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I saw Cosmos on TV and the narrator's voice quality was all over the place. Dynamics Plugins
Old 14th March 2014
  #31
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48volts's Avatar
 

Hey Mark
I know what you mean about the dialogue track being recorded everywhere. I mix (your work) cosmos promos up here in Canada.
The show is now airing on Global. You can tell dialogue was recorded at multiple locations but all in all you did a great job. Everything sits really nice.
Neil degrasse tyson has such a great voice to work with. I love how animated he is.
The sound design is awesome too! So pass that along to Rick.
Old 14th March 2014
  #32
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Mark, I was just ribbing you! BTW, I feel your pain. On my shows, I often get lines recorded on the talent's iPhone to mix in to the interview footage. That's the thing about doc style mixing. It's mostly audio triage. Most of my mix time is spent fixing poorly recorded dialog. Not a lot of time to be creative.
Old 14th March 2014
  #33
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By any chance did we get to hear the recordings of Ann Druyan's brainwaves during the callout to the gold record on Voyager? That's absolutely the most romantic story I've ever heard.
Old 14th March 2014
  #34
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundboy View Post
Mark, I was just ribbing you! BTW, I feel your pain. On my shows, I often get lines recorded on the talent's iPhone to mix in to the interview footage. That's the thing about doc style mixing. It's mostly audio triage. Most of my mix time is spent fixing poorly recorded dialog. Not a lot of time to be creative.
Yeah. Yo got that right. More fixing than mixing.

But I have to give a lot of props to both. Rick steel, and my Fx Mixer Joel Catalan. They are getting the majority of the burden to carry.
Old 14th March 2014
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
That's all done by our sound designer rick steel.
My mix partner Joel has a tough job to get through it all.
So how many people are working on it (post sound) in total and what are their duties and hours?
Old 14th March 2014
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
So how many people are working on it (post sound) in total and what are their duties and hours?
We have a dialog editor, sound designer and two mixers.
Dialog I thinks gets 3 days. Our sound designer has been getting final picture sometimes a day before the mix.
Old 14th March 2014
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Our sound designer has been getting final picture sometimes a day before the mix.


This is Cosmos. Not a hang and bang reality show. That's ridiculous.
Old 14th March 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranerd View Post


This is Cosmos. Not a hang and bang reality show. That's ridiculous.
Agreed, but they did a great job regardless!
Old 14th March 2014
  #39
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soundboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paranerd View Post


This is Cosmos. Not a hang and bang reality show. That's ridiculous.
A dialog editor, fx editor, and 2 mixers is not hang and bang by any stretch of the imagination. 10 hours from opening the pic editor's AAF, to play through, for a 42 minute show is reality hang and bang. Cosmos is defnitely not that.
Old 14th March 2014
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundboy View Post
A dialog editor, fx editor, and 2 mixers is not hang and bang by any stretch of the imagination. 10 hours from opening the pic editor's AAF, to play through, for a 42 minute show is reality hang and bang. Cosmos is defnitely not that.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.
Old 14th March 2014
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundboy View Post
A dialog editor, fx editor, and 2 mixers is not hang and bang by any stretch of the imagination. 10 hours from opening the pic editor's AAF, to play through, for a 42 minute show is reality hang and bang. Cosmos is defnitely not that.
Yes, good point and hyperbole from my end. I just thought that a series like Cosmos would deserve to have time to try things out for more than a day.

Quote:
Agreed, but they did a great job regardless!
And this too! It certainly didn't seem to suffer from the little time given.
Old 14th March 2014
  #42
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It's likely the Sound Designer didn't start from scratch and complete the job in a day, but rather had previous discussions with the Director/Producers about what they were looking for and accordingly built a set of sounds prior to seeing anything resembling a Final Cut. Then once the edit came to him he spotted his "exploding star" sound that had been pre-built. Some sounds worked right off other had to be shortened/lengthened.

At least that's how I would approach the job.
Old 15th March 2014
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathand View Post
It's likely the Sound Designer didn't start from scratch and complete the job in a day, but rather had previous discussions with the Director/Producers about what they were looking for and accordingly built a set of sounds prior to seeing anything resembling a Final Cut. Then once the edit came to him he spotted his "exploding star" sound that had been pre-built. Some sounds worked right off other had to be shortened/lengthened.

