integration features, but no encoder per channel?
Really?
Huge Fail.

Before I started customising devices I had C1 and a Faderport classic and it was an awesome combination.
That original faderport is still to date the most useful piece of hardware that PreSonus have ever made in terms of fundamental daw control.
Why more useful than a Faderport8 or 16?
Because it has channel follow.
Who on earth wants to bank several times just to get hands on a fader or control?
That kind of thing kills off and stifles workflow.
It was one of the very first things I added to my customisation ( I have a switch to flick between selected channel fader and master out fader).
It's indispensable for getting any kind of proper grip on session nav.

The extended Faderport series have some nice features but there is too much stuff that was excluded/not implemented well in both the hardware and the software (eg mute and solo buttons side-by-side ).
Considering that this is the newest controller on the market and made for their own software, they really should have taken more time over it and included functions that would have made customisation unnecessary.

All those little functions that we use all the time should be on any hardware surface - if someone like me with zero experience can re-imagine a control surface and pack it full of features, why can't the company that makes the software???
Thanks for the reply and feedback on your QMAP product. Looks very interesting. I understand it's new...has there been any customer feedback? Would this be susceptible to being rendered non-usable by future S1 software updates or changes?

I'm actually relatively new to the mixing/recording world...but love the idea of getting comfortable with a tactile process in a space efficient way. Is your workflow here fairly generalizable and efficient (I know lots of people work in different ways)?

Sorry for all the questions...this does seem like a "one stop shop" kind of thing when it comes to DAW control...which appeals to me. Just want to cover my bases. Thanks!

Last edited by Bobopalooza; 10th April 2020 at 12:23 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 10th April 2020
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobopalooza View Post
Hey Ryan...just curious if you ever made a decision between the CS1F vs FP. I'm weighing that too. Leaning towards the FP due to the S1 integration and the updates they seem to put out addressing various issues. That said...CS1F seems a bit sturdier/higher quality.
I'm using Quetz' Qmap, plus Console 1.

It ROCKS.

I've owned Digi pro control, C24, Avid control, mix, transport and dock (in various configurations), used the S3 and D-Command.

Qmap (X touch plus Extender) + Console 1 on Studio One is by far the best of any of those that I've used.

I'm still working out a couple kinks on my setup with Matt, but it looks like he's even going to figure out a way to implement one of my favorite features from the Avid transport (which actually doesn't work on the Dock), which is clip gain on the Jog wheel.

My only real gripe with the hardware would be that the x touch units are taller than they need to be, but I have a way to cut them down with the tool coming on monday.
Old 10th April 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I'm using Quetz' Qmap, plus Console 1.

It ROCKS.

I've owned Digi pro control, C24, Avid control, mix, transport and dock (in various configurations), used the S3 and D-Command.

Qmap (X touch plus Extender) + Console 1 on Studio One is by far the best of any of those that I've used.

I'm still working out a couple kinks on my setup with Matt, but it looks like he's even going to figure out a way to implement one of my favorite features from the Avid transport (which actually doesn't work on the Dock), which is clip gain on the Jog wheel.

My only real gripe with the hardware would be that the x touch units are taller than they need to be, but I have a way to cut them down with the tool coming on monday.
Thanks Ryan...great to hear. I assume most of your plugin tweaking happens in the CS1 and the QMAP controls allow you to do everything else (navigation, scenes, automation, etc.) without having to use the mouse too much? Where do you set your CS1 relative to the XTouch?
Old 10th April 2020
  #35
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Quetz's Avatar
Thanks for the comments Ryan!

Very much appreciated and I'm super flattered to have it compared so favourably with those other systems.

I don't know if you saw my email but your request has been fulfilled

You'll need to use a midi filter patch that I'll help you sort out that not only gives you the clip gain control you wanted (using shift), but adds tool selection using Alt as well (plus set loop start/end when holding the loop button!).

