The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
PreSonus Studio One vs other DAWs
Old 10th August 2019
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
My fault; right-click on the name of the plug-in there in the channel strip.
LOL. I can't figure it out

There are definitely a few things in S1 that aren't intuitive to me
Old 10th August 2019
  #122
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
LOL. I can't figure it out
Ok try this:
From the mixer , window bring up Spectrum Meter on a tack. Activate it but close the plug-in window for it. Then, where the name of the plug-in is in channel strip, hover over that with your mouse. Right-click and you should see 'expand.' Choose that and it will embed it. Follow the same process but choose 'collapse' and it will go away.


I'm not sure they all support this "mini mode" but all or most all the Presonus plugs do, including the channel strip extensions.
Old 10th August 2019
  #123
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
Problem here is that it's confusing. time-consuming, and very hard to get it to sound the same without altering the routing of tracks in the project.

First, the master buss effects have to be disabled or else they get added again once the bounce is imported. Second, soloing just the tracks one wants doesn't quite work the same; the FX channels have to be soloed also. That has the tendency to make all the others using it become active. So it pretty much means going through manually and muting everything but the grouped tracks and the effects channels. It's tediously manual...
I don't have any solutions for the freezing, mainly because I always run more UAD plugs than native in a session so the dsp is doing much of the heavy lifting plus I use Console 1 which is very cpu efficient.
It's a shame that when using layers you can't have a unique fx chain per layer as that would solve your problem.

About the quoted part though, there are two things here I think you might be missing.

Regarding the master fx and frozen/bounced tracks.
I can't recommend enough the concept of using a sub/aux master channel before the Main.
This makes so many things possible.
Do you not use reference tracks in a mix project for example?
Same concept as your issue here, if I solo a reference track, I don't want it going through the mixbus (master) effects obviously, just as you don't want your frozen tracks going through it as they'll be getting those master fx twice, in effect.
The solution in both cases is to make sure that your mixbus isn't your master output.
So for every session, you create an aux master by default.
Let's just call it the mixbus.
Everything runs to this mixbus, which in turn runs to the master out, which is kept completely clean (I have the very excellent T-Tracks metering plug on mine and that's it).
When you bounce/freeze you run that track to the master out, where it's summed with the mixbus but avoids the mixbus processing.
That neatly solves the problem and once you integrate that workflow/include the mixbus/aux master in your templates it becomes second nature.
That is simplifying the issue though because the common use case for mixbus processing is compression and eq whose overall impact will change as the mix develops.

If you freeze a track with mix comp and eq embedded at 2pm, then route it to the clean master, by 5pm because the other tracks have evolved, the embedded mixbus fx no longer make sense holistically.
So taking the idea further, you can have an Instrument bus which all tracks route to, which in turn feeds the mixbus with its comp and eq, which in turn feeds the master.
Now you have complete flexibility and everything remains glued the way it should no matter how things develop.

Now about the soloing - you've fallen into the trap here of not differentiating between tracks in the arrange window and channels in the console.

Your fx channels should all be set to solo-safe by default.
If you solo the channels, then yes you'll get that fx 'bleed', but you won't if you solo the tracks.
Old 10th August 2019
  #124
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
I don't have any solutions for the freezing, mainly because I always run more UAD plugs than native in a session so the dsp is doing much of the heavy lifting plus I use Console 1 which is very cpu efficient.
It's a shame that when using layers you can't have a unique fx chain per layer as that would solve your problem.

About the quoted part though, there are two things here I think you might be missing.

Regarding the master fx and frozen/bounced tracks.
I can't recommend enough the concept of using a sub/aux master channel before the Main.
This makes so many things possible.
Do you not use reference tracks in a mix project for example?
Same concept as your issue here, if I solo a reference track, I don't want it going through the mixbus (master) effects obviously, just as you don't want your frozen tracks going through it as they'll be getting those master fx twice, in effect.
The solution in both cases is to make sure that your mixbus isn't your master output.
So for every session, you create an aux master by default.
Let's just call it the mixbus.
Everything runs to this mixbus, which in turn runs to the master out, which is kept completely clean (I have the very excellent T-Tracks metering plug on mine and that's it).
When you bounce/freeze you run that track to the master out, where it's summed with the mixbus but avoids the mixbus processing.
That neatly solves the problem and once you integrate that workflow/include the mixbus/aux master in your templates it becomes second nature.
That is simplifying the issue though because the common use case for mixbus processing is compression and eq whose overall impact will change as the mix develops.

If you freeze a track with mix comp and eq embedded at 2pm, then route it to the clean master, by 5pm because the other tracks have evolved, the embedded mixbus fx no longer make sense holistically.
So taking the idea further, you can have an Instrument bus which all tracks route to, which in turn feeds the mixbus with its comp and eq, which in turn feeds the master.
Now you have complete flexibility and everything remains glued the way it should no matter how things develop.

