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Most Hollywood movies use location sound? Modular Synthesizers
Old 9th March 2014
  #31
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Noisy tracks are rarely the fault of any decent to good location sound recordist. The chosen place to shoot the picture and the angle from where its shot is based on the picture, and never (maybe once in a blue moon) on what sounds best.

Some good directors and producers see the value of including the location sound recordist on scouting. If this would be done more often and the sound folks being listened to then more films would have the possibility of sounding better than they do today.

But crappy sounding lavs placed in a bad rustling position, off axis booms, badly handled levels, not carpeting unseen floors or gravel pathways, not dampening problematic areas and messed up metadata is.
This is where a good location sound team shows the real difference.

Noisy clothes and jewelry sometimes not included.
But a really good location guy would have known, argued against them and when placed in a situation where he knew he had to deal with it, talk sweetly to the costume dept to make as many sound improving changes as time and budget would allow.

The noise in the tracks that's where we in post come in.
Old 9th March 2014
  #32
Erik,

you are absolutely right! in the short span of time I've been in this industry god knows how many times I wished the producers/ directors consulted me or the location sound guy before the shoot. when you have a bad location, not matter how good is the sound guy is, you end up with crap and it needs fixing.
Including the sound team in recce can't do any harm but saving the producers from spending lots of money on ADR or extra post hours. So you say if you got bad location sound its your job to fix it? Yes is the answer, but if I'm contracted for lets say 200 hours on a project doing both dialogue and editing, would it be best to use all this time on sound design or half of it on fixing the bad location sound?
Old 9th March 2014
  #33
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You try to spend the time as wisely as you can.
200hrs is some five weeks (8hr days). What you do with those five weeks is to do whatever the film needs. If the dialog is a mess you spend more time fixing dia then editing other sounds.
But five weeks to do what? A TV episode, a full cinema feature, animation?
The type of work will dictate what you can and/or need to do.
Spend as much time on sound design as you can without making the craft or the film suffer. For some projects that will mean very little sound design and mostly hard grunt work.

I think it was Randy Thom who said "My ego comes pre-shrunk".
I like that quote.
Old 10th March 2014
  #34
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Just watched "All is Lost" on Blu-Ray. Terrific picture, excellent sound with lots of very effective surround. The film didn't have more than about 15 words in it, so I chuckled a little when I noticed several ADR editors listed in the closing credits.

To be fair, though, I know Redford did a ton of breathing and effort stuff which probably accounted for most of it.
Old 10th March 2014
  #35
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I watched it to. I thought it was pretty darn awful personally. But opinions are like behinds...
Crappy shooting and editing. Clearly the film makers didn't have any sailing out at sea experience whatsoever, making the result utterly unrealistic.
I did like how they USED sound in the story telling. But the sounds and images weren't very coherent and definetly not believable in many ways.

As for believable acting: He does everything wrong, has bad timing with pretty much everything he does, clearly does not have any proper emergency plans and reacts weirdly in most situations.
And almost always handles the boat very strangely.

I know, and understand that most that aren't sailors will have no idea what I mean.
But for all sailors all over the works it will stand out as a really bad sailing film.

As for the actual acting, I found it quite weird that he only says one word iirc inside the boat for more than half the film. When things go wrong in real life, you curse, mutter, talk to yourself to remind you of what to do etc. weird choice IMHO.
Also the blank look on his face didn't at all give the impression I think they were after as a seasoned sailor, but rather as a stupid, ignorant, non-caring, non-sailor.
Old 10th March 2014
  #36
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nzl62's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
As for the actual acting, I found it quite weird that he only says one word iirc inside the boat for more than half the film. When things go wrong in real life, you curse, mutter, talk to yourself to remind you of what to do etc. weird choice IMHO.
I found this to be the case in There Will Be Blood. The conscious decision to avoid dialogue and all human vocalizations seemed completely contrived
Rest of the film was terrific though so all was forgiven by then end
Old 10th March 2014
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
But five weeks to do what? A TV episode, a full cinema feature, animation?
The type of work will dictate what you can and/or need to do.

I think it was Randy Thom who said "My ego comes pre-shrunk".
I like that quote.
Full audio post for a feature. That includes dialogue editing and mixing, sound editing and re-recording. We set 5 weeks because most of the production tracks sounded very bad and I am creating all the fx, foley, etc from scratch. No budget for ADR. But if there was one, it had to be a big one as a lot of stuff are in very bad condition.
Luckily cedar is giving me a copy of DNS to try out and I think this would save me a lot when it comes to mixing.

P.S I like that quote too!
Old 10th March 2014
  #38
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Five weeks in total for a feature? Man that's crazy.
Where in the world are you where they try to do that?
Is five weeks normal for a feature?