@ Bobopalooza - to answer your question about plugin control, one of the big advantages of using Qmap is that you have a much bigger set of controls for plugins than any normal daw controller.
Like Ryan I am also a Console 1 user and it is indeed a dream combo for hands-on control.

Console 1 only gives you plugin control if you unhook it as a daw channel strip controller, which is pointless, as that's where it's strength is, and where all the modelling takes place.

QMap does all the heavy lifting in terms of session, track and channel nav/functionality, mode switching, plugin control etc whereas Console 1 complements it as a dedicated modelled channel strip (especially in S1 where there is no native built-in channel strip in the softmixer for eq, gate, comp etc).

Staying on the subject of plugin control, usually you are given 8 encoders as 8 individual plugin controls and that's it.
With QMap, you have the 8 encoders, 8 encoder buttons, the jogwheel, 8 faders, 9th fader and 8 more buttons all available for plugin control.
Quite a substantial difference and really does change the game in terms of workflow.

If you have an extender then you can effectively double up on those if you're willing to have midi-ox or MidiPipe running in the background (they don't affect computer performance so no biggie).

I've tried to make it as useful as possible to people no matter what kind of session they're running - efficiency was the key aim.
I hated having to pick up a mouse every 5 seconds because normal controllers were just too basic and unimaginative in their implementations.

People do work in different ways, but the features on Qmap were created/included to benefit everybody, no matter their working style.

Eg Who doesn't want expanded plugin control?
Who doesn't want clip gain to hand, or input gain for that matter, or instant plug inserts without the need for menus?
If you select Send mode, wouldn't you expect to have send pan immediately available?
I certainly would/did.

So QMap is not re-designing the wheel, it's basically putting everything in place that should have been on every daw controller from day one.
Old 10th April 2020
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobopalooza View Post
Thanks Ryan...great to hear. I assume most of your plugin tweaking happens in the CS1 and the QMAP controls allow you to do everything else (navigation, scenes, automation, etc.) without having to use the mouse too much? Where do you set your CS1 relative to the XTouch?
Right now I have my C1 setup to the right side of the x-touch, but I'm working on getting it setup behind the X, tilted towards me- which shouldn't be too hard (the whole setup has a little more to it, I'll post a pic when it's sorted).

And yeah the plugin mapping on qmap combined with C1 is awesome.

For me, controllers are about RSI mitigation, but hopefully also serve a higher purpose too- which is different types of brain engagement. The C1 is the most right-brained DAW tool I've used. It's like playing an instrument. Once you learn it it becomes like an acoustic guitar that's just sitting there asking to be played. To extend that metaphor, it sacrifices all the knobs, buttons and switches that come with a complicated e guitar, pedal board and amp rig, and by doing so limits your thinking to just the elements that you can control.

Qmap/Xtouch then is more center brained, which is IMO the expected nature of a good control surface. It gives you enough tactile interaction to get away from the very technical nature of the daw, but you are adding a lot more parameters to control, and the requisite paging, function swapping etc that goes with that. It still gives you a lot of opportunity to think differently than I would with a mouse and keyboard, but it's more complicated and depth than the acoustic guitar so to speak.

Then of course you still have the DAW side of things...I never liked the ergonomics of controllers that try to replace the daw, like D-command or I suspect even S4, S6. I want it compact enough that I can have great keyboard/mouse ergonomics and still go down that purely left-brained side when that's what's needed.
Old 10th April 2020
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Right now I have my C1 setup to the right side of the x-touch, but I'm working on getting it setup behind the X, tilted towards me- which shouldn't be too hard (the whole setup has a little more to it, I'll post a pic when it's sorted).

And yeah the plugin mapping on qmap combined with C1 is awesome.

For me, controllers are about RSI mitigation, but hopefully also serve a higher purpose too- which is different types of brain engagement. The C1 is the most right-brained DAW tool I've used. It's like playing an instrument. Once you learn it it becomes like an acoustic guitar that's just sitting there asking to be played. To extend that metaphor, it sacrifices all the knobs, buttons and switches that come with a complicated e guitar, pedal board and amp rig, and by doing so limits your thinking to just the elements that you can control.