Now about the soloing - you've fallen into the trap here of not differentiating between tracks in the arrange window and channels in the console.

Your fx channels should all be set to solo-safe by default.
If you solo the channels, then yes you'll get that fx 'bleed', but you won't if you solo the tracks.
Yep, I keep a separate buss channel with the "glue" like you suggested. Mostly just because I don't want the cymbals or reverbs impacted. I might have a teeny bit on the main buss .Just depends on the song.

I agree about the individual processing being preferable. Most of my "heavy lifting" is done at the track level. I can still get into CPU trouble with busses if I'm not careful though.

I think I get what you're saying about having a separate instrument buss, but not sure. In that situation, are you saying both instrument and mix buss would have compression/eq but that the instrument buss would alone would have less than what was previously applied (and presumably worked) earlier on? I've experimented with having stages of buss compression , with some going to the first buss and that into the second, and others just going into the second directly. I usually find it sounds better just to have separate group tracks route out to a clean (or nearly clean master).


As far as soloing, I guess what I was getting at is: I would want to keep the reverb sends on for that track before bouncing. Soloing the track alone doesn't do that, and activating the send alongside that tends to activate it for the other tracks also. I suppose I could just not include the sends in the bounce, but that gets a bit confusing/messy if the group buss and track both have effects sends. I think this where one can click on the 'S' of the effects channel to get a different behavior maybe? To be honest, I never really got how that worked or took the time to investigate.

At any rate, none of this seems insurmountable, really. It just would make it easier and more convenient to have Samplitude-style freezing capability, IMO.
Old 10th August 2019
  #125
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
How you want to actually apply processing to your tracks/groups/busses etc is entirely up to you and what everything needs in context, the routing examples are purely to give you avenues to be able to freeze stuff and have it summed without going through the same processing twice, or even thrice!

If you have comp and eq on your master out then you can't avoid that without disabling, as you mentioned, which is unworkable.
If you apply any group or Mix processing just use main buses before the Main, that's it.
You can have as many aux masters as you like, that was the gist of the 'instrument' bus.

And yes, you must have the fx channels solo safe, it's set that way by default!
(Solo button is constant green).
Have you been turning it off when you create fx return channels?
Go and shift-click the solo button on all your fx channels then it'll work the way you want (but remember to solo tracks not channels).
The reason it works that way is if you solo the channels, then the fx returns will solo, but because other tracks that also use those returns aren't muted, then you'll hear their return as well, obvs.
Old 10th August 2019
  #126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
Ok try this:
From the mixer , window bring up Spectrum Meter on a tack. Activate it but close the plug-in window for it. Then, where the name of the plug-in is in channel strip, hover over that with your mouse. Right-click and you should see 'expand.' Choose that and it will embed it. Follow the same process but choose 'collapse' and it will go away.


I'm not sure they all support this "mini mode" but all or most all the Presonus plugs do, including the channel strip extensions.
Ahh, I see it. I had done the expand thing, and was probably expecting more than that for some reason.

Thanks again for the help.
Old 10th August 2019
  #127
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Have you been turning it off when you create fx return channels?
Go and shift-click the solo button on all your fx channels then it'll work the way you want (but remember to solo tracks not channels).
The reason it works that way is if you solo the channels, then the fx returns will solo, but because other tracks that also use those returns aren't muted, then you'll hear their return as well, obvs.
Ok yeah, that's the feature I was thinking of. I forgot to mention holding the shift button part.

The lack of Samplitude-style freezing is something that can be worked around. Just would be nice and simplify things, IMO.
Old 10th August 2019
  #128
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
Ahh, I see it. I had done the expand thing, and was probably expecting more than that for some reason.

Thanks again for the help.
Any time!
Old 11th August 2019
  #129
I can't figure out why some pieces of audio in the arranger have volume and fade handles, and some don't.

Anyone know why off hand?
Old 11th August 2019
  #130
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Have you merged/glued events?
That creates an audio part that doesn't have handles (I think?!)
Old 11th August 2019
  #131
That could be it.

Thanks. I'll dig for merging in the manual.

Edit: That was it. Doing a bounce cured it. I guess this is more like PT's consolidate.

I guess merge could have it's place if you wanted to go back to it and edit as it originally was.

Thanks again.
Old 12th August 2019
  #132
kdm
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster View Post
How's this Video coming?
Love to see it!

Craig
Hey - I started working on it and got busy with other projects. I will try to get it out this week.
Old 12th August 2019
  #133
Is there an official or best forum for Studio One? I don't want to clog up this thread every time I screw something up, unless you guys just love solving problems
Old 13th August 2019
  #134
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
I can't figure out why some pieces of audio in the arranger have volume and fade handles, and some don't.

