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I saw Cosmos on TV and the narrator's voice quality was all over the place. Dynamics Plugins
Old 17th March 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
"layman approach"?


Sorry, but I take offense to that, and I'm sure so would the man.

I can't speak for Carl Sagan, nor can anyone else, but I don't think he necessarily would object to the term. Aside from being a brilliant researcher, he was an effective communicator of science and cosmology to the general curious public -- i.e. the "layman." That was part of his mission, as I see it. The word "layman" does not have to imply stupidity or cluelessness.

Tyson has the same gift of conveying abstruse concepts to an audience in an accessible way. Both men bring their own style to the task.

I imagine the new generation of this show will bring newly discovered concepts to the table, as well as reviewing the fundamental stuff Sagan discussed. Whether the series "needs" a stylistic makeover for today's audience is a matter of opinion, but if anyone is in the position to make the executive call on that, it's Ann Druyan.

Whether I end up preferring the original or this edition, I think it's great that the material is being presented once again.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
This really has been one of the hardest shows I've had to mix in a long long time.
And it shouldn't be.
I totally get that "that's how the business is," but I agree and sympathize on this point. Of all the shows out there, you'd think one like this could have had the most methodical, well-planned execution in post. "Cosmos" is just about the last show I'd imagine would have to have a chaotic post process.

Still a sweet gig, though....even if it's driving you nuts. Great work.
Old 17th March 2014
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
"layman approach"?


Sorry, but I take offense to that, and I'm sure so would the man.


Why?

Layman - [I]t is often used to mean a person who is not qualified in a given profession or does not have specific knowledge of a subject. (Layperson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people watching Cosmos don't have degrees in cosmology.
Old 17th March 2014
  #63
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
You ARE aware that Anne is very very tightly in control, right? If she's happy with it, then I don't think anybody else has any business criticism the way it's now being presented.
Do you mean Ann Druyan? (No e at the end of Ann). Anyway, because the creator(s) had full control and is happy with it there is no room fro criticism? To me that is just weird thinking.

It did lose my attention quite quickly when I watched the first episode. A bit too OTT and gimmicky at times for my taste. Maybe I'm too used to watching all the big BBC productions. Or maybe I was just not in the right mood at the time...

Alistair
Old 17th March 2014
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post

It did lose my attention quite quickly when I watched the first episode. A bit too OTT and gimmicky at times for my taste.

Alistair

Thanks for stating more succinctly what I was **trying** to say!

And this tendency goes for way more shows than just "Cosmos". Most remakes of nearly everything nowadays is too flashy and gimmicky nowadays.


OTT?
Old 17th March 2014
  #65
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
OTT?
Over The Top.

Alistair
Old 17th March 2014
  #66
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Over The Top.

Alistair
Yes.
Lets get back to discussing how bad it sounds.
Old 17th March 2014
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Over The Top.

Alistair
Thank You!(20th century)

TY(21st)


Yes, very over the top. Again, My issue is not with the host, and I'm sure there are audio issues. My issue remains "why a remake in the first place?"
Old 17th March 2014
  #68
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Thank You!(20th century)

TY(21st)


Yes, very over the top. Again, My issue is not with the host, and I'm sure there are audio issues. My issue remains "why a remake in the first place?"
LOL!

Rather than a remake, a sequel would have been more appropriate in my view. Adding on, reviewing since it has been so long, but remakes are by definition (to me) purely for profit, not altruistic.

Now if it had been PBS rather than Fox, (dream on!).
Old 17th March 2014
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
LOL!

Rather than a remake, a sequel would have been more appropriate in my view. Adding on, reviewing since it has been so long, but remakes are by definition (to me) purely for profit, not altruistic.

Now if it had been PBS rather than Fox, (dream on!).
Yeah, Fox isn't exactly Mensa territory, if you know what I mean.
Old 17th March 2014
  #70
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loujudson's Avatar
Another comment on the layman term - Sagan was proud to be able (supremely so) to couch his thoughts in terms anyone could understand ("Bilions and billions" though he denied saying that precisely), which is a very valuable thing, and sorely lacking in today's anti-science times. It is valuable to be able to popularize deep thoughts.