Qmap/Xtouch then is more center brained, which is IMO the expected nature of a good control surface. It gives you enough tactile interaction to get away from the very technical nature of the daw, but you are adding a lot more parameters to control, and the requisite paging, function swapping etc that goes with that. It still gives you a lot of opportunity to think differently than I would with a mouse and keyboard, but it's more complicated and depth than the acoustic guitar so to speak.

Then of course you still have the DAW side of things...I never liked the ergonomics of controllers that try to replace the daw, like D-command or I suspect even S4, S6. I want it compact enough that I can have great keyboard/mouse ergonomics and still go down that purely left-brained side when that's what's needed.
I appreciate your analogies, Ryan. Great points. Were you able to learn and integrate the QMAP/XTouch workflow to where it was second nature fairly quickly? In particular, I'm thinking about having 32+ control knobs/buttons/faders for plugins and feeling like it might be tough to remember what does what and use intuitively in the moment. Of course, I'd imagine the more you do it the easier it gets.

I'm also curious if it plays nice with other hardware (I have a Presonus Atom with some control functionality...would there be any conflict within S1 between the devices?).

I look forward to seeing a picture of your set up!
Old 10th April 2020
  #38
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Quetz's Avatar
Hi there,

I don't want to answer questions directed towards Ryan, but thought I should say something about the plugin control.

You have complete freedom when assigning controls, so you can choose layouts that make sense to you, which makes them easy to remember, but you're not obliged to remember because the device LCDs show you what parameter and value is assigned to each control.

Ok so how do 8 LCDs show names and values for all the controls?
Very simply, when you're in plugin mode, you're shown the encoder assignments by default, if you press flip you'll see the fader assignments, and if you press display mode you'll see the buttons.
All this info is also shown on the on-screen display.

In real usage though, controls are easy to set in logical ways, and if you're consistent then it all becomes second nature very quickly.
For example if a plug has an input and output gain I always put those on fader 1 and 9 respectively.
For EQs the band frequencies go on the encoders and the corresponding band gain on the faders etc.

So you'll always have a visual aid with the LCDs and OSD, but before long you won't need to look.

As for the thing about using other devices, sure there's no problem.
You can't use both to control the same plugin at the same time, but that's an S1 limitation, and not something you'd need to do anyway tbh.
Old 10th April 2020
  #39
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Hi there,

I don't want to answer questions directed towards Ryan, but thought I should say something about the plugin control.

You have complete freedom when assigning controls, so you can choose layouts that make sense to you, which makes them easy to remember, but you're not obliged to remember because the device LCDs show you what parameter and value is assigned to each control.

Ok so how do 8 LCDs show names and values for all the controls?
Very simply, when you're in plugin mode, you're shown the encoder assignments by default, if you press flip you'll see the fader assignments, and if you press display mode you'll see the buttons.
All this info is also shown on the on-screen display.

In real usage though, controls are easy to set in logical ways, and if you're consistent then it all becomes second nature very quickly.
For example if a plug has an input and output gain I always put those on fader 1 and 9 respectively.
For EQs the band frequencies go on the encoders and the corresponding band gain on the faders etc.

So you'll always have a visual aid with the LCDs and OSD, but before long you won't need to look.

As for the thing about using other devices, sure there's no problem.
You can't use both to control the same plugin at the same time, but that's an S1 limitation, and not something you'd need to do anyway tbh.
Thanks Quetz! Good points all around and nice to know it's simple to see the LCD names while adjusting to the new plugin workflow. Very cool.
Old 11th April 2020
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobopalooza View Post
I appreciate your analogies, Ryan. Great points. Were you able to learn and integrate the QMAP/XTouch workflow to where it was second nature fairly quickly? In particular, I'm thinking about having 32+ control knobs/buttons/faders for plugins and feeling like it might be tough to remember what does what and use intuitively in the moment. Of course, I'd imagine the more you do it the easier it gets.

