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mixing for web
Old 19th November 2012
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
mixing for web

Hello,

I need to mix a series of episodes for a web series (4 minutes episodes), that will be seen by the majority of people on laptop or computer speakers. do you have any advice on mixing?

I think to place a L2 Maximizer on the master channel in order to make the mixes really loud, do you reckon is a good a idea to mix on a maximizer or would you put it when the mix is finished.
I think it is quite pointless for this application to put emphasis on bass, do you agree?

Thanks!
Old 19th November 2012
  #2
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NYCruiser's Avatar
I would high pass around 50hz for sure. Also make sure to monitor on built in comp speakers while mixing, then check on a set of consumer external comp speakers.
Old 19th November 2012
  #3
Gear nut
 

I've done this a couple of times, just a last minute, thrown together mix - this is not the area I normally work in so I'm sure others will chime in later.

I simply mixed the whole thing in mono and high passed everything at 100Hz, I then put an L1 maximiser on the master channel with around -4dB of GR.

Sounded acceptable to my ears!
Old 19th November 2012
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Jussi's Avatar
Mix it like you would for broadcast,. Then it will work accross the board and doesnt sound awful for people who use actual speakers and headphones.
Old 19th November 2012
  #5
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Mix it like you would for broadcast,. Then it will work accross the board and doesnt sound awful for people who use actual speakers and headphones.
-2dbtp / -16lufs

broadcast levels varies and seems too low for me, is it ok?
Old 19th November 2012
  #6
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danijel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebbo View Post
-2dbtp / -16lufs
I think you will be good with this. And, depending on the filter, cutting at 100Hz might be too high. I'd cut gently at 50, like someone suggested.
Old 19th November 2012
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Jussi's Avatar
Yeah I didnt mean level-wise, you can chuck the ceiling as high or low as you want. What I meant is to avoid using any 'tricks' to make it sound 'better' thru built/in speakers.
Old 19th November 2012
  #8
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Don't cut lower than for broadcast. Not mono either.

Remember that a lot of people have a gaming speaker set connected. With sub.

Mix it like broadcast.
Old 19th November 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Mix it like you would for broadcast
+1, after many hundreds of webisodes for different clients.

One problem with mixing on computer speakers (or TV speakers) is
every small speaker sounds different. So if you compensate for the ones in your mix studio, chances are you'll be messing things up for many of the users.

The other problem, which kicks in even if you're mixing on consistent Awfultones or NS10s, is you can miss important stuff.

I would suggest you compress the dialog stem separately, as well as the overall mix. And listen through the full chain of compression/limiting when you mix. Remember: people often hear these with a lot of aural competition in the room... often even worse than typical TV listening.
Old 19th November 2012
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Yeah, what they said. Most of my broadcast spots and interstitials end up on the web in one form or another, and the broadcast mix translates perfectly fine. If you are worried about levels, don't be. How often do you manually adjust the volume when browsing?? CONSTANTLY, yes? That said, I absolutely can't stand it when someone has crushed their mix to CD levels for the web, and I get blown off my arse.
Old 19th November 2012
  #11
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NReichman's Avatar
 

FWIW, I have a Mac mini in my living room connected to big speakers and a big Sony television. If my kids come across your content on the web, they'll hear it in full bandwidth stereo, just as they would the DVDs and iTunes movies that they watch.
Old 19th November 2012
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Jussi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundfx View Post
That said, I absolutely can't stand it when someone has crushed their mix to CD levels for the web, and I get blown off my arse.
I limit to -6dBfs usually.
Old 19th November 2012
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebbo View Post
-2dbtp / -16lufs

broadcast levels varies and seems too low for me, is it ok?
+1, this is pretty much how I've mixed web content for the last year. First, I mix the show as normal at reference level, getting me loudness values around -23 LKFS and limiting at -10. I then do a final mix pass with the limiter output set at -2, which will usually land me in the -14 to -16 LKFS range. This is nice as I can always adjust the limiter output for other formats without having to remix the entire thing.
Old 20th November 2012
  #14
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Henchman's Avatar
Yep. Must like any broadcast show.
I mixed both of the Kony 2012 web docs this year, the exact same way I mix drama series.
And they translated just fine.
Old 20th November 2012
  #15
Gear Head
 