Just think about Contact, and the fine film they made of that... with just the right touch of special effects. I'd HATE to see a remake of that! :-) maybe ten years down the road...
Old 17th March 2014
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
...Or maybe I was just not in the right mood at the time...

Alistair
Right mood = Stoned (According to Seth Macfarlane on Bill Maher.)
Old 18th March 2014
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Yeah, Fox isn't exactly Mensa territory, if you know what I mean.
Then it's probably a good idea to try to teach some science to Fox viewers.
Old 18th March 2014
  #73
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loujudson's Avatar
Somewhere I read that some station in Kansas edited out the part mentioning evolution...
Old 18th March 2014
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Somewhere I read that some station in Kansas edited out the part mentioning evolution...
There was like 15 seconds that got chopped off (for everyone not just Kansas), but Fox said it was an accident and apparently the 2nd episode has a bit about evolution, though I haven't watched the 2nd episode yet, so if they don't chop that I'd trust it was just an error.
Old 18th March 2014
  #75
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMPF View Post
There was like 15 seconds that got chopped off (for everyone not just Kansas), but Fox said it was an accident and apparently the 2nd episode has a bit about evolution, though I haven't watched the 2nd episode yet, so if they don't chop that I'd trust it was just an error.
No. It was just Oklahoma affiliate.
Old 18th March 2014
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
No. It was just Oklahoma affiliate.
Oh, interesting. Seth MacFarlane had mentioned it on Real Time, only reason I said anything. Probably shouldn't have
Old 18th March 2014
  #77
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loujudson's Avatar
Thanks for the correction.
Old 18th March 2014
  #78
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Thanks for the correction.
Like the video store owner in Utah who chopped out most of the beginning of "Saving Private Ryan."

Interviewer: "So you're taking a stand on graphic content?"

Store guy: "Naw, it's just way too long."
Old 18th March 2014
  #79
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Fajita's Avatar
"Layman's terms" are becoming more necessary in science. My wife works in science outreach, which is turning their jargon into english for the masses. If you have ever been to a scientific poster session or any place where a large group of physicists, chemists, botanists, or hell any other kinds of "ists" are talking amongst themselves, there is definitely a language that they understand, and we don't. We meaning the rest of the world that doesn't have the depth of knowledge on the subject. If COSMOS was all science-y, would you watch it? Probably not. Television is entertainment. If you want all the non-layman true science stuff, sit through one of the many lectures these experts give at universities. You will feel drunk by the time it's over.

Hell, even Sir David Attenborough's shows are "dumbed down" for the sake of making them more for the masses.

Hench, you did an amazing job within the time constraints and with what sounded like nightmarish materials. BRAVO!
Old 18th March 2014
  #80
I saw the original and I liked it. I am watching the "sequel" and I like it as well. Different times and different expectations for content. I understand there were a couple of churches around here that "suggested" there congregations NOT watch it because of the references to "creationist theory" and "evolution". One church told their members not to watch it for all the statements about how old the world and universe are. The EBS ran a test right in the middle of the first one and cut out about a minute of time. Why can't the EBS run their tests a 2 am instead of at 9:30 pm on a Sunday night??? Oh well...to all involved NICE JOB! with the seguel...
Old 18th March 2014
  #81
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Mark- I just wanted to echo the comments that its great for you to spend time here discussing the work....


you are a true professional.


I cant wait to see the series!


Charles
Old 19th March 2014
  #82
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+1

Also, I think the people who are critiquing the show conceptually on a thread where the mixer is involved and is actively providing useful information are being very ignorant.

Whilst I am a dyed-in-the-wool console fan and Henchman is an ITB zealot I'm still getting a lot from this thread, thanks for not rising to the bait Henchman! Keep the insights coming..
Old 19th March 2014
  #83
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londonengineer View Post
for not rising to the bait Henchman! Keep the insights coming..
Must be old age setting in.
Old 19th March 2014
  #84
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by londonengineer View Post
+1

Also, I think the people who are critiquing the show conceptually on a thread where the mixer is involved and is actively providing useful information are being very ignorant.

Whilst I am a dyed-in-the-wool console fan and Henchman is an ITB zealot I'm still getting a lot from this thread, thanks for not rising to the bait Henchman! Keep the insights coming..
We are discussing the program, and we have opinions. The flash an editing and sound effects are part of that!