I'm also curious if it plays nice with other hardware (I have a Presonus Atom with some control functionality...would there be any conflict within S1 between the devices?).

I look forward to seeing a picture of your set up!
I would say yes and no-ish, but not by any fault of qmap. I (very lucky to have) one client that will book me 40+ hrs a week during all this provided the rear studio is locked out for him. So I've been learning it mostly while working. To that end, I'm just adding a few control assignments at a time, which are the ones I need as I go.

I think this is actually a good approach because ideally I want to make most plugins with similar parameters mapped the same way. So this approach gives me the chance to figure out how I want to map them as I go.

So far so good with other controllers here, I only have a couple knobs on my A88 keyboard that I've mapped previously, but there doesn't seem to be any issues there. Just make sure you select the right controller in the orange box...
Old 12th April 2020
  #41
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That's a good point - because S1 only allows one device active at once, you need to select the device in the little dropdown at top right of the plug GUI.


Speaking of only having one device, I just posted an update in the 'official' thread (I need to make a new one as that old one can be misleading if you don't read it all the way to the end as loads of stuff was added late on!)

I'll add it here as well. Shows what the new OSD will look like with the extender update (click images to see large version).
It needs a bit of tidying up and the colours are always up for debate!

1. How it looks in any mode other than Plugin Mode (Balance Mode shown):



2. When holding shift to show the extra trigger slots (same applies when holding any button that brings up user slots):



3. And how it changes/looks when in Plugin Mode (encoders shown by default):



4. When in Plugin Mode and Flipped, which brings the fader assignments and values up:


The encoder button params are always shown in green, but pressing Display Mode when in Plugin Mode puts the encoder button params and their values up.

For the extra Jogwheel functions I've currently got Clip Gain when holding shift, tool selection when holding Alt (might change this as tools are easily selected quickly with the computer KB - Ryan suggested a midi transform function which is a good idea), and as Set Loop Start/End commands are already on Alt + Bank Left/Right, I settled on Shift Loop Back/Forwards when turning the jogwheel with the Loop button pressed.

I guess actually I could have those extra Jogwheel actions trigger user-definable commands/macros instead, and just leave the ones I've mentioned set as the defaults which can be changed.
Old 14th April 2020
  #42
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Post FP8

I have the FP8. If I had it to do over again, I would get the single FP V2.

I have one main irritation with the FP 8/16:

When I select a track that is outside of the bank range of 8 in S1, it will not automatically select it on the FP. You have to push the knob to have it switch banks.

I know this can be addressed in a firmware update, and it is mentioned on the PS forum but hasn't been addressed yet. I've gone so far as to list my FP on Ebay and Craigslist.

Yes, it annoys me that much.

https://youtu.be/sLKtHu7bDKA

Good luck!
Old 14th April 2020
  #43
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The answer is not to have to select channels in the softmixer.

With the FP 8/16 you have to because you can't latch the softmixer to the controller, so banking on the controller doesn't force the softmixer to follow along.

I fixed that for my map because I agree, it's kind of a deal-breaker not to have that.

The other aspect of it, is that on the FP 8/16, you don't have any option to have a fader following the selected channel, like you get on a FP classic or FP 2.
I added that to mine too as it is essential for a nice fluid workflow, especially for writing or updating automation quickly without faffing around hunting for channels.

I really should make some hardware..
Old 18th April 2020
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
The answer is not to have to select channels in the softmixer.

With the FP 8/16 you have to because you can't latch the softmixer to the controller, so banking on the controller doesn't force the softmixer to follow along.

I fixed that for my map because I agree, it's kind of a deal-breaker not to have that.

The other aspect of it, is that on the FP 8/16, you don't have any option to have a fader following the selected channel, like you get on a FP classic or FP 2.
I added that to mine too as it is essential for a nice fluid workflow, especially for writing or updating automation quickly without faffing around hunting for channels.