At least that's how I would approach the job.
Ah, if only. He has been getting stuff, that is completely different than what used to be there, a day before the mix.
Old 15th March 2014
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Ah, if only. He has been getting stuff, that is completely different than what used to be there, a day before the mix.
i'm on board w/ the other guy...1 day to do sound design on something like this...is heroic.

i thought your team's dialog was outstanding given what you've said.

marty.
Old 15th March 2014
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty lester View Post
i'm on board w/ the other guy...1 day to do sound design on something like this...is heroic.

i thought your team's dialog was outstanding given what you've said.

marty.
Don't get me wrong. He doesn't do ALL the sound design in one day.
But he is really pulling rabbits out of a hat on a daily basis with this show.
And he just started doing the new season of "Falling Skies" as well.
Old 16th March 2014
  #46
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Premiered on the Dutch NGC just now (sundaynight). It's plain old stereo here in Holland, so I'm listening to a downmix. Good show, congratulations on your mix and such a high profile job Mark, shame to hear about the amount of hours you could spend.

Couple of things I noticed and I just mention them for the sake of discussion. There's seems to be remarkably little difference in character between VO and his 'on camera' dialogue - even outside- and both sound a bit "doctored" to me. It's almost as if a very slow phaser is used on his voice. Could be some kind of downmix artifact (i don't hear any "wider than stereo" LtRt surround panning, so it could be a rogue downmix from the channel).

The low end of his voice is also unusual for me, did you use VOG on this? Could also be I moved the furniture around and my tv is now in a corner, haha. I didn't notice this on the voices during the animations btw. But I also have the feeling this guy's voice just has some quirks. I once spend half an hour searching the cause of distortion I heard during VO recording. It was in her voice ( now that's a quirk ;-)
Old 16th March 2014
  #47
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Neil DeGrasse & Carl Sagan were close acquaintances during the time of the original Cosmos, which is likely a reason why he was picked to host the remake.

He does good within the format of said remake, and, as with remakes of so many other TV shows and movies, my issue is frankly with the concept of the remake itself, and not with casting or technical quality.


My issue? Remaking "Cosmos" was unnecessary. The original stands for all time.
Younger audiences wouldn't "get it"? Boloney - they're smarter than they're made out to be.
Old 17th March 2014
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
My issue? Remaking "Cosmos" was unnecessary. The original stands for all time.
Younger audiences wouldn't "get it"? Boloney - they're smarter than they're made out to be.
Actually, DeGrasse pointed out in an interview that we have a lot more knowledge now than we did at the time of the original's making. If I remember correctly, at the time of the original series we knew of the existence of no planets outside of our solar system, and now NASA just found another 700+ of them!

The original was fantastic, but we know more now and it makes sense to update the show.
Old 17th March 2014
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Actually, DeGrasse pointed out in an interview that we have a lot more knowledge now than we did at the time of the original's making. If I remember correctly, at the time of the original series we knew of the existence of no planets outside of our solar system, and now NASA just found another 700+ of them!

The original was fantastic, but we know more now and it makes sense to update the show.

Well, they could have stayed truer to the format of the original.
Old 17th March 2014
  #50
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And of course without mind-blowing special effects, rapid-fire editing with short lived, fast teeny-tiny shots and loud noises it wouldn't reach the younger audiences spoiled by MTV anyway!

Space is a stately, slow paced thing on the order of eons, and they had to tart it up to lickety-split action footage like "gravity" and Speed.

I have only seen the trailer and it made me tired! :-)
Old 17th March 2014
  #51
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pethenis View Post
Premiered on the Dutch NGC just now (sundaynight). It's plain old stereo here in Holland, so I'm listening to a downmix. Good show, congratulations on your mix and such a high profile job Mark, shame to hear about the amount of hours you could spend.

Couple of things I noticed and I just mention them for the sake of discussion. There's seems to be remarkably little difference in character between VO and his 'on camera' dialogue - even outside- and both sound a bit "doctored" to me. It's almost as if a very slow phaser is used on his voice. Could be some kind of downmix artifact (i don't hear any "wider than stereo" LtRt surround panning, so it could be a rogue downmix from the channel).

The low end of his voice is also unusual for me, did you use VOG on this? Could also be I moved the furniture around and my tv is now in a corner, haha. I didn't notice this on the voices during the animations btw. But I also have the feeling this guy's voice just has some quirks. I once spend half an hour searching the cause of distortion I heard during VO recording. It was in her voice ( now that's a quirk ;-)
No phasing being used. I think it just be artifacting in the stereo broadcast.
On the VO I added VOG. I intentionally wanted it to sound bigger than life.
But nine was added on the prosuction. Neil already has a big voice when he is talking at a normal level. When he get loude, he gets quite midrangey. And I have been asked specifically by the AP and Anne herself to make it not sound that way. So, I have to spend a lot of time dealing with that as well. On top of everything else.

I was told before the first mix, that the dialog was rough. I thought they might be exaggerating.