The mixer is providing good information and conversation, but I don't hear him complaining or being offended... Are you, Henchman? I got the feeling you agree a little. You're a better man than I to be able to deal with all the pace both in content and production schedule!
Old 19th March 2014
  #85
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Henchman's Avatar
Not offended at all.

But I do love the new version.
I grew up watching documentaries like Cosmos, Jacques Cousteau, 7 ups etc.
And I understand that the slower pace of documentaries back then, simply will not hold the attention span of today's kids as well as young adults. They simpy, don't have the patience.

That's why this new version is perfect for this day and age.
It's got the information with pizzazz, special effects, the whole nine yards.
Old 19th March 2014
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Not offended at all.

But I do love the new version.
I grew up watching documentaries like Cosmos, Jacques Cousteau, 7 ups etc.
And I understand that the slower pace of documentaries back then, simply will not hold the attention span of today's kids as well as young adults. They simpy, don't have the patience.

That's why this new version is perfect for this day and age.
It's got the information with pizzazz, special effects, the whole nine yards.

And someone seriously needs to study why attention spans are shorter today.

Can't blame evolution for that!


to the original Novas, Cosmos, and National Geographics!
Old 19th March 2014
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMPF View Post
but Fox said it was an accident

Sure Fox, sure!!

We Abridge. You Decide.
Old 19th March 2014
  #88
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
The EBS ran a test right in the middle of the first one and cut out about a minute of time. Why can't the EBS run their tests a 2 am instead of at 9:30 pm on a Sunday night???
It is a requirement to not run EBS test's at the same time all the time. It was probably randomly scheduled in advance for the whole year. More sophisticated systems can be integrated with the playout automation to insure programs and more importantly, advertisements are not interrupted. of course by interupting the program they can bill another 30 seconds of ad time.......
Old 19th March 2014
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
And someone seriously needs to study why attention spans are shorter today.

Can't blame evolution for that!


to the original Novas, Cosmos, and National Geographics!
I think its a requirement now that if a TV show poses a question during a programme, it has to answer it in less time than it'd take for me to google the answer.

And I think that's the main thing about how people digest TV now, we have a great international resource for research and information... on our phones! I think the reason it needs to be newer, shinier, faster and flashier is because:

People can absorb information much faster now. We're getting information handed to us faster and faster on TV and elsewhere.

Producers, Directors, and us have new toys, of course we're going to play with them and make whizz-bang effects. (This is the 'because we can' argument).

The TV/video market is a LOT more crowded, something really needs to be all-guns-blazing to stand out when you have goodness-knows how many TV channels, plus Hulu/Netflix/Youtube etc. competing for viewers as well.

I don't agree it's about attention span nowadays, now excuse me as I have to chase a squirrel.
Old 19th March 2014
  #90
The "next " generation is all about multitasking. I see students at the local college walking down the street with one earbud in their ear, a cell phone held to their other ear and talking with friends as they walk down the sidewalk. It has been estimated that over 90% of the student here don't have TVs or access to one and do all their watching on line. They say it is because they do not want to watch all the commercials on regular TV and I can sympathize with them.

Look at a typical newscast today. There are all kinds of flashy graphics, a scroll at the bottom of the picture and one across the top and school closing below the crawl on the bottom of the screen. There is also the logo for the network in the bottom right corner and maybe another insert with the local station's logo and time. Just reading all of that is hard for me to do but I guess it is the new thing in TV. I also see the same commercial over and over and over again maybe running three times in a 3 minute commercial break. Advertiser are really trying to hammer their messages home to their intended audiences.

Everything has become more and more flashy. Go to a Cleveland Indian's game or a Cavalier's game and you are bombarded with all kinds of advertising messages on the flashing signs that surround the ball park or arena. Also there is constant audio going on to "rev up" the fans. Maybe people have become so overwhelmed with advertising messages they just turn them all off. I know I usually shut down my senses when I am watching TV and a commercial comes on. I am not sure of the exact number but I have been told that a one hour TV show is actually only 39 to 42 minutes long - the rest is all commercials.

Strange world we live in today with everyone competing for our time and our senses.

When I go camping in Canada it takes me about two days to relax and listen to nature and open up my sense to the world around me. Sometmes it is hard to come back to reality.
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