I really should make some hardware..
With your software one needs a macki compatible controller correct?
Old 19th April 2020
  #45
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Not necessarily.
I could make Studio One think my Launchkey is a Mackie device, for example, so I could make one off custom maps for any device, BUT..

a) Plugin control/selected channel follow is pointless without motorised faders (for devices that have faders).

b) You need a decent button count to get enough functionality for it to be worthwhile.

Also, you'd always need a midi translator running in the background.

MC devices are best because they cover all the bases, but they're not all equal.
The Mackie brand devices (and the x-touch) are best because they have a large control count.
Qcon Pro X is next best, but I don't like the way Icon lock some controls in the firmware so you can't assign everything how you want.
Plus they missed a trick by having that nice flip up display but didn't separate the LCDs.

The Faderport 8/16 units are good and they have some cool features for sure, but I feel they made some fundamental design errors (where are the encoders??!!!).

I could modify those units but I don't want to tread on PreSonus' toes. I appreciate that they allow users to experiment and modify.
I believe it's the only daw other than Reaper that does (and Reason, actually).

Of those I think S1 is the most fluid but I'm biased as I feel very much at home in S1.

The other thing is it's not practical/economical to make physical overlays for every device so you have to pick a few and go with it.

Although I think the X-touch is the best option in terms of control count and displays, I know people often aren't comfortable with buying from them.

I also feel that Softube kind of squandered an opportunity (as did PreSonus) because users have been shouting for what they want for years and neither of them delivered (maybe unfair to bring Softube up as it's not supposed to be a daw controller in that sense but still..)

PreSonus came damn close but it's their daw so they should have nailed it.
So ideally I would bring my own hardware to market and just do it my own way.

Maybe I should crowdfund - dunno.
Old 19th April 2020
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
I also feel that Softube kind of squandered an opportunity (as did PreSonus) because users have been shouting for what they want for years and neither of them delivered (maybe unfair to bring Softube up as it's not supposed to be a daw controller in that sense but still..)
It's surprising in many ways that Presonus missed the mark. Basically it seems that what most of us want is already pretty close to a studiolive, or other good digital mixer, but for a daw. Faders, meters, scribblestrips and a well designed fat channel section for auxes and plugins- but all in a footprint that is as small as possible.

If I could make my ideal hardware it would pretty close to the C1 C1F, but with RGB scribble strips, and a master section with more buttons and stream deck style buttons, a jog wheel and ~8 additional encoders (with rgb scribble strips) that could be toggled between select plugin assignments and sends. Oh and it would be cool to have dedicated GR meters on each fader.
Old 19th April 2020
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Not necessarily.
I could make Studio One think my Launchkey is a Mackie device, for example, so I could make one off custom maps for any device, BUT..

a) Plugin control/selected channel follow is pointless without motorised faders (for devices that have faders).

b) You need a decent button count to get enough functionality for it to be worthwhile.

Also, you'd always need a midi translator running in the background.

MC devices are best because they cover all the bases, but they're not all equal.
The Mackie brand devices (and the x-touch) are best because they have a large control count.
Qcon Pro X is next best, but I don't like the way Icon lock some controls in the firmware so you can't assign everything how you want.
Plus they missed a trick by having that nice flip up display but didn't separate the LCDs.

The Faderport 8/16 units are good and they have some cool features for sure, but I feel they made some fundamental design errors (where are the encoders??!!!).

I could modify those units but I don't want to tread on PreSonus' toes. I appreciate that they allow users to experiment and modify.
I believe it's the only daw other than Reaper that does (and Reason, actually).

Of those I think S1 is the most fluid but I'm biased as I feel very much at home in S1.

The other thing is it's not practical/economical to make physical overlays for every device so you have to pick a few and go with it.

Although I think the X-touch is the best option in terms of control count and displays, I know people often aren't comfortable with buying from them.

