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Waves WLM, EBU R-128 and short term levels
Old 26th March 2013
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Waves WLM, EBU R-128 and short term levels

Hi,

Is there any recommendations for short term levels in r-128 specs as long as peaks are under -1dbfs and long term averages at -23LUFS? I didn´t find any, but Waves WLM has "short max" set at -18LUFS in all r-128 presets..

Thanks.
Old 26th March 2013
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

The -18 LUFS "short max" in your meter sounds like a general guideline relative to -23 LUFS Program Loudness as recommended by Waves. Is the Short Term Loudness detailed in your delivery specs?

By the way - how do you like that meter?

-paul.
Old 27th March 2013
  #3
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Thanks Paul,

So far I haven´t seen anyone mentioning short term max in delivery specs, they just refer to R-128. I was just wondering in general if it´s allowed to go over -18 LUFS for short time.

EBU metering is relatively new thing here, and WLM is my first and only meter for this. So I can´t compare to others. But so far I have no complaints!
Old 29th March 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 
audionuma's Avatar
 

Hello,
the French delivery specs for programs whose duration is under 2 minutes requires that the maximum short-term must be less than or equal to -20 LUFS.
Old 14th January 2017
  #5
007
Lives for gear
 
007's Avatar
 

On a related note...

Can someone explain the difference between the short-term and momentary readings in WLM?
My sound mix is aiming for -24 LUFS for the duration of the program, with an acceptable 2dB +/- margin.
I'm mostly focusing on the short-term reading, yet the "momentary" reading often shows a much higher value, sometimes 10+ dB higher.
Should I be concerned when I see that reading if my short-term loudness reading is relatively on target?

Thanks so much, still learning all this stuff.
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Waves WLM, EBU R-128 and short term levels-screen-shot-2017-01-14-6.45.52-pm.png  
Old 14th January 2017
  #6
Gear Addict
The short term is reading a sliding window of 3 seconds. The momentary is reading a sliding window of 400ms so it will average a bit louder.
I wouldn't worry unless it has a momentary max written into your delivery spec. I have yet to see one that does.
Old 14th January 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
On a related note...

Can someone explain the difference between the short-term and momentary readings in WLM?
My sound mix is aiming for -24 LUFS for the duration of the program, with an acceptable 2dB +/- margin.
I'm mostly focusing on the short-term reading, yet the "momentary" reading often shows a much higher value, sometimes 10+ dB higher.
Should I be concerned when I see that reading if my short-term loudness reading is relatively on target?
The difference as far as I know is the integration window of the ballistics of the meters. I think the momentary is in the 400ms range whereas short term is around 3000ms. I'm not 100% sure that the algorithms are exactly the same for the momentary measurement, they could be, I honestly can't recall.

In practical terms though what I do is obviously use long term as a means to verify that I'm to spec. Momentary is pretty much irrelevant if you know your monitoring system and simply 'understand' or 'feel' when things are loud. I look at 'momentary' as being in the moment, what is happening 'now'. I almost never look at it though.

Short term can be useful to see where you are within a short section of your content. So if I'm mixing and I allow for dynamic range within the program I might every now and then take a look at that value to see where I'm at, especially if I'm getting tired. It's basically convenient to look at and compare with what you recall you've done for the past minute or so and then put that in context with the entire program. If you think a louder section is warranted and your short term is reading -20 then it's possibly pretty loud. Obviously at some point that needs to be compensated for in order to reach -24, so you could if you wanted to keep that in mind. But mostly I mix by ear and looking at the longer term value every now and then.

Short term can certainly be of even more use though if the aesthetic is less dynamics, because if you keep an eye on short term and keep that very close to -24 then your range is going to get a lot narrower (probably). In one sense I suppose one could say that if you got each of those to ride exactly at -24 at any given time the dynamic range would be much much narrower the faster the meter reading is, with momentary being very very flat, short term being very compressed, and long term potentially quite dynamic.
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