Lion73's Avatar
 

Hi

More and more I get asked for a web mix as well as a broadcast mix and clients ask for it to be louder "like the BBC iPlayer". I mix as if for broadcast and then set up a print bus for web that consists of an aux with a trim and a limiter and aimed it -2dbfs then out to a print track, bit of a cheat I know but client was happy and I can mix in my normal way. I have this bus setup saved so that I can import it when I need to, it has come in really handy when the clients after the fact have asked for a web mix, I print one for them gratis and explain that it is not an authentic mix for web and if that they want one I can do a proper mix for a fee of course!

As an after thought does anyone know about the levels on the BBC iPlayer cos it sure does smash out louder that everything else?
Old 23rd November 2012
  #16
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huub's Avatar
For live to internet broadcasts, usually the broadcast mix is sent out.
If the streaming is done from location, I usually make the internet output a few dBs louder, because there is no need to mix to broadcast specs for internet, and I've had clients requesting a louder mix (because someones uncle or whatever texts the producer the sound is too low on his laptop speakers).
however, even R128 mixes sound fine on Youtube.
Old 28th November 2012
  #17
Limit dynamic range.

Don't worry about sync.
Old 28th November 2012
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Kris75's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Fleischman View Post
Limit dynamic range.

Don't worry about sync.
Hahhha! That's awesome!
Old 13th May 2013
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
When you send your final mix how do you deal with dithering?
the final delivery format when you mix for web is going to be 16bit, the Avid session the editor is working on is 24bit/48khz and when he will do the final export he will make the audio 16bit.
Do I have to apply dithering for 16bit even if he is going to import the file at 24bit and I am going to provide him a 24bit file?
Thanks
Old 13th May 2013
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebbo View Post
When you send your final mix how do you deal with dithering?
the final delivery format when you mix for web is going to be 16bit, the Avid session the editor is working on is 24bit/48khz and when he will do the final export he will make the audio 16bit.
Do I have to apply dithering for 16bit even if he is going to import the file at 24bit and I am going to provide him a 24bit file?
Thanks
In all honesty I wouldn't lose any sleep about this, it'll also be encoded into AAC or MP3 for web broadcast. so you're not going to gain much, if anything at all, from dithering about about dithering.
Old 13th May 2013
  #21
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsSka View Post
In all honesty I wouldn't lose any sleep about this, it'll also be encoded into AAC or MP3 for web broadcast. so you're not going to gain much, if anything at all, from dithering about about dithering.
this
Old 13th May 2013
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsSka View Post
In all honesty I wouldn't lose any sleep about this, it'll also be encoded into AAC or MP3 for web broadcast. so you're not going to gain much, if anything at all, from dithering about about dithering.
I know it is quite irrelevant in the contest of lossy compression / cheap laptop speakers / people browsing youporn while watching the video
my question was mainly out of curiosity
Old 14th May 2013
  #23
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huub's Avatar
Most if not all material for broadcast has a higher noise level than any dither noise (backgroundnoise and what not).
So effectively, there's auto-dither
Old 14th May 2013
  #24
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NReichman's Avatar
 

Quote:
When you send your final mix how do you deal with dithering?
the final delivery format when you mix for web is going to be 16bit, the Avid session the editor is working on is 24bit/48khz and when he will do the final export he will make the audio 16bit.
Do I have to apply dithering for 16bit even if he is going to import the file at 24bit and I am going to provide him a 24bit file?
Thanks
Just to clarify here, I've noticed with my ears that AAC files made from 24-bit mixes sound better than coming from 16-bit. Apple has confirmed this with their "Mastered for iTunes" guidelines (a well-encoded AAC pulls 24-bit PCM data in). Keep all your PCM files at 24-bit- especially the ones you give the Avid editor. 16-bit is so 1996...
Old 14th May 2013
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Most if not all material for broadcast has a higher noise level than any dither noise (backgroundnoise and what not).
So effectively, there's auto-dither
Brilliantly put
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