Or do you mean five calendar weeks with multiple editors?
Old 10th March 2014
  #39
Five weeks in total for a 90 mins feature, me and two dialogue editors. You saying this is too long or not enough time?

This is the my first feature so I'm learning!

Sepehr
Old 10th March 2014
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepehr View Post
Five weeks in total for a 90 mins feature, me and two dialogue editors. You saying this is too long or not enough time?

This is the my first feature so I'm learning!

Sepehr
It's a little tight, especially if you're doing SFX, foley and mixing, but doable. It depends on how much detail the client wants in the sound design I suppose. It would be three weeks of editing and then two weeks of mix?
Old 10th March 2014
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepehr View Post
....in the short span of time I've been in this industry god knows how many times I wished the producers/ directors consulted me or the location sound guy before the shoot...
Even after logging a good deal of time in the business, you may find yourself continuing to wish for this, only to see that it happens pretty rarely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
I watched ["All Is Lost"] to. I thought it was pretty darn awful personally. But opinions are like behinds...

...I know, and understand that most that aren't sailors will have no idea what I mean.
But for all sailors all over the works it will stand out as a really bad sailing film.....
Not as bad as "Wind."
Old 10th March 2014
  #42
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Fajita's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Don't underestimate the value of a god dialog re-recording mixer.
Some productions sound good in spite of the location sound guy.
totally!

Old 11th March 2014
  #43
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Uncle Bob's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kei_siuip View Post
I know this question may be weird, but my boss insists that most Hollywood movies don't use locational sound, they use ADR. However, I don't think so, cause every time I go to theaters I can hear location noise from dialogue, also the 'jump' to ADR is so obvious!!
I'll make a few points to put things in context for you.

1. "Hollywood" has lots of money to put into their films.
2. "Hollywood" hires the best production sound folks in the business.
3. "Hollywood" production sound professionals get the absolute best production dialog possible under the given circumstances.
4. "Hollywood" hires the best dialog editors in the business.
5. "Hollywood" hires the best rerecording mixers in the business.

All of these folks do everything that they can to keep the production dialog which is usually the most satisfying performance emotionally.

Much of the production material - film and audio - is vetted before the production is wrapped. Immediately, or very soon, after production wraps the actors are brought in to do ADR for every place in the film that may have the remotest hint of a possibility of a problem. So, yes, at the mega-budget "Hollywood" level there is a lot of ADR done, to a large degree as a safety net. It's cheaper to do it all at once instead of calling the talent back over and over again. So, although they may record a lot of ADR, they do not necessarily use it. The dialog editors and rerecording mixers have lots of talent, skill and experience as well as some truly amazing tools that can salvage a very large percentage of seemingly hopeless production sound tracks.

As others have mentioned some genres will require more ADR than others - action/adventure films that require lots of practical on-set stunts and effects, for example - and lower budget films and other filmmaking "cultures" do indeed use lots of ADR. But nothing beats the on-set performance, which is why "Hollywood" expends so much time and effort to keep the production dialog.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepehr View Post
Five weeks in total for a 90 mins feature, me and two dialogue editors. You saying this is too long or not enough time?
I'm a "one-man-band" audio post facility for indie types. A full, complete, "soup-to-nuts" audio post (dialog edit, Foley, sound effects [custom and library], music/score spot/edit, and mix) takes me five (5) to nine (9) hours of work per linear minute. So, for your 90 minute feature, thats 450 to 810 hours worth of work. I foresee lots of 20 hour days ahead for you and your team.
Old 28th March 2014
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Just watched "All is Lost" on Blu-Ray. Terrific picture, excellent sound with lots of very effective surround. The film didn't have more than about 15 words in it, so I chuckled a little when I noticed several ADR editors listed in the closing credits.

To be fair, though, I know Redford did a ton of breathing and effort stuff which probably accounted for most of it.
Sometimes even Oscars are handed to production sound mixers even though there's not single line (or just a few) of what they recorded in the movie.

Did they ever hand one to an ADR-mixer or dialogue editor?
Old 1st April 2014
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
And Russia, as well...
... and Germany...
Old 3rd April 2014
  #46
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarproducer View Post
I just finished watching American Hustle and to me it sounded like completely location sound apart from, obviously, the voiceover parts. Then I check the credits and I see 4 ADR mixers credited..They surely did a good job.
ADR mixer is the engineer who recorded the actor. Not necessarily who did the matching. The re-recording mixer is usually responsible for a good or bad ADR match.
Old 3rd April 2014
  #47
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
ADR mixer is the engineer who recorded the actor. Not necessarily who did the matching. The re-recording mixer is usually responsible for a good or bad ADR match.
Absolutely, when I wrote "they" I was referring to the re recording mixer, although not clear from my post.
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