They weren't.
Old 17th March 2014
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Younger audiences wouldn't "get it"? Boloney - they're smarter than they're made out to be.
They just lack the attention span.
Hence the fast pace of ten show and all ten CGI ETC.
Old 17th March 2014
  #53
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
Well, they could have stayed truer to the format of the original.
Maybe they should have done it in mono and black and white as well.


You ARE aware that Anne is very very tightly in control, right?
If she's happy with it, then I don't think anybody else has any business criticism the way it's now being presented.
Old 17th March 2014
  #54
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Henchman's Avatar
But it's not all bad.
Getting to mix Alan's score is awesome.
Old 17th March 2014
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Maybe they should have done it in mono and black and white as well.


You ARE aware that Anne is very very tightly in control, right?
If she's happy with it, then I don't think anybody else has any business criticism the way it's now being presented.
You don't get it. This new Cosmos seems dumbed-down to me, that's all.


Anne his former spouse, I presume.


Hench, I'm culturally verrrry conservative. Once works of art, architecture, whatever, are committed to completion, they should be left alone, I feel. Our collective brain-count should be used to create new ideas for song, television, the movies, and printed art, instead of remakes, covers, and re-dos(remasters) of original works.


Taken a look at the Empire State Bldg. at night lately? It's awesome! New LED arrays have replaced bulky floods and spots that the building staff had to go out and change for every holiday or occasion, wind, rain, snow, bird-poop, sleet, etc. Now the lights change with a few mouseclicks from inside a cozy office somewhere inside the building, and they probably have smart-phone override in case something happens when no body's there.

And what effect has this new lighting had on the daytime appearance of the ESB? NONE. A classic makeover if ever I saw one. NO visible alteration of the building's exterior.

How all remasters should be.

Digitally restore ol' Carl's series and reissue it. I comprehended it at 11 years old, the young uns will get it today.
Old 17th March 2014
  #56
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
You don't get it. This new Cosmos seems dumbed-down to me, that's all.


Anne his former spouse, I presume.


Hench, I'm culturally verrrry conservative. Once works of art, architecture, whatever, are committed to completion, they should be left alone, I feel. Our collective brain-count should be used to create new ideas for song, television, the movies, and printed art, instead of remakes, covers, and re-dos(remasters) of original works.


Taken a look at the Empire State Bldg. at night lately? It's awesome! New LED arrays have replaced bulky floods and spots that the building staff had to go out and change for every holiday or occasion, wind, rain, snow, bird-poop, sleet, etc. Now the lights change with a few mouseclicks from inside a cozy office somewhere inside the building, and they probably have smart-phone override in case something happens when no body's there.

And what effect has this new lighting had on the daytime appearance of the ESB? NONE. A classic makeover if ever I saw one. NO visible alteration of the building's exterior.

How all remasters should be.

Digitally restore ol' Carl's series and reissue it. I comprehended it at 11 years old, the young uns will get it today.
I understand your point, but this is a science show first and a work of art second. Like mattiasnyc mentioned, things have changed a lot in cosmology, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, etc. since the original series. There's really no harm in revisiting Sagan's layman approach to teaching people science with the available tools and information we have today.
Old 17th March 2014
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranerd View Post
I understand your point, but this is a science show first and a work of art second. Like mattiasnyc mentioned, things have changed a lot in cosmology, astronomy, astrophysics, biology, etc. since the original series. There's really no harm in revisiting Sagan's layman approach to teaching people science with the available tools and information we have today.
"layman approach"?


Sorry, but I take offense to that, and I'm sure so would the man.
Old 17th March 2014
  #58
Henchman,

I saw the second episode last night. Very nicely done. The one question I have is the segment around the "tree of life" seemed to be edited together from many different takes. Some sounded GREAT some sounded like they had been eq'd differently and some had a trace of ambiance like they were recorded in a bigger space and some sounded like they were recorded out of doors with no ambiance??? Just wondering why all the differences??? Thanks in advance. Keep up the GREAT work!
Old 17th March 2014
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Henchman,

I saw the second episode last night. Very nicely done. The one question I have is the segment around the "tree of life" seemed to be edited together from many different takes. Some sounded GREAT some sounded like they had been eq'd differently and some had a trace of ambiance like they were recorded in a bigger space and some sounded like they were recorded out of doors with no ambiance??? Just wondering why all the differences??? Thanks in advance. Keep up the GREAT work!
All of the above.
An day intro of the show as reconfromed after the mix as well, with extra ADR to make,it work that was recorded god knows where.
Old 17th March 2014
  #60
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Henchman's Avatar
This really has been one of the hardest shows I've had to mix in a long long time.
And it shouldn't be.
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