I also feel that Softube kind of squandered an opportunity (as did PreSonus) because users have been shouting for what they want for years and neither of them delivered (maybe unfair to bring Softube up as it's not supposed to be a daw controller in that sense but still..)

PreSonus came damn close but it's their daw so they should have nailed it.
So ideally I would bring my own hardware to market and just do it my own way.

Maybe I should crowdfund - dunno.
Does your software/map allow auto banking if you click on any track/channel like the FP classic?
Old 19th April 2020
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sambosun View Post
Does your software/map allow auto banking if you click on any track/channel like the FP classic?
The 9th fader can be toggled between following the selected track, and the master fader. Also there is a latch mode where the whole surface follows the screen and vice versa.
Old 20th April 2020
  #49
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Quetz's Avatar
Hi @ sambosun , ok so what's happening with the 1-fader FPorts is that you have bank/channel L/R buttons and the fader is set to follow the selected channel as you know.
The console doesn't follow along with the banking buttons though. Clicking on any channel in the console will put that channel on the fader.

QMap does exactly the same thing with the 9th fader set to selected channel but, the added advantage is that you can latch the console to the bank/chan L/R buttons which keeps screen and controller in sync.

If a channel is 'out of view' of the controller and you click it in the console, the controllers will not jump to that channel.
However if a chan is out of view of the console and you select it on the controller, the console will jump to it.

The idea then is to always have the Inspector open and ditch the console from the screen entirely using the controller and not the mouse to navigate channels, knowing your selected channel is always there on the 9th fader.
The Inspector gives you your overview of the selected channel on-screen and there is no information in the console that you can't find in the Inspector.*
It's better aesthetically and functionally to have the thin strip with all channel and event info than a condensed console that takes up more space.

If you follow the setup instructions then every type of track and channel will appear in the Inspector which keeps things organised and reliable.
That setup was envisioned from the beginning, it's a holistic approach really, and you'll get the most out of the 'system' if you have things laid out that way.

*Cue mix info doesn't show up in the Inspector but tbh all the cue controls are on the hardware in Cue Mode so you don't really need it.
Old 20th April 2020
  #50
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I honestly don't see the "missing encoders" to be that big of an issue. I've never really wished they were on every channel. It's easy enough to have my right hand selecting the channel and the left on the encoder.

In my opinion, it was a smart choice to keep the cost down and make the unit within the budget range of more customers.
Old 21st April 2020
  #51
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
I honestly don't see the "missing encoders" to be that big of an issue. I've never really wished they were on every channel. It's easy enough to have my right hand selecting the channel and the left on the encoder.

In my opinion, it was a smart choice to keep the cost down and make the unit within the budget range of more customers.
I could see that, but X-touch and Faderports are basically the same price. The x-touch has more buttons, rotary encoders (with the pretty smart triangle LED thing to indicate panned center) and meters...
Old 21st April 2020
  #52
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
It's also made by a company that has an incredibly horrible reputation for making cheap products. Cheap as in corner cutting, low quality components, poor reliability.

And no, they have not done anything recently to change my perception of that.
Old 21st April 2020
  #53
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Quetz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
I honestly don't see the "missing encoders" to be that big of an issue. I've never really wished they were on every channel. It's easy enough to have my right hand selecting the channel and the left on the encoder.

In my opinion, it was a smart choice to keep the cost down and make the unit within the budget range of more customers.
By not having encoders you lose them as plugin controls.
Because on the other devices the encoders also have buttons built-in, by having then you gain two extra discrete controls for every mode, as well as adding 8 rotaries and 8 buttons for plugin control (on top of the 9 faders, jogwheel and 8 other buttons).

That step up on plugin control is a massive gain.

On a faderport 8/16 you have to select a channel to adjust basic parameters, which means it's not that much more useful as a 'console' than a Faderport classic.

If you wanted to adjust send pan or switch from post to pre-fade send for example you have to move to the mouse, every time.