Anyone know why off hand?
This is some weird thing with Studio One. You probably used "Glue" on the events. It makes a little icon in the lower left of the clip with a chain and then you can't do anything with it.

What you need to do is actually bounce the clip. That will fix it.

This drove me nuts for a long time before I figured out the answer.

I wish Studio One had a description of what those icons in the lower left mean but they don't. I was on the studio one forum and no one there could me what they meant, either.
Old 13th August 2019
  #135
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
This is some weird thing with Studio One. You probably used "Glue" on the events. It makes a little icon in the lower left of the clip with a chain and then you can't do anything with it.

What you need to do is actually bounce the clip. That will fix it.
I also preferred the default Cubase behaviour, bouncing is a good option in S1 but it does create a new audio file every time you do it which is a bit overkill for just gluing.

I keep the editor window open at a good viewing height - when you merge events they are consolidated in the arrange window but not the editor window.
So you can access them there.

You zoom less too because you can always see events at an editing size even if arrange is fully zoomed out.
If you synchronise the editor to the arrange (button to the right of editor snap and autoscroll buttons) you'll always be where you need to, and the editor follows the arrange zoom (horizontally only).
Old 13th August 2019
  #136
Thanks for the tips guys.

I would love to see a small markers window like PT has. It would really make moving around a lot easier.
Old 13th August 2019
  #137
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
There's a marker track and an arranger track for keeping err.. track of where you are :p

The Inspector gives you a vertical list with names.

There is some strange interplay of section/marker selection and the rest of the arrange window which wreaks havoc with macros.
You have been warned..!

You can see for yourself how you can get locked in to certain GI elements:
Click on the arranger or marker track, and then try to nav down to an audio track using your kb up/down arrows.
You can't.
Even a macro that just says 'go to next track' won't work, it'll just flip between the marker and arranger tracks.
It's taken me ages to get navigation with custom resizing/soloing working perfectly, real brain ache.
Old 13th August 2019
  #138
Thanks.

I do have the marker track set up, but as you zoom in it doesn't do you much good. PT has a little floating window, and you can just click on a marker and you are there, no matter the zoom level. It really is handy.

Edit: I missed this

"The Inspector gives you a vertical list with names."

I'm not finding it, but if it's there that might be what I'm looking for.
Old 13th August 2019
  #139
Gear Nut
 
ianblack8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmission View Post
Thanks.

I do have the marker track set up, but as you zoom in it doesn't do you much good. PT has a little floating window, and you can just click on a marker and you are there, no matter the zoom level. It really is handy.

Edit: I missed this

"The Inspector gives you a vertical list with names."

I'm not finding it, but if it's there that might be what I'm looking for.
Yea I also just figured it out for myself, too. There is an "i" icon on the top left of arrange window. Just open it and then click somewhere within Arranger track (on any section, for example), and it shows the whole list! Don't know if it could be made a floating window like in PT, yet. But seems handy enough.
Attached Thumbnails
PreSonus Studio One vs other DAWs-screenshot-2019-08-13-17.24.53.jpg  
Old 13th August 2019
  #140
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Ah damn, no it only does that for sections, I don't see why it shouldn't switch to a marker window, that's another easy feature request for them to tick off..!

I agree about having more detachable windows, a big plus one on a detachable transport window for example.

When S1 launched a big selling point at the time was being able to work efficiently on a laptop, so it's possible these kinds of 'oversights' are hangovers from that era.

Sections are more powerful because you can write resizing macros for them, I use markers for 'movements' if you like and sections for all the subdivisions of the arrangement, so might have say 15 sections but only 5 markers.
If I need a more dynamic temp marker then I use the Play Start Marker which you can set and toggle on the fly.
Worth checking out, I think it's shift and O/P by default but don't quote me on that as I changed it a while ago..
Old 13th August 2019
  #141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
then I use the Play Start Marker which you can set and toggle on the fly.

Worth checking out, I think it's shift and O/P by default but don't quote me on that as I changed it a while ago..
I did find that today while I was messing around trying to work out a way to simulate the PT markers thing.

I constantly fight with where playback starts, that's a great feature.
Old 13th August 2019
  #142
That set start thing is pretty cool. I made shortcuts for it, and another to toggle it (I initially set S1 to use PT shortcuts). Wish I could somehow do a keyboard shortcut to toggle "Return to start".

* found that if you right click on the timeline, you get a list of markers that you can click to locate. The markers tell you the part name too.


Any of you guys keep turning off snap to grid accidentally? I'm not sure how I'm doing it, but it must be with the kb somehow.
Old 14th August 2019
  #143
Lives for gear
 
Quetz's Avatar
Snap is just 'N' on its own, and you mean you want the sc for toggling return to start on stop?
I've moved that as well but if you go to options then kb shortcuts you can search by commands or keys.