With the encoders/encoder buttons available, I could build those commands directly into send mode.
Same with commands like cue pan and cue lock for cue mode - stands to reason that more controls equate to more functionality.
So it's not just pan that you're losing, it's everything you could have done with an extra pot and button per channel.
Old 21st April 2020
  #54
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
Well I have Console 1 for all of that.

Everyone has their own opinion. This is just mine out of a thousand or so others... Behringer has a long uphill battle to gain a spot in my studio.
Old 22nd April 2020
  #55
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Quetz's Avatar
I have a console 1 too, it's awesome, but it's not the same thing.
It doesn't have modes or layers so you can't assign or program controls to the depth that you can with an MC mod.
It doesn't have displays so you have to look at the screen to see what you're controlling.
Behringer isn't the only manufacturer, I get it that people have a problem with them.
Mackie and icon devices have 8 encoders too.
As does pretty much every other device designed as a daw controller.
Old 23rd April 2020
  #56
Deleted c117a9d
Guest
lol ok, I get it. I'm a fool for being extremely happy with my C1 and FP8 combo.

Checking out now...
Old 23rd April 2020
  #57
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Quetz's Avatar


I don't agree with what you say, and put forward my reasons why.
You don't need to get defensive because of an opposing point of view, and no need to put words in my mouth either.
I don't think you're a fool, I just think there are better workflows.

I'm not going to agree with you just to be polite.
Old 25th April 2020
  #58
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpsbb View Post
It's also made by a company that has an incredibly horrible reputation for making cheap products. Cheap as in corner cutting, low quality components, poor reliability.

And no, they have not done anything recently to change my perception of that.
Meh, when it comes to robot soldered SMD/IC gear that is made in China, I don't see a big difference between Presonus, Mackie, Behringer, Avid and so on. Anecdotally I've come across more StudioLive's with dead mic pres or other issues than X32's. I think it's pretty safe to say that the X32 has proved its mettle (studiolive too, they're both good considering what they are).

My space is multi-op commercial studio that stays busy with a lot of different engineers. That environment is much harder on gear than a home studio. I have no issues with Behringer gear as long as the use is realistic, and in fact they often impress me with serviceability considering the throw away nature of this whole market segment. Yeah it's no Avedis or Josephson where you could just mail it in and they fix it at no cost, but neither is Presonus.

IE on a controller, the motor faders are by far the most likely to fail. No issues finding the MF100T replacements (I haven't had any issues yet). After a quick search, I didn't see replacements for the faderports (maybe there are though)...OTOH parts for avid controllers are hard to find and ridiculously overpriced.

In any case, as a fan of Studio One, IMO nothing could be better than competition heating up. And if any manufacture is in a position to make an even better controller for S1, it's Presonus.
Old 6th May 2020
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
I've just been looking at their IO 24C, very cool, very simple idea that should do very well indeed - the Faderport classic was always (imo) one of their very best hardware products and had a better workflow than most larger format daw controllers that didn't follow the selected channel.
Old 14th May 2020
  #60
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bambamboom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted c117a9d View Post
It's also made by a company that has an incredibly horrible reputation for making cheap products. Cheap as in corner cutting, low quality components, poor reliability.

And no, they have not done anything recently to change my perception of that.
Actually, Behringer products have one of the lowest failure rates in the industry. What is surprising is they are in fact showing lower failure percentages than many of their much more expensive competitors.

It has to be very low for them to be profitable given that they compete on price. Simple economics, failures/warranty service are extremely expensive to a low margin company. The main reason you hear of more issue about their gear is simply because of their huge sales volume in the market vs some of the smaller players.

Nobody can argue that they did some very questionable things years ago, but they are generally a better (not perfect) corporate citizen now, and actually invest a lot in R&D.

I felt like you years ago, but I have had zero issues with any of the recent products I have used, and they have a good warranty. I'm using the XTouch with S1 and it's been rock solid. I compared to the Faderport and it has a lot more features, especially with QMap.
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