Ps for markers I found the numpad defaults really annoying and changed them so that numpad 1 is marker 1, 2 is 2 etc (removed loop start and end from sequence) up to zero for 10.
Old 14th August 2019
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Snap is just 'N' on its own, and you mean you want the sc for toggling return to start on stop?
I've moved that as well but if you go to options then kb shortcuts you can search by commands or keys.
Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetz View Post
Ps for markers I found the numpad defaults really annoying and changed them so that numpad 1 is marker 1, 2 is 2 etc (removed loop start and end from sequence) up to zero for 10.

Agree. It is annoying starting with 3 the way it does. I will change this also.
Old 14th August 2019
  #145
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlegtplr View Post

Logic also comes with Alchemy and is the only platform you can use it. So I'm kind of hesitate about which way to go next, but I guess I will shuffle for another bit before making a whole shift.

They are both good, just give it a try and use whatever suits you better.
I have Alchemy and can use it in any platform i choose...pre logic version.

Ej
Old 16th August 2019
  #146
Gear Addict
 
Amsoily's Avatar
 

Studio One, Renoise, Reaper, Mixbus 21c and Soundforge.

Great combo and any will stand alone great.

SF is not a Daw but you could edit CSPAN and get tagged as #fakenews and still have believers.
Old 19th August 2019
  #147
Here for the gear
 

I Have S1; Poor CPU, Otherwise Great

I love S1. Very intuitive and well-featured. However, when I run Spectrasonic’s Keyscape on it, it always pops and crackles, even after optimizing said CPU. My computer, PC, is also pretty loaded. ‘Tis a shame. Otherwise, especially coming from Sonar (ugh), S1 is a blessing.
Old 19th August 2019
  #148
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereolab View Post
I love S1. Very intuitive and well-featured. However, when I run Spectrasonic’s Keyscape on it, it always pops and crackles, even after optimizing said CPU. My computer, PC, is also pretty loaded. ‘Tis a shame. Otherwise, especially coming from Sonar (ugh), S1 is a blessing.
I wish we had a monitoring app that could tell us where the bottleneck is when things like that happen. Your processor priority is set to Background Services right? DAWs need that. Then again I'm on Win7 and probably hope S1 works with WINE because I'm sick of Microsoft. Sorry my rant. But hopefully someone knows your bottleneck and get you flying again ASAP
Old 19th August 2019
  #149
Any DAW that you like is the best. They all sound the same, just work-flow and look different.

That said, I have lots of plugins from the biggies (waves, fabfilter, sound toys, UA, etc) and many DAWS blow up when I use a lot of them. No weird plugins, just the big names.
Who blows up? Studio One Three does. Logic Pro X does. Pro Tools 10 I had and it was a bear to work with.

In the end, Reaper for me. Why? Small size, can even be run from a little usb stick. Starts up, every damned time. At most I've had it blow up a handful of times to start perfectly on the reboot. But if I have a project full up, I can always work on it. Not a few times I've had a project in SO3 or LPX and had to port it b/c they would blow up over a used plugin. Never again.

But if you got one you like, and it works under all conditions, then it's the right one. Don't jump all over buying a **** ton of DAWs to "see which is best" it's just a waste of time and money. Many ppl will say "do Pro Tools b/c thats the industry standard". That's bull-****. Whatever DAW you work with, just learn to name & dump the multi-tracks for mixing or stems for mastering so they can be imported into any paid engineers preferred DAW.
Old 6th September 2019
  #150
Lives for gear
 
the donal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by db9091 View Post
Any DAW that you like is the best. They all sound the same, just work-flow and look different.

That said, I have lots of plugins from the biggies (waves, fabfilter, sound toys, UA, etc) and many DAWS blow up when I use a lot of them. No weird plugins, just the big names.
Who blows up? Studio One Three does. Logic Pro X does. Pro Tools 10 I had and it was a bear to work with.

In the end, Reaper for me. Why? Small size, can even be run from a little usb stick. Starts up, every damned time. At most I've had it blow up a handful of times to start perfectly on the reboot. But if I have a project full up, I can always work on it. Not a few times I've had a project in SO3 or LPX and had to port it b/c they would blow up over a used plugin. Never again.

But if you got one you like, and it works under all conditions, then it's the right one. Don't jump all over buying a **** ton of DAWs to "see which is best" it's just a waste of time and money. Many ppl will say "do Pro Tools b/c thats the industry standard". That's bull-****. Whatever DAW you work with, just learn to name & dump the multi-tracks for mixing or stems for mastering so they can be imported into any paid engineers preferred DAW.
And- every time you look at a new DAW, you have to learn things anew. Well- not everything as they share a number of similarities- but getting to know one DAW well is more valuable than trying a load.

That said, I've found Studio One quite easy to get used to.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump